Author Topic: dreadful bedtime with 31 month old (Read 4127 times)

Clairehv · « **on:** May 02, 2015, 06:48:11 am »

Hi
I am writing to ask for some advice which is all I think I am doing at the moment.
5-6 weeks ago we had a daughter who 95% of the time enjoyed bathtime and went to sleep on her own after a story and bottle and slept 12 hours 7_7am+

Since then we have had a period of chicken pox which really disrupted things for two weeks and probably age related but extremely clingy to me

We made a decision to finally knock the bottle of milk on the head two weeks ago and she was upset about that for 3 nights but doesn't ask for it now.

However we are now in a situation where everything just seems a battle and it is taking up to 1.5hours for her to settle once in her cot.

Her routine has,always been bath, story on my knee in her bedroom and then into cot.
She now resists going upstairs to bath. If we can get her into the bath without tears it is nice. She does enjoy bath but then sometimes she refuses to get out, which then if we lift her out results in hysterics which then doesn't set us up well for the,rest of bedtime. She sometimes let's us brush her teeth other times she fights it.
Into bedroom, pjs on (regardless of crying!!) More often is fine for this.

Then I sit in the chair and she will sit on my knee for a,story. Sometimes we don't even get through 2 pages and then she climbs off. Sometimes tries to climb in cot other times messes about in room.
I would love to read her a whole story and have a nice relaxed time.
Once in cot I switch light off say I love you night night and then since the pox am in a,situation where I sit on the chair and hold her hand.
Then she will either lie there but restless or mess about, under duvet sitting up and down, asking for milk, food saying she wants a wee wee (which I do get potty for) really just constant procrastination.
I tell her mummy only sitting if Eliza is going to sleep so I leave the room. She usually after a few mins shouts,for me and is lying down but wants,my hand again.

So she is not going to sleep until 8pm or later.
It is,even worse for DH the evenings I go to the gym, she will fight him, run and hide and basically be hysterical until I get home, often 8.30pm!
The nights,I am away for work she knows I am not there at,all so she normally settles for him by 8.30pm
We are at the end of our tether, we just don't get any evening at all.

We,have been nap capping but to be honest whether she has 30 mins or 1.5 hrs it doesn't make any difference.
She is waking now nearer 6am, and has circles under her eyes
Her typical day now is
WU- 6am-6.30am
Nap 12.45am-2pm.(doesn't resist going for a nap at all)
Supper and cartoon 10 mins :6pm
Quiet play/story
6.20pm up to bathroom
6.40 out of bath, teeth, into bedroom dressed
Story-ideally.
7pm into cot
Messing around/sleep resistance
8pm ish falls,asleep holding hand

I really don't want her going to sleep like this every night, I have even tried to read her a 'special' story when in the cot and that doesn't help.

Sorry for the lengthy post.
Advice appreciated

MasynSpencerElliotte · « **Reply #1 on:** May 03, 2015, 18:41:54 pm »

I wonder if she needs her nap capped a bit? Although she is also at a half birthday so developmental stuff could be at play. Tbh I would read the stories to her while she flits about - my older two still have trouble sitting through an entire book if they aren't doing the reading, and when they were that age for sure not! Is there minimal stuff to play with in her room?

Clairehv · « **Reply #2 on:** May 04, 2015, 19:39:58 pm »

Hi
We have capped her nap to less than 1 hour. She hates being woken up and I think would easily sleep 1.5hrs but will persevere with it.
Last night's night waking was so two hour stint, with 3 sits on potty, so hard not to allow that when she says she wants a wee. She fell asleep at 4.30am.
Woke up at 7.30am
Nap today in car 1.10pm-2pm

Tonight is not going well.
Hysterics as she would not get out of bath voluntarily. Forced tooth brushing
Crying through pjs on
Did calm for 1 story.
Into cot 7pm
I tried to sit on floor but that sent her hysterical, so stood by door.
7.05 said needed wee, lifted onto potty. No wee, last cuddle into cot.
Lay down but just kept moving about and saying not want you to stand by door.
I just occasionally say 'night night sleepy time's
7.20pm 'need wee wee mummy - repeatedly
Lifted onto potty. No wee, back into cot.
Throwing lovies out of cot. Replaced silently, returned to door.
Lots of noise in cot, ignored but she had crawled to foot end of cot and was getting under duvet there. I ignored.

7.40 banging on cot sides eventually standing up saying 'cot broken's
I quietly said its sleepy time lie down at pillow end.
Crying started again. Would not lie down.
8pm I eventually quietly said Mummy tired, mummy going to bed. Let me know when you are ready to sleep and mummy stand by door.
Stood outside door, waited for messing about to stop.
E was sitting on top of duvet, asking for me.
Went in said night night sleepy time, lie down now
'Me not lie down
Ok mummy go to bed'
I will stand at door when you lie down to sleep.
8.20 got herself under duvet and lay down.
8.30pm I am at the door and she appears to be asleep.

I realise I haven't done true GW but she was completely procrastinating and messing about with me in there.

Well as it work tomorrow fingers crossed for a decent night.

Thanks for the support
X
Claire

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MasynSpencerElliotte · « **Reply #3 on:** May 05, 2015, 06:16:11 am »

Sounds like a mix of wi/wo there which can work well too. Hard to know when she asks to pee if it is just stalling or true need! What type of a sleeper has she been - high sleep needs or average? My kids all hated being woken from naps but for me it was necessary to keep bedtime at a decent time.

Clairehv · « **Reply #4 on:** May 05, 2015, 10:24:59 am »

Hi
She has always been a higher sleep needs child TBH however I will stick with the 1 hour nap and the implementation of GW WI/WO as appropriate and then assess.

She did sleep all night and had to be woken at 7.20am (poor thing must be exhausted after all that last night)

I can't see this is going to be a quick fix but hopefully by next week we will have our IS back and ideally asleep before 7.30pm.

Thanks for the continued support, it is really affecting DH and I as it is so upsetting and frustrating isn't it when all we want to provide for her is a happy calm bedtime.

K-JDA · « **Reply #5 on:** May 05, 2015, 11:38:16 am »

You are doing fab Claire! Having been there myself I know how hard it is but hopefully by next week or even before you will have made some significant progress and bedtime will be a much more happy experience for you all. Big hugs!

Clairehv · « **Reply #6 on:** May 05, 2015, 21:18:35 pm »

Hi
The childminder capped her nap today
12.45-13.45

Bathtime resistance again and then getting herself worked up afterwards 'saying' want mummy to hold my hand.
Did story, light off last big cuddles,and kisses and night night to stand by door.
Into cot 7pm.
Messed around, crying, demanding me sit down, wanting daddy the usual.
If she stood up I calmly said I was leaving room, then would go back in when she lay down.
Finally asleep by 8 10
I think she was exhausted actually.

Will keep going with it.
X

MasynSpencerElliotte · « **Reply #7 on:** May 06, 2015, 03:51:32 am »

(((Hugs))) it gets tough when they are stubborn toddlers! My older two both had a bath hating phase so we did sponge baths or I bathed with them to get them through it. Although part of it may be she realizes bedtime is coming soon and she doesn't want that!

K-JDA · « **Reply #8 on:** May 06, 2015, 06:16:30 am »

We have swapped to a bath every other day as it just turned into a battle ground and was affecting BT.
Well done on the SS - you will get there and it will get easier!

Clairehv · « **Reply #9 on:** May 06, 2015, 15:22:47 pm »

Thank you
Just as a comedy interlude, I never thought I would be a mum who took her daughter to childcare naked, but that was where we were at in our house this morning!!
Complete tantrum and hysterics, over getting dressed- after 20 mins I just had enough so calmly told her she was going in no clothes and off we went!!.
Anyway of course she got dressed for the childminder perfectly as soon as we were there!

problem is I am not sure she was bothered..... lets hope she doesn't expect that every day

2 hours until i start the bath /bedtime drama again. hey ho

Haribo2012 · « **Reply #10 on:** May 06, 2015, 15:29:10 pm »

Just chipping in suggest maybe a shower if you have one? We had a lot of this behaviour at that age and still do get it if DS tired.

Smiling at the lets go naked!!

best move you could make, no point in arguing over it I say x

Clairehv · « **Reply #11 on:** May 06, 2015, 18:37:10 pm »

3 nights in and just no seeming improvement at all in her settling to sleep.
She gets,out of her duvet and crawls to the foot of the cot and then gets under it from that end and just messes about.
I am not reacting and just trying to ignore the behaviour.
The last two nights she has gone to sleep eventually through exhaustion but am I teaching IS?
Will the messing around decrease eventually?
I knew this wouldn't be easy but I thought I may see time reduction to less than an hour?
She had a nap 12.45-1.45 and resisted getting up..

Clairehv · « **Reply #12 on:** May 08, 2015, 18:36:27 pm »

Hi
So I am feeling a bit disillusioned, she is just so unhappy going to bed.
I hate the fact we don't have anything resembling a nice bedtime
Last night she was asleep by 8pm again but went through the same bedtime battle.
Refusing to get out the bath seems to set off the tone, from refusing to go into bedroom etc which then results in me having to carry in which sets of hysterics.

Tonight I think she is OT however the hysterics are just ridiculous
Nap 11.45-12.45 (car)
Bath at 6pm she is tired.
Out teeth clean and then a minor stand off about going to her bedroom.
But got her in, then she refused to put her pyjama top on!
She is now 30 mins into a major meltdown. Just doesn't want to be in her cot.
Got so hysterical that I did pick her up and try and calm her down and that didn't really work as she was just fighting to get off my knee.
She is back in her cot, hysterical. It's horrendous, I think she is so OT she is past it now......
Ok I picked her up I couldn't bear that she was so hysterical and standing up.
She cried for another 30 mins in my arms until she settled enough for me to lay her in the cot.
Asleep at 7 35pm

So think I can safely say tonight was a,'fail' and also that she really does need a nap.

Will resume the GW tomorrow.
Any ideas on how to try and make the bedtime routine nice again or is it a case of just trying to get through this 'phase'. 8 weeks since I remember a nice happy goodnight kiss

Haribo2012 · « **Reply #13 on:** May 08, 2015, 18:49:28 pm »

Oh dear hugs to u both sounds tough.

Could u do the bath maybe 15 mins earlier then get dressed in maybe your bedroom and a story there, then move to her room? Talk about choosing a book that's in her room and then reading it in there?
DS had a phase of not wanting to go in his room so we just did a different routine for a few weeks then it passed. x

Clairehv · « **Reply #14 on:** May 08, 2015, 21:28:20 pm »

Hi Zoe,
Thank you, yes maybe is time to try something slightly different before actually she goes into the cot just to reset things.
Thanks for the suggestion
Claire x

Haribo2012 · « **Reply #15 on:** May 09, 2015, 05:55:54 am »

We also played games with DS cuddly bed toys, like peeking round the corner of the cot then whispering sleepy things to mummy then DS.
Hope you get a better BT x

K-JDA · « **Reply #16 on:** May 09, 2015, 06:06:55 am »

Our bedtime routine involves all sorts of games and stuff - hide and seek, rolling on the floor into sleeping bag, flying into bed, stories on the floor all over the room, games to turn out the lights - we have to mix it up every few weeks!! The only thing I keep the same is the final cuddles in the dark before putting into bed - although these now include nose rubs, squeezy cuddles, big cuddles!

How was last night?

Clairehv · « **Reply #17 on:** May 09, 2015, 12:45:04 pm »

Well after the 1hour plus of hysterics she woke at 2.30 needing a wee and tool until 3am to fall back asleep then awake at 6am

Just had a complete nap time battle as well which is very unusual. Crying didn't want to get in cot. Has taken 45 mins to settle and finally fell asleep with me holding mid way through a hysterical cry!!

Oh well fresh attempt tonight.
X

weaver · « **Reply #18 on:** May 09, 2015, 12:47:03 pm »

Out of interest, Claire, has she ever done a no nap day? And how did that go? Sometimes no nap is a good reset for the routine.

Clairehv · « **Reply #19 on:** May 11, 2015, 21:17:10 pm »

Hi
So things haven't really improved here.
Took a backwards step on Saturday night. She got herself so upset at bedtime and didn't want to go in the cot and after a dreadful nap resistance earlier I ended up sitting in the chair next to her and holding her hand. Into cot at 7pm and asleep by 7.30pm. We were going out for a very rare evening together so I admit I wanted her to go to sleep.
She slept until 7.25am

Sunday evening again bath avoidance and then wouldn't get out of bath but once out did actually get dressed and sat on my knee and had two stories.
Into cot and lots of upset as really wanted me to hold her hand, I ended up holding her hand again. Not asleep until nearly 8pm.
Woke at 2.25am wanting a wee on potty and then took 45 mins to settle with me sitting next to her holding her hand.

Tonight DH had a nightmare with her tonight.
I went out just before 6pm. Gave her a kiss,and cuddle goodbye.
She messed around for DH before getting into the bath. Had a nice bath then refused to get out or brush her teeth.
Only got into her pjs with threat of no stories.
Read stories together ok.
Then he went to put her in the cot, she started crying ' want mummy' and getting hysterical. She was hysterical almost not breathing for 45-50 mins, he couldn't calm her down.
He stayed in the room, tried to calm her down, nothing worked and when I got home at 8pm she was sobbing.
I held her hand to sleep.

We feel so sad that she is so emotional at bedtime.
I am lost on whether to get tougher so leaving the room and doing walk in walk out of try the GW again and pick up where we left off on Friday
I know we have lapsed in consistency but not sure what to do when she gets,herself into such a state.

Thanks for letting me moan x

Clairehv · « **Reply #20 on:** May 13, 2015, 18:40:52 pm »

Essentially we just face a different procrastination every night.
If I say no or try to get her into her pjs it just results in a battle and then tears which make bedtime even harder.
Tonight wasn't too bad in that we didn't have tears to get her into pjs. She got down from my knee halfway through story and played with a soft toy. She dragged a large muslin out of drawer and then wanted to make a bed on the floor.
I finished the story then got her into got. Said night night and sat on chair but then she started messing around and,standing in the cot so I have left the room.

I just don't know what to do, when she lies down I go back in and say night night and sit the chair and the messing about starts,again.
TBH her behaviour is challenging in the day as which I know is an age thing and we have to teach boundaries and consistency which I do try my best to, but it is just driving me around the bend at bedtime.
I am also really stressed as next week DH away but then I have to go away for 1 night which is none negotiable. My sister has agreed to do pick up from childcare and bath-bed a stay overnight. I am dreading it for her. (Think it will put her off kids forever)
So we are about 6 weeks into this behaviour now. How is it going to get better? I didn't see any difference with capping her nap and GW.
7.30pm- she has taken her pjs off and won't put them back on.
Don't want to leave her like that as she will wake up cold but should I force her into them which is pretty impossible actually and will result in hysterics.
Gosh I feel like I am in a never ending cycle of doom!!

Haribo2012 · « **Reply #21 on:** May 13, 2015, 18:54:53 pm »

Oh hun sounds like very hard work at the minute. Is she still napping?
It might be time to get a bit tougher

We had a lot of this behaviour a few months ago and it resulted in doing deals. I'd personally explain what's happening, so after this story you will be going to bed and it's time to sleep, I'd also say that you will leave bedroom door open and sit on the stairs but only if she's quiet and goes to sleep. I told DS that if he carried on making noises and messing about then I wouldn't sit on the stairs. It took a while with the calling for me, I'd pop in say night time I'm on the stairs but remember quiet etc.
I would also let her tuck toys in but tell her she can do that in her bed so they can sleep with her. Re pj's can you give a choice if she takes them off offer a different pair? I'd tell her you will be cold without them on but that's your choice so would you like them on or off!

You'll prob find she wants them on after a few mins. If not get a baggy pair and put them on when she's asleep or a baggy tshirt so it's easy to get on? xx

Clairehv · « **Reply #22 on:** May 13, 2015, 21:20:49 pm »

Hi Zoe
Yes I think bedtime has to mean bedtime now and the hand holding etc isn't helping.
Actually tonight after taking her pjs off I left the room. She asked for a wee so had one and then agreed to different pj's (short ones though so hope she does not get cold)
She went into cot and I said night night, she asked for hand hold but I just said night night mummy going to bed. I left the room and she just stayed lying down and went to sleep. She was probably exhausted though as it was nearly 8pm.

Will see how tomorrow goes. X

Haribo2012 · « **Reply #23 on:** May 14, 2015, 05:42:26 am »

That sounds like you did a great job. Even now my DS says every night can u sit in my room, I always give him an extra cuddle and say you know it's BT and mummy has to sort the washing, finish jobs and then it's my BT (lots of washing to fold lol)

Not saying this is the case but they do know what works to get to you x

Clairehv · « **Reply #24 on:** May 14, 2015, 12:26:34 pm »

Hi
We don't feel like we are doing a great job, She is hysterical if DH tries to put her to bed which means the majority is falling to me. She won't accept him doing bedtime at all if I am in the house and if I go out to the gym, it is as if she refuses to go to sleep until I am back!!.
Then when I do bedtime we just get the 1 hour + of the unsettled behavior, asking for toilet, general procrastination. Oh I get so frustrated. I just want my dinner and perhaps a 5 min conversation with DH before I go to bed! (too much to hope for perhaps)

I appreciate that there is a developmental leap at around 2.5 years, and looking back some serious separation anxiety over me working away coupled then with two weeks of chicken pox but we are 6 weeks on from there now.

Oh well, every night I hope it may get better. Will cling onto that for a while.

The EWs have continued as well despite the fact her bedtime is later (unintentional)

X

Haribo2012 · « **Reply #25 on:** May 14, 2015, 15:12:39 pm »

My DS will favour me putting him to bed over DH. I do remember this phase well as we were eating dinner at 9pm.
I think it's just a case of staying consistent and as much as it's a pain don't let it get to you if you can help it as she will pick up on it.

Could you eat dinner before bt for a few weeks so at least you are doing it all not hungry? I think our worst BT was from 32-34 months, screaming mummy I need u here, go away daddy etc. it did pass Hun, lots of cuddles, talking about how nice bedroom is etc and lots of playing with mummy but daddy doing bath and if I need to go out then DS has to go to bed by daddy.
Could u stay out a bit later so DH does whole BT, she will be fine and may kick up a fuss but as long as DH consistent too saying it's ok daddy's here and time for sleep, mummy will be back later or something like that.
I try and think of it along lines of if my DS was having a meltdown over not being allowed new toy or chocolate etc I wouldn't give in, so although u want BT calm sometimes they can't have you ALL to themselves constantly sometimes you have stuff to do. X

Clairehv · « **Reply #26 on:** May 16, 2015, 19:05:35 pm »

Hi
I am almost at the point of just putting in the cot at bedtime and shutting the door and then putting earplugs in downstairs!!!
I obviously won't but she is pushing every boundary.
I thought Thursday evening we had made some progress actually, after story she went into cot. I switched light off and we said night night and then she started,asking for my hand. I stated I would hold her hand for one song then would go.
Sang 'twinkle twinkle' then said I needed toilet and would come back.
Left for a couple of minutes then went back and said night night, mummy go to bed.
I walked out. She stayed,lying down and grumbled a bit but went to sleep herself.
Last night I tried the same so story big cuddles before cot and then said Mummy hold hand for little bit and twinkle then mummy tired mummy go to bed.
Had to do more WI/WO and she took her pjs off in protest. TBH there was no real crying just shouting and messing around.
She did settle and fell asleep herself at around 7.50pm after I had been in again and said night night.

Tonight was a backwards step I feel. Refusal to get out of bath so when lifted out there were tears. Refusal to get into pjs resulting in a tantrum. Left her to calm down then did story. She wouldn't get in cot and got every single soft toy from her shelves in room and put into cot.
Then got it. I sat and held hand whilst singing twinkle, then said night night. Left, went back in after a few mins. Another night night then left.
Then she wanted a wee, and is now back in cot but just messing about with her soft toys. Not shouting or crying yet. We are 30 mins in from her going into cot for the first time now.
Went back in and I said our sleep phrase, and said Mummy going to bed.
Went out and sat on landing, she stayed lying down and fell asleep by 7.45, no crying.
So maybe WI/WO is the way forward and I do think that bedtime should mean bedtime.

I agree with trying to eat together and spend as much time in day to get her through this SA phase. We can't eat together mon-Fri but we do on weekends.
With regards to DH doing bedtime.We will continue as he has to when I am away, she puts on a good fight though and would probably be sat on the drive post9pm!
May be worth a,try ha x

Haribo2012 · « **Reply #27 on:** May 17, 2015, 07:08:07 am »

Keep going with it Hun she will get the idea that you mean business, sometimes they have a good few days then regress before getting it again. My DS definitely messes about more if I'm in the room, if she's not crying that's good, leave her to it.

Did you say she's still napping? Sounds a bit of UT messing in there too!

We only eat together thurs-sun with being at work but any time together will fill her mummy cup of its SA.

How was your night? xx

Clairehv · « **Reply #28 on:** May 21, 2015, 15:45:25 pm »

Hi
So Monday night DH did bedtime, lots of crying, cot resistance but finally asleep by 8pm.
Woke at 6.10am

Tuesday night both DH and I were away separately with work. I was so worried, My sister and BIL did pick up from childminders and everything went really well, she was like an angel for them, no crying or fighting after bathtime, had stories and cuddles, did mess about in the cot but no crying and my sister just sat in the room until she fell asleep by 8pm. I was so relieved for them.
Wednesday morning she woke at 6.30am.
Nap 12.45-2pm (was woken up by childminder as we are nap capping)
Played up for me massively, had hysterics and refused to get in car seat, finally got home. Had a relatively nice play and bathtime and story time, and then proper cot resistance again. Managed to get in cot but then she was crying and took her pjs and pull up nappy off.
Flat refused to put nappy on, I managed to get it on but she took off again both times. Lots of crying, me doing Wi/WO. she went to sleep by 7.50 with no nappy on and I managed to go back in at 8.30pm and put one on in her sleep.
She woke at 2.45am but settled and then woke at 6.30am today.
Started off getting dressed ok and then flat refused to put her clothes on. She put her pjs back on. If I try and force her or hold her to get dressed it is just awful
I took her to the childminders in her pjs and surprise surprise she of course got dressed straight away there.

I am finding this behaviour a real struggle, the constant 'no's 'me not want to' just seem endless and I am struggling with what I have to be really tough on and what to just try and let wash over me?

I don't feel there is any end in sight.
I do not seem to know anyone else who has the same BT issues, regardless of if their toddler naps or not. I know there are lots of us struggling as I read the posts, but having had an almost textbook daughter I am just struggling to know what to do. (Please tell this phase doesn't last for another 16 years

)

patsy32 · « **Reply #29 on:** May 21, 2015, 19:59:29 pm »

Hi Claire, hugs to you.
I know how hard this is for you as we went through something similar only a few weeks ago.
It started with Dd who was 27 mths at the time waking every 2nd night at 12.30 am And always resulted with her ending up in our bed for the rest of the night. This went on for about a good mth or so and it was only on the advice of another bw mum here that I took action and went to nnds or a 20 min car nap if really necessary every 2/3 day's.
I couldn't believe how well it worked and never would have been brave enough to do it without the advice and support from this site. I actually really thought my dd still needed her 1 hr nap each day but it turned out I was totally wrong and all the nw's were a sign she needed nap cut. Maybe your bt tantrums are a sign of been ut too. I think someone already enquired about if you have done a nnd already. No harm to try and see or just offer a 20 min nap around 3 pm to get her through to normal bt !!
Back to the ending up in our bed. A bit like your hand holding situation. It became a habit! After weeks of waking up at 12.30 and into our bed as we couldn't resettle her in the cot.she would cry and call us for like ever and eventually if it meant sleep for everyone we caved in and the habit took hold. It got to the stage where just like your dd she was crying going into the cot and saying 'Mammys bed, no cot ' etc etc etc! What I did.......
Routine as usual, bath, pj's, bottle, teeth and so on. Down to bedroom into sleeping bag. Lift up to put in cot and crying started so I would calmly say ' no Mammys bed, this is S's bed. Mammy and Daddy sleep in Mammys bed, S sleeps in her cot' give kiss while lowering into cot, say night night as usual. The 1 St night I sat on bed in her room but never made eye contact or spoke to her while she was crying, kicking , banging the cot etc. when she fell asleep I only made to her door and she woke crying and saying 'Mammy bed 'again I said 'no Mammys bed this is S's bed' In a firm but calm voice. I spoke to her from the door and never made eye contact. I waited by the door until she did finally fall asleep about 40/50 min in total.
2nd night same story although this time when crying going into cot I repeated my speal 'no Mammys bed this is S's bed' and I went straight to the door where she could see me but I didn't make eye contact or speak to her from that point on. Took about 20 min to fall asleep.
3rd night when going into cot she said herself 'no Mammys bed ' and I just replied 'no Mammys bed this is S's bed'. Dropped her into cot said night night and walked out the door. No cry and went to sleep within a few mins and no trouble with bt ever since touch wood.
I think you need to be firm with the whole bt process. As in if it's bath time and she refuses to get in just pick her up and put her in and the same for the the whole routine but completely ignore all tantrum behaviour so instead of holding hand let her see you ate still there with her but if you say no hand holding then that means no hand holding no matter what!
I know this might seem very harsh but believe me at this age and from my own experience toddler's latch onto habits so quickly and don't let go easily but if you stick to your guns and show her you mean business she'll soon learn that the messing around is getting her nowhere!
With the pj's I wount even react if she takes them off as mentioned above, just put something loose on after or tuck her in with a fleece blanket after she falls asleep but don't react at the time. My motto is reward the behaviour you want and completely ignore the behaviour you don't want.
sorry if this is absolutely no help to you at all but just a few thoughts on what happened with us and what we did to get through it. X

MasynSpencerElliotte · « **Reply #30 on:** May 22, 2015, 05:09:26 am »

Quote from: Clairehv on May 21, 2015, 15:45:25 pm

I am struggling with what I have to be really tough on and what to just try and let wash over me?

That is a fairly personal thing really...the things I choose to be tough on may be things you would let slide. Here the battles I will fight are very few - maybe because by #3 I am just tired and partly because I don't really care if they use my sofa as a balance beam so long as they learn other people have different rules!

I think seeing that she went to bed fairly well for a new person that the bedtime stuff is just her testing and seeing how you deal with it combined with possibly being undertired. It sucks but I think maybe coming up with a good plan out of the moment and sticking to it will help both of you.

Haribo2012 · « **Reply #31 on:** May 22, 2015, 06:10:57 am »

When my DS is having a difficult phase I do find that if I am chilled with a "well that's up to you" attitude things are a lot easier.
Mandatory things for us are a bath (filthy after nursery) if he's in a good mood then great we play, if not its in quick wash and out.
Teeth, always get done.
Pre bed wee or no stories.
After that if he chose to take pj off of then I'd say well that's up to you but you might be cold, give option of another pair of not I'd say ok let's get tucked in.

We were well into the odd NND by that age and the BT faffing was much less with a shorter nap or no nap.
it will pass but you need to stay firm with what you want.

Hugs hope you had a good night x

Truly Blessed · « **Reply #32 on:** May 22, 2015, 12:58:17 pm »

Hi Claire, I see you have plenty of support but just want to pop on with much empathy, as I have been here with DS soooooo many times. In my experience is developmental, ie: becoming more aware of being able to make there own choices and testing just how much they can get away with, and I am sure we had this at the same age. I find it is so difficult to accept that these times are down to development, probably because it is then pretty much out of your control, and that is hard to bear. WRT her nap and the 1-0 I would be wary of cutting it back too much with this behaviour in the mix, because you can be fixing what isn't broken, and my experience/gut tells me that it won't make any difference right now as to how long it takes her to settle.

The things I have done over these tricky periods are:

Go through all the demands being made at BT like wee wee, water, change of pyjamas etc etc etc

before she gets into bed, also I would avoid too much fluid for the last hour of BT if possible, then you can be more certain she doesn't need the potty. So get her to choose her nightwear. Give her water, but just a small amount in a sippy, when it's gone it's gone (you can always put a little more in after she is asleep) Have her go to the potty just before going in her cot.

Never go back on what you have said. Ask her if she would like a story on Mummy's knee, but tell her she needs to sit nicely, and if she can't then Mummy will stop the story (may seem harsh but if she is anything like DS she will need firm boundaries or she will flail in the wind? and there's every chance it may only take one or two evenings before she is sitting nicely again) Once she is in her cot I would stick with WI/WO "Mummy is going to X Y Z I'll be back soon" and go back in every 2 or 3 minutes around 3 times, then only go back in if she is calling.

And lastly, try and breathe deeply

this too shall pass, and you can only do so much to help sleep through these difficult periods of development.

I hope this makes sense and helps. Sorry I haven't had time to read the whole thread, so I may have contradicted PP's

((HUGS))

Vicki.x.

Clairehv · « **Reply #33 on:** May 23, 2015, 19:03:01 pm »

Hi
Thanks for the messages. I am going to take the time to read them properly.
We have come to my in-laws for the weekend. Last night was so bad. ( I had about 4 hours sleep )
Tonight is dreadful with flat refusal to go in travel cot and no real alternate apart from our double bed.

I really take on board the consistent boundaries and I will really read the advice and then as soon as we are back at home we need to implement a strategy. I did stick with the GW and wi/wo and no improvement in the length of messing about & bedtime resistance so perhaps further nap capping is needed.
Thanks for the support. I actually think I would be at the Drs re how down I am If I didn't have you all to talk to.
Thanks again x

MasynSpencerElliotte · « **Reply #34 on:** May 23, 2015, 20:17:12 pm »

(((Hugs))) do whatever you have to while you are away! The last time we were at a hotel I paced the floor with my 25lb toddler in my arms for over an hour to get her to sleep, and generally we end up co sleeping if we are away.

Haribo2012 · « **Reply #35 on:** May 23, 2015, 20:22:35 pm »

Whenever we go to my in laws my DA always ends up in Our bed at some point! Just do what you have to so u get some sleep xx

Haribo2012 · « **Reply #36 on:** May 29, 2015, 20:50:54 pm »

How's it going hun?x

Clairehv · « **Reply #37 on:** May 31, 2015, 18:56:39 pm »

Hi
Apologies I have been AWOL. It has been a manic week.
As suggested we did what we needed to to survive the weekend and got home on Monday.
I have to say that actually this week had been getting progressively better with the messing around reducing and E actually going to sleep herself with the WI/WO increasingly easier with her asleep by around 7.15pm and waking at around 7am. Last night she slept 7pm to 7.35am wow!!
However tonight due to a social arrangement she only had a 40min nap waking at 2pm and we didn't get home until 7pm.
We are in the middle of a complete OT meltdown.... She won't allow me to pick her up do story or anything. She has taken her pjs and nappy off and just screams hysterically when I go in.
I am kicking myself. We had almost turned a corner and am hoping we are not back to square one!!

MasynSpencerElliotte · « **Reply #38 on:** May 31, 2015, 20:05:15 pm »

It will be ok! If she got there once you can get back there again. Fx she settles in for the night soon.

Haribo2012 · « **Reply #39 on:** May 31, 2015, 20:11:59 pm »

As Heidi says it will be fine, she will get there again. Back to routine tomor, we have to live life.
I thought going on holiday with my DS would ruin everything with a long flight and huge time difference but he coped and slept better than ever.

Keep calm lots of gentle reassuring words and she will give in eventually Hun xx

K-JDA · « **Reply #40 on:** May 31, 2015, 20:14:18 pm »

Sounds like you are doing great. I always stress about going outside routine particularly if ST'ing but she'll soon be back into the groove!

Clairehv · « **Reply #41 on:** May 31, 2015, 20:50:37 pm »

Hi
Thank you. Just typical isn't it. I am sure we had almost turned the corner and if the last 8 weeks were a very long developmental leap combined with SA and some AP the,last 5 nights had really been better.

Tonight was just awful, she,was so OT she didn't know what to do with herself. After hysterics and taking her pjs and nappy off she wouldn't let me pick her up, she had a wee accident in her cot which obviously meant she got really upset, so I ended up with a very tired naked toddler asleep finally by 8.30pm in my arms in our bed.

bless her.
Think we can definitely say E does not push through well.
Have got a nappy on and pj bottoms in her sleep and transferred to a clean dry cot at 9pm

Back to hopefully our improved bedtime tomorrow.

MasynSpencerElliotte · « **Reply #42 on:** June 01, 2015, 04:39:31 am »

Aww poor girl! (((hugs))) for you both, hope tomorrow is better xx

Clairehv · « **Reply #43 on:** June 02, 2015, 21:06:55 pm »

Hi
Well the good news is that DH has done bedtime for the last two nights and the messing around is minimal and she has gone into cot easily and has been asleep by 7.15pm

Honestly I was thinking things wouldn't get better but being more consistent has clearly worked. Plus maybe she really was affected by that 2.5 year developmental leap.
Anyway we have 12nights to stay on track before going on holiday really messes it up again ha ha!!
She was up last night at 3.30am for 1.5hrs but I am hoping that is a blip
Thanks for sticking with me on this thread x x

Haribo2012 · « **Reply #44 on:** June 03, 2015, 04:57:38 am »

That's great news hun, and when it comes to the hols don't worry just enjoy and she will surprise you most likely. These developmental blips really do throw things off xx

Truly Blessed · « **Reply #45 on:** June 03, 2015, 08:29:01 am »

Hi Claire, I'm very happy to read this update

Well done you! I agree, holidays are for enjoying, and IME as you tend to be so busy sleep is something a LO covets at the end of the day. Try not to stress too much if nights are later etc and finger's crossed that she plays 'catch up' really well beforehand.

x.

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