2.5mo try shh/pat but get an overtired baby falling asleep in arm?

[Icepack]

Hello! I just started shh/pat on my 10 week old Lo yesterday for both naps n night, and came across many questions.

she used to be shh/pat n rocked in arm to sleep and then transfered to crib. Now I try put her into crib directly after the 2nd or 3rd yawn. But she'll just lie there quietly for 10-20min, then fuss, then in about 10 min it goes to a degree that cannot be calmed by shh/pat in the crib, so I'll pick her up. She'll still fight several times, and eventually before I feel she's calm enough to be put to crib again, she falls asleep in my arm.

I didnt want her to lose the nap so I usually decides to pick her up and calm after 20 min or so unsuccessful shh/pat in the crib and let her falls asleep in arm if she looks overtired in the process (sucking my neck, rubbing face against my shoulder, fight, etc). For night, she'll resist sleep for 1 hr then it's time to feed and she falls asleep on breast.

My question is --
1) will she develops the habit that she'll resist sleep until been picked up after the long shh/pat? I don't know if she'll smart enough to figure out there will be a pickup lies ahead if she keeps fighting, and make a leverage...
2) shall I first make her drowsy in my arm, then put her onto crib n shh/pat? But it's very hard to catch the window. Many times she'll keep fuss then fall asleep immediately after a fight, leaving me no time to put her down. Or, I got the window, she was in the crib and shh/pat went well, then she suddenly started fuss again and I'll have to pick her up.
3) I am trying to avoid over stimulating her so I limit the practice to 20 min, then calm and let her sleep whatever method she likes. Shall I push her harder?

Look forward to any advices n ideas, thank you!

Ps..we are on 3 hr EASY starting 7 am for the day, but she never falls asleep at 7 pm, usually 8-9 pm.

[newkidontheblock]

Hello and welcome
Could you post a day's routine in EASY format, hun? That will help me to answer your queries:)

[Icepack]

Thanks for your reply!

The routine is 3 hr easy:

WU: 6-6.30 am (she always start to have bowl movement this time of the day, nothing can move it to later time)
E: 7am
A: till 8 am
S: around 8.10 am (1-1.5 hr, need intervention to achieve this length)

E: 10 am
A: till around 11:am
S: falls asleep around 11:20 am (1.5 hr, need intervention)

E: 1 pm
A: till around 2:10 pm
S: falls asleep around 2:30 pm (1-1.5 hr, also need intervention)

E: 4 pm
A: depends, sometimes till 5:20
S: 20 min - 50 min nap between 5 pm and 6 pm

the above routine has been established for over 1 week. but below is just started for 2 days:

E: 6 pm
A: bath around 6:30 pm
S: try put her to bed at 7 pm, but rarely succeed, so between 7-8 pm is just wind down and trying shh/pat

E: 8 pm
S: falls asleep between 8.30 -9 pm either by nursing or by holding in arm

Haven't started the DF yet, still trying to figure out her night pattern.

During the day, once she falls asleep she can sleep through one cycle, but hardly into the next cycle.

Today for the noon nap, I tried to put her down into the crib when drowsy but awake, then put a hand over her eyes and pat on her back. It worked! She fell asleep! Perhaps I should start with this before putting her directly into the crib while wide awake? I'll keep trying this.
 

[newkidontheblock]

Perhaps I should start with this before putting her directly into the crib while wide awake? I'll keep trying this.
 

Yes, exactly right:) Your routine looks great, hun. I know it might seem like you need to help a lot but she is just learning how to sleep. If you stick to that routine and are consistent, soon she will be able to transition on her own without any intervention:) I was going to tell you exactly what you figured out yourself - when baby falls asleep in your arms, they tend to pop awake the moment they are put down as suddenly all the warmth and comfort is taken away. It is best to do your wind down, hold till drowsy and then put down awake and leave the room, giving her time to settle. You can come back and pat or shush or anything if she starts crying for you but otherwise give her space to try and settle. If she learns to go to sleep independently, then it will help through the transitions also.

You mention that she doesn't fall asleep at night till 8. What time does the CN normally end? Do you have a good night time sleep routine in place too? It is important to get good sleep associations in place when starting out. Do you swaddle? A swaddle & white noise works wonders for sleep:)

[Icepack]

Thank you! Now I'm feeling much more confident. One question about intervention: shall I do it once she shows a sign of transition but not yet cry or wake up, or wait until she cries and indeed wakes up? Would the latter disturb the continuity of sleep? I've been sitting besides the crib during her sleep all the time and preparing for intervention all the time...

For night--

The last CN usually ends around 6 pm. Then feed. But she doesn't eat that much at this feed (Maybe only half of a full feed? I count the time as I'm breastfeeding).

We swaddle for naps but not nights -- use halo sleepsack instead because at some restless nights she would fuss n move around in crib (yes with her legs kicking), so I want to give her hand a little mobility so that she could adjust a bit if she bumps into crib bumper or sth else.

The night routine is bath, put on sleepsack, play with dad for a few minutes, then there used to be nursing to sleep with music, but I'm thinking of changing it, so now it's just bath, sleepsack, dad and trying to put her to sleep.  She has habitual NW, I also hope teaching her to sleep on her own would help with that.

[newkidontheblock]

shall I do it once she shows a sign of transition but not yet cry or wake up, or wait until she cries and indeed wakes up? Would the latter disturb the continuity of sleep? I've been sitting besides the crib during her sleep all the time and preparing for intervention all the time...

Intervene only if you hear an 'I need you' cry. Otherwise you risk waking her up more/ preventing her from transitioning. Do you have a monitor? Maybe you could watch on that instead of sitting by her crib? It is really best to give them space to settle. Sometimes my DD would wake, chat to herself for ages but eventually fall back asleep. If she saw me or I intervened, that wouldn't have happened. It is important to S.L.O.W down before reacting - Stop, Listen, Observe, Figure out what's up.

Your bedtime routine sounds ok. May I suggest keeping the playing with dad to before bath maybe? Maybe daddy could read her a bedtime story instead as a part of the routine? They are so easily stimulated at this age and it is vital to keep things calm & relaxed before sleep. We had a similar routine. I would split the feed around bath, so feed - bath/massage - feed - song & hold till drowsy - PD in crib and leave room.