13.5 month old - trying to eliminate NW/NF

[calgal22002]

We are working on fixing LOs NW/NF. She is a very easu going baby and has been very independently sleeping for months now. The only problem is that she is still waking at least once a night (sometime between 2-4:30) and it usually takes a bottle (1/2 diluted, 4 oz) to get her back to sleep. I think it is the pacifiying she likes, not even the milk. The last few nights we have been working on not giving her a bottle, just going in, telling her it is time to sleep and resettling her a bit. She will cry off and on, but mostly whine, not full on crying. She sometimes is even asleep and complaining in her sleep (we can see on the monitor). We go back in if the crying escalates, but mostly she just complains. 2 nights ago, this complaining lasted off and on for 1.5 hours!? At 6:00AM we went in and gave her a bottle (as she should have been waking for the day at that time). She was tired and went back to bed and slept in until 8:30. Then had a nap at 12:00 and bedtime was 7:00.

Last night, in similar fashion, she woke up at 4:30, we went in and told her it was time to sleep and resettled her. She complained a bit, never really crying and although we heard her a few times, she never really seemed to be up for any length of time. My husband got up for the day at 5:30 and LO was crying a bit so he gave her a bottle and she again drank it and fell back asleep. She woke up at 8:15 today. My plan is to put her for her nap around 12:00 and again bedtime at 7:00.

I realize we are in the middle of a transition of sorts, but is this an okay schedule? She is basically subbing her morning nap for the sleeping in to 8:00. Her total sleep is 13 hours or so at night (minus the time she might be awake in the middle) and another 1.5 hours nap. That seems high. Could that be contributing to the NW? Should we try to keep her up longer in the evening or try to wake her in the morning earlier? Ultimately, the goal is to STTN, so I welcome any suggestions on how to get there

Thanks!

[katie80]

What was her routine before you started trying to get rid of the feed? I'm guessing if she was still on two naps, part of the reason for that NW may be because she was needing a cut in daytime sleep.

Is she getting any teeth... molars? The on and off crying sounds like it could be discomfort, esp for that long. Have you tried giving meds at all at the beginning of the NW? I got rid of the last NF with my DS2 at about the same age and I will say there was no moaning about it, he was ANGRY he wasn't being fed, so I'm thinking there are definitely other factors at play.

I do think that if you're ending up giving her the bottle anyway, I would probably just do it when she first wakes and then make routine changes based on her normal WU. I don't know that she will naturally stop waking if she continues getting a bottle after a certain amount of time and it will be more difficult to make the appropriate routine changes with the long NW/later WU in the morning.

[calgal22002]

Thanks. Her days were really unpredictable even before. Some days she woke at 7, other times she woke at 8:30, often depending on whether she had a feed at 2:30 or at 4:30 at night. Then she would be tired 3 hours after she woke up, so sometimes she would have a nap at 10-12 (and if I was lucky, a second nap at 3:30 or sometimes just one nap from 11-1 or so. That's one of the reason I wanted to cut out the NF.

Today, the afternoon nap went great - she napped from 12:30-2:30 and has been super pleasant all day

[calgal22002]

One more update:

BT was around 8. She had her milk earlier than that (trying to break the association) and only drank half the bottle.  She slept through (YAY) until 5:15, when DH was getting up for work. He gave her a bottle and she is just starting to wake up now (8AM). I think we will aim for the 12:00-2:00 nap or thereabouts nap and hopefully that will work well. I am fine with the 5AM bottle if this might just be somehow part of the 2-1 nap transition. I would love to ditch the 5AM bottle as well, but I don't want to have a crank on my hands all day if the alternative is an EW (and I will be cranky too).

What do you think - can this routine work okay or is there a point in still aiming for a set WU a bit earlier?

[katie80]

Well, the day is quite unbablanced if she's waking at 8 and napping from 12-2. The long afternoon A will likely make her OT and continue to cause that EW.

Typically, LOs need to be able to manage 4.5-5hr A on either side to consistently do 1 nap days.  If she's only at 4hr, do you think you could AP a short CN in the late afternoon to get her to BT. That may help the EW more than continuing to feed. 

It might look something like this...
WU 8am
Nap 12-2pm
Nap 6-6:15pm (in stroller/car, maybe)
BT 8/8:30pm

Or, you could shoot for this...
WU 8am
Nap 12:30-2:30/3pm
BT 7:30/8pm

[calgal22002]

Thanks - she has never really been a CNer. She also really doesn't sleep in the stroller or carseat unless she is REALLY tired or not feeling well.

So last night was a success of sorts - she woke up once but seemed to be uncomfortable. I gave her some Tylenol (there are a few teeth coming soon). She settled without any trouble and slept through to 7:30 this morning. That was great, but the problem was BT. Last night she refused to have her bottle at all, and then stayed up in her crib yammering away until 8:30 (BT was 7:30). Finally we tried her bottle again and she took most of it (grudgingly) and then settled herself (must have been exhausted). 

So yesterday was:

NF 5:30
WU 9:00
Nap 12:45-2:15
BT 7:30, but only asleep at 8:30

Now I don't know what to do/not do today.

She got considerably less night sleep last night than usual (11 hours) but I know she won't nap 2 times today and I am sure she won't nap more than 2.5 hours at most (she has never done that and it is rare she goes even that long). I am not even convinced I can even keep her up until noon. It is 10:00 now and she is already acting fussy. Also she is not hungry this morning, which makes me nervous that she is coming down with something. She hardly drank her milk today and only picked at breakfast

I am really happy with the night last night, but also very confused what worked or didn't work.

Help please!

[katie80]

Also she is not hungry this morning, which makes me nervous that she is coming down with something. She hardly drank her milk today and only picked at breakfast

Or, that could be the teeth too. Hope she's ok!

I know she won't nap 2 times today and I am sure she won't nap more than 2.5 hours at most (she has never done that and it is rare she goes even that long).

If she won't nap 2 times, then you really have no option but to start lengthening the morning A time, so that the nap falls closer to mid-day. Maybe not today since she had a shorter night, but that's the way forward. And with the longer A time she may sleep 2.5 or more hrs. It's pretty common to have normal length naps (1.5-2hr) until you push to one consistent nap and have that get longer. Both my boys started sleeping 2-2.5hr on longer A times once they transitioned to one nap (and they had not done that before).

The other option, if she's not ready for the longer A time is to do a short morning nap and allow for a longer afternoon nap. Something like this...
WU 7am
Nap 10:30-11am
Nap 2-3:30pm or 2:30-4pm
BT 7:30/8pm

That's what my DS1 was doing around 13/14mo, although he is on the HSN side.

[calgal22002]

I managed to get her nap to 11:40-1:30, so not too shabby all things considered. She is still not eating much today, so I'm watching her a bit closer. Thanks for the suggestions. I will try a slightly earlier BT today as well (maybe 6:30/7:00). Here's hoping!

[katie80]

FX!

[calgal22002]

1 NW at 3:00, where I went and told LO it was time to sleep. No crying when I put her down

WU was 8:00 this morning

Hopefully this keeps getting better and better. Thank you!!

[katie80]

Sounds really good, nice work!!