Really unsure of what to do to help him :(

[newkidontheblock]

Just hold then, hun. Hold for a few days and let him catch up. {hugs} Sorry things are so difficult right now.

[newkidontheblock]

IMO and according to what I have read regarding this, 10.5 is not enough sleep at all and does indicate an issue - generally OT. Just hold to a time and get him well rested again. You are getting long naps anyway so he should catch up fine.

[Kfro]

Just as you have said that he has started giving me rubbish ut (I think!) naps. Is there any way that too short an a before bt could cause nw's or Ews? I know that if put down too early and they mess about it can lead to ot and then nw's but could it cause problems even if they fall asleep straight away?

[*Liz*]

In my experience yes it can. It's all very individual to different babies, and that is why it is hard to work out.

My DD always had a short am nap, then a long lunchtime nap, and refused the CN from about 4 months. At about 5/6 months she started taking 2 long naps and I was delighted! But the nights soon fell apart. It took me ages to realise! Once I went back to the short am nap it improved again  .

[Kfro]

It sure is hard  . Ds naps were awful for a long time but his nights were good. Then I worked really hard on extending his naps but his nights now are pretty bad. I was thinking ot for a long time and I'm sure there is still some ot there but it does seem to be more ut now?! This made me think that his first a was the problem but maybe it's the last one. I'm really tempted to try set naps but not sure that they will be any better and don't really know where to set them at anyway!! What a pickle 

[newkidontheblock]

Is there any way that too short an a before bt could cause nw's or Ews?

Yes, absolutely. There are many babies who need their longest A before bed.

What's your day looking like now, hun, with the short naps? If you are getting UT naps, you will have to push through the OT and stretch his times.

[Kfro]

It's looking like a complete mess   

And I don't know where to start to fix it

I think we need to be on two naps one minute and then I'm not sure the next. I've been trying so hard to make sure that the problem isn't ot but maybe that's just making it worse.... Or maybe he needs longer to catch up and I'm not giving him enough chance.

I have just had to fight him for a catnap. He has finally gone down. I am sure I will have to fight him at bedtime too *sigh*

[newkidontheblock]

{{hugs}} I'm going through a similar experience with the 2-1, so I feel your pain. I did find that I had to firmly stick to one nap and power through with EBT in order to get things straight again with 3-2. I will look for my old post about this and see what happened

[Kfro]

What kind of a time were you on when you started powering through on two naps? Did your dd just eventually get used to it and so the ot sorted itself out? I have read posts advising that if a reasonable bt is within three hours of nap ending then you should skip the catnap. My worry is that his a times are slightly less than three hours currently so this May compound the ot?

[*Liz*]

I guess the question is whether the A times would actually be long enough if the nights were not awful? That is the catch isn't it?? They can start to rob night sleep for day sleep, but still be OT overall because really the long night sleep is more restorative than any nap.

[newkidontheblock]

What kind of a time were you on when you started powering through on two naps?

We were on 3 hours A.

So I did go through my old posts and it is uncanny - we were getting OT naps, NWs, fussing at BT and EWs during this transition. I was exactly as frazzled as you are. I think I have just blocked this out as I remember it being so very smooth. Lol. I do clearly remember that I had to get her day sleep totals right in order to stop the wakings in the first part of the night. A week or two or consistently long day sleep eventually got rid of the OT and we got back on track.

I have read posts advising that if a reasonable bt is within three hours of nap ending then you should skip the catnap.

My DD could not handle 3 hours to bed at that point because she needed a shorter A before bed. I did go for an earlier bed time with an A length that suited her. Of course EBT did not work well for us at that point and I just had to push A and get long naps that ended  4.30ish.

[Kfro]

So we have been powering through on 2 naps and have done really well..... We haven't had to do a cat nap in ages and have got up to 305 a times. Just recently it has gone a bit pear shaped though. He started not really wanting his first bottle of the day so we decided to try and wean him off of the night feed. awe decided that if he woke before 430 we would give him only 100 ml and if he woke after 430 we would just try to resettle him ( this worked when we weaned him down from two night feeds to one). The first night he woke at 345 do we gave him 100 ml and put him back down. But he never really went back to sleep. I comforted him whenever he cried but he just didn't really ever fully settle. The second night he woke at 445 so I just went in and comforted him but again he wouldn't really fully settle back down. Last night was a repeat of the first apart from we tried to give him a bit of water after the 100 ml of milk but he wasn't interested in having any. He seemed satisfied with what he had had but again would not go back to sleep. Every morning we have made him stay in his cot until six and have then brought him downstairs and given him his bottle and he has only taken a small feed. So what gives?! I have been trying to keep his first nap of the day set at 905 regardless and he has been sleeping until I wake him up so the early start doesn't seem to be affecting the nap but he does seem tired all day. He goes down fine for his second nap and bedtime but he has given a few cry outs in the early part of the night so could this all be due to overtiredness? Should I pull his first nap earlier for a couple of days or allow him to sleep for longer? Or is it more likely ut that has caused ot so I need to extend his times? I'm so confused and so tired.

[newkidontheblock]

That does sound exhausting. Happy to hear about the progress though. Umm, this is quite a common happening - babies not eating on WU due to NFs. Have you tried waiting for a half hour and then offering? The thing is, a NF or two at this age is still very normal and necessary for some.

Could you post your routine? That would make it easier to see. I don't think you should pull the nap early though. That might reinforce the early start. If he is settling without a problem and giving a long nap, that's fine....as long as he isn't thinking of it as a continuation of night sleep

[Kfro]

He eats so much during the day I figured he didn't need the nf and it had become habit but I am going to try giving him a full feed when he wakes up to see if he goes back to sleep after. I put him down for his nap ten minutes early this morning and let him sleep for two hours.... Big mistake. This afternoons nap was pretty non existent. Will revert back tomorrow wth the hope that tonight isn't too horrendous!

[newkidontheblock]

FX!