Unsure how to resolve catnapping and ot evenings frequent up at night

[Lolasbabies]

Hi
I would appreciate any advice for my 4 month old EBF baby.  I have had her on easy since 2 months but since 12 week growth spurt things have deteriorated at night. She has never been able to sleep in daytime more than 50 mins. I try to keep to roughly 3 hour feeding so her a time is 2 hours.
She has reflux and poor digestion in that very windy bad poos.however she is thriving. 
She is fairly content by day but wakes tired and when I feed her she often sleepy. Then wen comes to 5pm she over tired and struggle to get her to nap but if I put her to bed she wakes an hour later no matter if I have her a time 2 hours or 3 hours or 1.5. Hours at that stage. I roughly aim for 12 hour day.when she wakes an hour after bedtime she is sleepy looks for feed and will go back to sleep.but then I feed her every 2 hours until 1am and then she may do a 3 or 4vhour stretch and then feed 5am and wakes between 6 and 7.30 roughly.
I had been swaddling but she likes sucking her thumb and regardless she takes arms out of swaddle plus she starting to roll so don't feel safe swaddling. 
I wind down for few mins and she self settles after 1-2 mins protesting.
Why I think I wrong as she will sleep longer if I am driving
Please any help be welcome as I have a 2.5 year old too who is missing out

[newkidontheblock]

Hi hun:) Could you please post your routine in EASY format? That would make it easier to see if any tweaks are needed

[Lolasbabies]

My easy is as follows for yesterday no 2 days same
Woke 7.30 and fed
A 2 hours
S 9.30
E 10.15
A 2 hours
S 12.15
E 13.15
A 2 hour
S 15.15
E 16.15
A 1 half
Would not sleep
E 6pm
S 7.30
Woke 8.30 eat bed 9.30 then up every 2 hrs

[newkidontheblock]

I feel that she is getting more OT as the day progresses, leading to the unsettled nights. Wakings soon after bed in this manner generally indicate OT.  A few suggestions - stick to a fixed WU & BT. After a short nap (less than an hour) reduce the A by at least 15 minutes before the next nap to avoid OT. Try and get that catnap any which way - be open to APOPing it in a sling/pram even. If it simply isn't happening, get her down to bed earlier than normal. This is where the main problem is happening.  Her reflux is definitely under control, hun? Reflux can't be playing a part, right? Also, when she wakes after 45 minutes during the am nap, is it possible to settle her?

[Lolasbabies]

Thanks for advice. Don't think reflux is causing problem as she settles ok in day but as evening she overtired. I cut out dairy and helped a lot. With reflux have had to make sure I don't feed her close to bedtime as she will just spit up.
Have tried to extend her naps but she just cries and cries and won't resettle.even if put her in buggy for walk she will cry for walk.
Will try to see if cut A time by 15 mins if she catnapping thanks.
Definately agree she overtired by evening and it why she harder to settle plus my 2.5 year old demands more attention in evening too so all gets a bit much for everyone then
Will let you know how I go with your advice, thanks very much

[newkidontheblock]

Goodluck

[Lolasbabies]

Hi fleur,
Unfortunately have had disaster of day.  My little one extra windy today so maybe that the culprit but I tried reducing A time by 15 mins after she did Catnap and then she still only did another catnap so hard to hold her from feed.
Wu and e 7am
A 2 hr
S 9-9.45
E 10
A 1hr 45
S 11.30-12.20
E 12.40
A 1hr 45
S 14.05-14.50
E 15.20
A 1 hour
S 16.20-17.00
E 18.00
S tried put down 7pm after 15mins felt hungry so took another feed then was almost asleep feeding so woke and winded. Attempted to put down but lot of wind so winding and settled 8.30-9.15 woke fed her winded again and she settled 10pm
Dreading tonight, do you think I should continue reducing a time by 15 mins after catnap?

[newkidontheblock]

Oh dear. That's rough. 3-4 months are prime time for these catnaps. It does get better soon after though. It seems like she is not able to transition past the 45 minute mark. What all have you tried to settle her?

S tried put down 7pm after 15mins felt hungry so took another feed then was almost asleep feeding so woke and winded. Attempted to put down but lot of wind so winding and settled 8.30-9.15 woke fed her winded again and she settled 10pm

I'm not understanding this. She had already had a full feed, hun? It's possible to misinterpret their cries - could she have been OT and needing help settling rather than needing to be burped? How do you know when she needs to be burped again? Sorry if I seem a bit dim about this but curious to know. Even with needing to be burped, it seems like something else was up. How many weeks is she, hun? Are you'll in a wonder week by any chance?

[Lolasbabies]

Hi fleur,
I am probably misinterpreting hunger she was just constant high pitch crying. When I put her down and she still has wind she rotating her head side to side as if to get comfortable initially and then pace increases and she starts kicking her legs and tummy tense. I do spend long time rubbing tummy and think all wind up.  And then she can spit up or burp when she goes to bed.
Unfortunately yesterday thought better but awful evening:
Wu 6.30 and left in cot chatting to herself til 7
E 7
A 2 hrs
S 9-10.30
E 10.30
A 2 hours
S 45 mins
E 1.30
A 1 hr 30
S 45 mins
E 4pm
A until 5.30
A tried sleep resisted crying lots had wind so then got up wind
Fed and put to bed at 7pm I stayed with her for 20 mins and she settled after 5 mins
Wu 8pm and she rooting looking feed so fed but then very spewy and windy and put down at 9.30 and she woke screaming at 10.30 and again at 11.30 didn't feed just settled then took 3 night feeds after that and wu at 6.30 this morning again

Will try not to feed her when wakes at 8 pm
If that helps?
She is wonder week alright as she 19 weeks and fussiness can settle by 20/21 weeks
Thanks again fleur

[newkidontheblock]

Oh gods, week 19 is the pits! Were these the stormy days by any chance? I suggest that if CN just isn't happening, move straight to bedtime routine and put her down early. What do you think?

[Lolasbabies]

Hi fleur
Yes these stormy weeks due for calm at week 20.  Just wanted to thankfully report some success some failures thanks to you. I have been trying to get catnap in alright before bedtime and she is definately not as overtired for bedtime and today would you believe had a two hour nap in the afternoon.at night time I really think you right I was misinterpreting overtired for hunger cries so have not been feeding her and just waited with her to settle.
Also she seems to have mastered thumb sucking so seems to be settling herself with this
Last night it took until 9pm to settle her but she did not wake again until 1.45am and was only small feed, woke again at 4am and I actually had to wake her this morning at 7am
I think you right misinterpreted cries for hunger at night so maybe she using this to resettle during night perhaps reason for so many feeds.fingers crossed will be same tonight.
She settled for 8.30 pm after catnap in buggy from 5.15 to 6
Will try keep aiming for 7am wake up and 7.30 for bed and see
But am so grateful to you so far for making me aware what going on and for your advice
Thanks so much for giving me hope again

[newkidontheblock]

You are most welcome, honey. I'm so happy reading your update. You know, in the beginning, I interpreted every single cry of my DD's to mean hunger. I would nurse her for HOURS. Then I found BW and realised that I simply hadn't been listening. This forum was a life saver for me and I'm so glad that it is helping you too. Do keep me updating on your progress. And remember, things get SO much better after this wonder week, so stay positive!

[Lolasbabies]

Hi fleur
Thank you again glad to say slowly improving sleeping better by day I find if first nap I keep up for 2hr 15 she will stretch to 1hr 30 nap and she might still do catnaps after that but at least getting one bigger sleep. She not as overtired in evening although still takes longer to settle but I not feeding and seems to be working as less feeding at night
Will keep working as although bed time for 7,30 still 8.30/9 before settles but she not waking one hour after settling which much better
Thanks for giving me hope and your time
Will keep u posted

[newkidontheblock]

I find if first nap I keep up for 2hr 15 she will stretch to 1hr 30 nap and she might still do catnaps after that but at least getting one bigger sleep.

We had to finally settle for this as DH put his foot down on any crying that lasted more than 10 minutes. So she would do a long am nap and then 2 CNs - it didn't affect nights and she was settling independently so it worked for us. But keep trying to extend pm by tweaking A times.

Hope things get better, hun