Author Topic: Lots of NW - Cant seem to fix it.(BT ADVICE FOR TONIGHT PLEASE)  (Read 9101 times)

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Offline Eva's Mummy

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I really could just cry. It gets to BT and I'm dreading it. We started pushing her A time out 2 weeks ago as she was only on 2.5hrs so we really needed to move a bit. Now I am spending night after night early evening and early morning over her cot trying to get her to sleep just crying as I'm so tired. Sometimes the NW's are brief bust mostly the morning ones are between 1-3 hours sometimes she is chatty sometimes she is crying really hard. The only way I can get her to sleep is if I hold and rock her standing up but that will just give me another 30mins to a hour then she is up again. I've been getting help from Fleur but we are both a bit stumped as nothing seems to help the NW's. I don't even know now if she is OT or UT. Any help would be receive very gratefully from a very tired mummy.

Here is what our last few days have been like.

25.4.15

WU 8:03
A 3hrs 13mins
S 11:16 - 12:40 (1hr 24mins)
A 2hrs 50mins
S 15:30 - 16:11 (41mins)
A 2hrs 20mins
BT 18:31
NW 19:30, 21:00, 1:50,2:45

26.4.15

WU 6:44
A 3hrs
S 9:44 - 11:50 (2hr 6mins)
A 3hrs 2mins
S 14:52 - 15:22 (29mins)
A 2hrs 42mins
BT 18:10
NW 22:00, 3:50-5:30+

27.4.15

WU 7:33
A 2hrs 58mins
S 10:31 - 11:37 (1hr 6mins)
A 3hrs 20mins
S 14:57 - 15:36 (41mins)
A 2hrs 50mins
BT 18:26
NW 20:30, 21:30, 2:10, 3:10

28.4.15

WU 5:30
A 3hrs
S 8:30 -
« Last Edit: May 26, 2015, 17:41:09 pm by Eva's Mummy »


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Offline jessmum46

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Re: Lots of NW - Cant seem to fix it.
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2015, 10:47:02 am »
Hugs lovely, sleep deprivation sucks big time! 

I would say she looks rather OT right now.  Does she give good sleepy cues?  She's HSN right?  Can you shorten up her first A for a day or two, perhaps just put her down as soon as she looks like she might go?  She probably does need the 3h+ A time but I wonder if maybe she just accumulated some OT in the push from 2.5h and needs to catch up a bit?

If she was any other LO I'd probably say push A times a bit more but knowing how much sleep she was getting previously I would rule out OT first. 

Also, just a thought but how much intervening do you think you are doing vs how much you really need to do at night iykwim?  I only ask because she's your second LO and I fell into a bit of AP with DS at NWs because I wanted my rest to cope with DD, and also because I didn't want DD woken.  I wonder if she's only settling with rocking whether she may have slightly come to depend on that (our issue was habit feeding despite IS at bedtime) to resettle, even though she *can* do it herself?  How would you feel about just leaving her be if she is not crying hard, and if she is maybe instead of trying to make her sleep, just being with her while she does it herself?  I sat on the floor next to DSs crib in the end for an hour and a half while he cried and yelled and got cross trying to settle.  But he did eventually do it and that really helped I think.  At least I felt I knew then that any wakings were definitely routine related (unless they were teeth....and we have ten of those already.....) and it ruled out some sort of prop.  I may be way off but it took me forever to realise we had a prop/dependence going on as he was IS at bedtime and nap and would at times self-settle NWs just fine. 

Hugs Hun x

Offline Eva's Mummy

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Re: Lots of NW - Cant seem to fix it.
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2015, 13:01:10 pm »
Thank you so much honey.

Does she give good sleepy cues?

Not really, this morning she was rubbing her eyes at 2hrs which I expected after a 5:30 WU but I kept he up 3hrs and I woke her after 2hrs (not sure if I should have let her sleep).

She's HSN right?

I would say so she used to do 14.5hr nights and still 4.5hrs during the day sometimes more.

Also, just a thought but how much intervening do you think you are doing vs how much you really need to do at night iykwim?

I'm not sure, for naps I usually just put her in her sleeping bag in my room, give her a little cuddle, carry her into her room lie her down and leave. She will have a quiet moan and play with her blankie then fall asleep. She also has a dummy.

At BT as soon as I leave she starts crying, (occassionaly she does the same as naps but not so much recently). I try to lay a hand on her chest and rub her head which works at BT but not during the night, she wants picked up then. I guess I'm trying to get her to sleep before she gets really OT then it takes me ages to get her down. I'm always rushing to get her to sleep before DH brings DD1 home, when she is in she keeps running in and out of the room waking her up or screaming/crying for me at the stair gate.


How would you feel about just leaving her be if she is not crying hard, and if she is maybe instead of trying to make her sleep, just being with her while she does it herself?  I sat on the floor next to DSs crib in the end for an hour and a half while he cried and yelled and got cross trying to settle.

How long would you leave it, I imagine she might have cried for the full 3hrs last week (but maybe not). You said he cried and yelled, how do you know when that escalates to hard crying. Do you mean like when she gets herself really upset and she start coughing and sobbing proper tears?

I guess I might manage that, it will be so hard leaving her though. I have never left either of then to cry. So would that just prove that she can go to sleep herself?


Can you shorten up her first A for a day or two, perhaps just put her down as soon as she looks like she might go?

This morning was:

WU 5:30
A 2hrs 56mins
S 8:26 - 10:26 (2hrs)
A 2hrs 53mins
S 13:19 - 14:46 (1hr 27mins)

**What would you do about the times of CN / BT, I'm guessing I will need a CN to try to get a later WU tomorrow then start from there?**

So if I pull back the first A to say 2hrs 45min again, what would you do for the next 1? I feel scared puling back but I guess I'm having horrible nights as it is, so what's the difference!

I was always under the impression that long NW were UT and ENW were OT so I couldn't decide what to do?
« Last Edit: April 28, 2015, 13:48:42 pm by Eva's Mummy »


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Offline Eva's Mummy

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Re: Lots of NW - Cant seem to fix it.
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2015, 17:33:10 pm »
What a disaster, I feel depressed already as I know what the night will hold for me.

Last A before bed was 3hrs 26mins!!!

I was aiming for 2hrs 45min (maybe that's too much) as soon as I put her in her sleeping bag the tears started. When I walked into her room (dark with white noise) she just got uncontrollable with full blown sobbing, arching her back, trying to sit up wouldn't lie back in my arms. When I lay her down she just moved it up a notch.

So I took her out to calm her down and tried again once she stopped crying. Thankfully DH just got home form work and took DD1 out as she just makes it worse.  I ended up holding her and rocking her to sleep, when I lie her down she woke up but she was sleepy enough to let me rub her head and lay a hand on her then she went to sleep in a couple of mins.

I don't know how i'm going to manage tomorrow as DH is working until 8pm, I cant even fathom how i'll get her to sleep with DD1 around, she just runs in and out (even with I leave her fun things to do) she is ok for a little while but when I take too long she's had enough of waiting. She sits on the rocking chair and thinks she is being helpful by singing twinkle twinkle little star (louder, then louder, then louder) but as soon as DD2 hear her she is looking for her.

Anyway sorry 6 million question in my last post never mind this one, sorry. Just feel like my head is going to explode  :'(



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Offline weaver

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Re: Lots of NW - Cant seem to fix it.
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2015, 20:13:26 pm »
Hi hun, just some coping suggestions for tomorrow - if you have a sling, can you put DD2 in there for that last part of the evening? I'm thinking she might chill out/drop off and save you some hassle.  Does she have a lovey? 

For DD1, do you have headphones? Would she listen to a story or some music on there? Would that keep her quiet for you for a bit?  Suggesting that LO2 is about the same age and was transfixed today by headphones with Peter and the Wolf. 

In the end it might be easiest to manipulate things (if you can) so that DD1 goes down first.  That worked here for a good while!

BT can be an utter nightmare! Hugs! You'll get it sorted.
*Anne*, loving mama to a honeybee (2010) and a sweetpea (2012).  BF for 4 proud years.


Offline Eva's Mummy

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Re: Lots of NW - Cant seem to fix it.
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2015, 07:48:12 am »
Not sure if im doing the wrong thing. But last night went like this

BT 6:12
NW 20:15
NW 22:00
NW 00:05 then every 30mins
so at 2:50 I took her into the spare room as so as I lay her down and I lay down she was out for the count. She cried a little bit now and again but went back to sleep without me saying anything or touching her.

I transferred her back to her cot at 4:30,then I heard her again at 5:40but she put herself back to sleep and she is still sleeping now. I would usually wake her at 7:30 but I thought maybe this will help her catch up if she is really OT.

But now I'm not sure what to do with the day. Do I push the 1st A time to 3hrs 15? 


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Offline Eva's Mummy

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Re: Lots of NW - Cant seem to fix it.
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2015, 07:58:04 am »
Thanks Weaver they are really good ideas. I do have an ergo baby carrier but I have never used it, I will practise with it today. I like the headphones idea, what do you play it through (your phone?)

I am kind of hoping I can get DD1 down first tonight, she is at the CM's today so sometimes she doesn't nap long there so i can get away with it.I put her down at 6 the other night and she woke at 5:40  ::)but at leat I got them to bed and the fact DD2 is still sleeping makes me hopeful. Unless of course all this sleep means I cant get he to nap today  ::)


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Offline jessmum46

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Re: Lots of NW - Cant seem to fix it.
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2015, 09:48:56 am »
I hope I didn't confuse with my suggestions above, I'm in no way suggesting any type of CIO/'leaving to cry' if LO genuinely needs you :-* and I would never tell you to go against your mummy instinct.  But just that some LOs really can make a heck of a noise but not actually be full-on desperate for your help.  If DS is struggling to settle he is very loud and will be tossing and turning, but my presence really doesn't help, if anything my going in tends to escalate things - though obviously I always go in if I hear things turn from 'I'm mad I'm not asleep' to 'I'm in pain' or 'I am really upset now'.

Do you think you tried to put her down too soon for bed?  We get mad full-on screaming and resistance when UT.....she'd had two good naps, I'm wondering if she fought you hard because she actually wasn't ready to sleep?  Then got herself OT in the process?

That said, that many NWs......discomfort?  We don't get nights *that* bad just from OT..... 

Can DD1 watch TV while you get DD2 down?  iPad?  Terrible mother I know ::) but this is what I do with DD if DS needs to go down first and DH isn't home.  Otherwise if they are going down at same time it goes:

Brush DDs teeth and get her into bath
Brush DSs teeth
DS into bath with DD
One of them out (usually DD) - pyjamas on
Other one out - pyjamas on (I get DD to go choose her stories while I dress DS)
Into DDs room - sit on her bed reading stories while I feed DS
Take DD with me to put DS down - she has the 'special job' of switching his light off
Close DSs door, take DD to toilet
DD into bed

Or if I can, DS goes down later than DD and just potters around the floor while I do DDs routine.

Where do things go wrong in your routine?  Can we help?

Offline weaver

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Re: Lots of NW - Cant seem to fix it.
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2015, 10:05:50 am »
Yes LO2 was listening on my phone. We downloaded some free music :)
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Offline Eva's Mummy

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Re: Lots of NW - Cant seem to fix it.
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2015, 10:19:05 am »
I know you would never suggest CIO Katherine, I have a feeling I might make things worse going in as she does get louder when she seems me. Maybe she is just loud, im so used to DD1 not making a peep or if she did it was just a quiet moan. DD2 never used to do this but maybe that's because I had her A times right that she didn't need to.

I also think I'm maybe trying to put her down too early as she does protest a heck of a lot.

Do you think it was ok to let her sleep that long today, I woke her at 9. Should I try push the first A today then assuming she`s caught up (I think).

I guess it could be discomfort we have 2 bottom teeth, 1 front top, 1 front eye tooth and the other eye tooth is just beginning to show. I am medicating calpol and ibrupen at times just to make sure and medication at some NW but it doesn't seem to help and her NW's have been like this for coming on 3 weeks now.

What kind of routine do you think we should be aiming for?

DD1 will watch TV for a little while but she is very spirited and wont sit still for more than a few mins. I have even stripped her popped her in the shower with a full bottle of shaving foam which she loved but she still came running in doors slamming, screaming for me to hurry up then singing at the top of her voice to "help get DD2 to sleep"


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Offline Eva's Mummy

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Re: Lots of NW - Cant seem to fix it.
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2015, 10:59:01 am »
Downloading some music just now. Where did you get your audio books from?

Well this girl is stumping me. After doing a long night, she was starting to get grouchy at 2.5hrs, by 2hrs 45min she was crying and rubbing her eyes so straight up the stairs and asleep at 2hrs 50mins??

I thought she would have been up longer, but then she still  might short nap as it was a shorter A, or maybe i've just been keeping her up too long?


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Offline jessmum46

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Re: Lots of NW - Cant seem to fix it.
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2015, 11:10:16 am »
It was an unsettled night though wasn't it?  DS will happily go down after 3-3.5h at nearly 11 months after a bad night.  Are you sure she isn't coming down with something??  Just thinking what happens here....

Offline Eva's Mummy

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Re: Lots of NW - Cant seem to fix it.
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2015, 11:18:33 am »
Yeah but it wasn't as bad as usual since I brought her in with Mr.  Would you always reduce first a after an unsettled night. I've not been so maybe that's been contributing to the OT.

It's always the second nap she moans a bit about  then usually does a 40 min nap.  Then BT is a big protest, cries as soon as the sleeping bag comes out.

She has a cough and a cold but she's had that for weeks and weeks now.



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Offline jessmum46

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Re: Lots of NW - Cant seem to fix it.
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2015, 11:40:42 am »
If it was very unsettled yes I'd have to reduce A, probably following cues but getting close-ish to normal say within 15 mins.

Does she wake from second nap happy?

Offline Eva's Mummy

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Re: Lots of NW - Cant seem to fix it.
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2015, 11:53:09 am »
She generally always wakes happy x


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