Author Topic: NW's and sleep all over the place. Please help!  (Read 2672 times)

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Offline Sarahkinso

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Re: NW's and sleep all over the place. Please help!
« Reply #30 on: July 07, 2015, 18:37:27 pm »
Hey hun, sorry for another update!

Just to say that harry finally took his nap at 3.20, almost 4 hours after his first nap wu and had 35 minutes and went to sleep at 7.20 tonight after an A time of 3 hours and 25.

So confusing as I am not sure if he needs longer for his second nap too but makes the day a bit long (although today wasn't too bad in the end)

Just wanted to update xx

Offline Kellyjs

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Re: NW's and sleep all over the place. Please help!
« Reply #31 on: July 07, 2015, 19:12:55 pm »
Actually hun that's not bad at all! It's not unusual for days to get rather long during a transition. I've heard some do 14hr days, but that's just not for me, that's why I kept chopping down that pm nap and went cold turkey to one nap at 10.5-11mo!!

A wise BW once told me to check their average sleep during a day before the transition. You were getting around 2hrs a day DT sleep (give or take). If he only takes 1hr 20/30, just do BT the time that he's missing, so 30-40mins earlier. That really helped me throughout the transition. There were days I did a 6pm BT (we used to have a 7pm BT). It is yucky all the inconsistency but that way you're doing everything you can.

Wrt the waking earlier, that's totally up to you. Personally I wouldn't as 6.30am is our wu in this house. I tried for months to get it to 7 with no avail  ;).

I would pd for nap around 5mims before A time is up so around 3hrs 55mins. I totally think he can handle it. Then let's increase that second A to 3.5hrs instead of the 3hrs 15mins. Hopefully he'll be slightly more tired to take that nap.

So let's work on a 6.30am wu  ;)

Wu 6.30
A 4hrs
S 1hr 20-30. (10.30-12)
A 3.5hrs
S 40mims (3.30-4.10)
A 3hrs 20
S BT (7.30)

Obviously the day might sway here and there. If he takes longer to fall asleep for second nap, I would cap it at 30mims or even 20mims just to get to a reasonable BT. It might also mean the last A might need to be reduced slightly too just because they can't go as long on less sleep.

If he refuses his second nap, try and keep him in his bed for as long as possible as long as he's not unhappy. I used to do this with DD. She'd play around up there for 20mims, then sometimes fall asleep, sometimes not. But as lomg as she was just singing and messing about, I'd leave her there for 25mins and get her up and do low-key A until BT. I do think that quiet time helps. Then I do BT at 6 or 6.15 xx



Offline Sarahkinso

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Re: NW's and sleep all over the place. Please help!
« Reply #32 on: July 08, 2015, 11:27:46 am »
Hi Kelly :)

Thanks again for your help.

I really like that schedule thanks for that, day one of trying it today. We decided to let him wake naturally and he woke at 6.35 which was great, so good not having the early wakes!

But, he went down at 10.28 and he is still asleep!! I didn't want to wake him and cap the nap if he needs it but not quite sure what to do for the rest of the day as I am not sure what we do now. lol. I think we may have to do what you said about him just having quiet time about 3.45/4pm as I highly doubt he will take that second nap and then an earlier bt maybe 6pm? Or is that too late? do you class the quiet time as A time or sleep time? The thing I'm worried about is him going to bed early and then he will wake early again and will worry about doing a 10.30 nap if he has been awake for a long time?? I was just getting used to the 6.30 wake ups.

It is fab that he is having a long nap, he has only ever had a two hour nap once!! Although I am thrown a bit now lol. With the waking later and the longer nap I am thinking he is closer to the transition than I thought?? Or could just be a phase. Thinking I may need to wake him at 12.30. Eeekk! I am not sure.

I'm thrown now. lol. Been wanting him to have a longer morning nap for ages and now I don't know what to do. lol. This is weird! It is probably just a one off.

x

Offline Kellyjs

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Re: NW's and sleep all over the place. Please help!
« Reply #33 on: July 08, 2015, 18:22:01 pm »
How did the  rest of the day go hun?

It's a really difficult one. I struggled with this too. Unfortunately in order to fit in a pm nap, you might have to wake him until we can get that first nap closer to 11.30/12. Problem always is if they refuse the second nap, then you feel you've done them a disservice waking them up from the nap.

It's also hard wrt to BT. What we do need to remember is that far too long of an A to BT will cause OT early NW's, but this is part and parcel of the 2-1 anyways. I would count the down time in bed as A as he's not asleep, but I do think it helps them rest a little and not be so stimulated for a bit. In my mind, I was offering the nap, it was up to her to take it yk? Xx




Offline Sarahkinso

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Re: NW's and sleep all over the place. Please help!
« Reply #34 on: July 08, 2015, 20:01:59 pm »
It wasn't too bad thanks hun.

He refused the second nap, as I thought he would. But he stayed in his cot for over 30 minutes just resting a bit. I know what you mean about waking him, I am glad I woke him at the 2 hour mark but I woke him from a deep sleep and he was so cranky for a while. But i feel the same that if I woke him earlier and he was to refuse that second nap anyway, I wouldn't want him to miss out on sleep he would've taken.

I think tomorrow I am going to cap the nap to make sure he is awake by 12pm regardless of what time he went to sleep, that way we can still attempt a second nap that isn't too late and still have a reasonable bedtime!
He was asleep by 6.15 tonight so nearly an A of 6 hours unfortunately so I am expecting an ew tomorrow and maybe some nw's. Haven't heard from him yet which is good.

This 2-1 transition is tricky! I am hoping it isn't too long and drawn out and I'm hoping the actual skipping of nap 2 doesn't go on for too long otherwise I may need to move quicker on getting him onto one nap. Although I don't want him to be too OT and ruch him into it.

You may have told me before, so I'm sorry if you have, but why did you decide to go cold turkey on the transition??

Thanks x

Offline Kellyjs

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Re: NW's and sleep all over the place. Please help!
« Reply #35 on: July 09, 2015, 18:43:04 pm »
You're doing just fine hun, it's just so hard to judge it all sometimes.

We went ct to one nap because I was fed up of all the uncertainty and constantly driving around to get her to sleep for her pm nap. By the time she was refusing it more often that not, I jumped the first A by 30mins every few days as I knew she could handle it.

We were on wu at 6.30am too so this is what I did. I set the nap for 11.30 and let her sleep as lomg as she liked (usually 1.5hrs around then). BT was at 6.15. I held that for around 2 weeks I think and I kept getting ENW's so knew I had to reduce the last A, but there was no way I could put her to bed much earlier as I knew she'd only sleep 11hrs max. So then I pushed it to 12pm and kept BT the same. Think we had a odd 2hr nap around then but mostly 1.5hr. Still had ENW's. Found out she had to be asleep by 5hrs A last thing and she started taking 30mins to go to sleep at BT around now. That drove me crazy as nothing I did sorted that out. She still does it now. As long as she's happy, I think she's just relaxing ready for sleep.

Anyhoo, I still couldn't get 2hr naps reliably so I pushed it again to 12.30pm set nap and bam we got 2-2.5hr naps! BT was pushed back to 6.45 for asleep by 7.15. Stayed that way for a few weeks and then had to start capping the nap at 2hrs (think I was just being greedy  ;)). BT was 7 for asleep by 7.30, 11hrs ONS and 2hr nap until quite recently in fact.

There were bad days as there always are. Some days we had emw and I knew she couldn't make it to her usual nap time, so I used to go to the supermarket on those days at 9am and let her have 15mims in the car just to get her to usual nap time. It was the complete opposite I did earlier on in the transiiton wih a longer first nap/shorter second, but in my mind, she was still going down for her usual nap at her usual time so I was being consistent. That 15mims in the car earlier just helped her through and I wasn't putting her to bed for it yk?

It just took all the guess work out of it for me, I found it so much easier doing it this way, but as you can see it took some tweaking! Does that help? I'll be back in a mo for a link for you that saved my sanity more than once!! Xx

Set naps for toddlers: Why, How and When
« Last Edit: July 09, 2015, 18:44:43 pm by Kellyjs »



Offline Sarahkinso

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Re: NW's and sleep all over the place. Please help!
« Reply #36 on: July 13, 2015, 10:04:19 am »
Thank you for the info hun. It is really interesting, i think that is the way I am going to have to do it eventually.

Interesting about the set naps too. I think that is something that may work for us, even with two naps as at the moment it is all over the place.

We had two days of 6.30 wu's and 10.30 nap but by the time he actually took his second nap, his bedtime was getting later and later and he started to only have 9.5-10.5 hours sleep for a few days which has now resulted in a 5.30am wu again for a few days and I can't stretch him to 10.30am first nap. Even closer to 10am and we are back to an hour and 10 max nap for first nap! argh!

So, now I'm not sure what to do to get that first nap longer and am wondering if that first nap time of hour and ten is more of an ot nap now. No idea how to tweak it now!

I hate all this uncertainty too although I don't feel like he is ready for one nap just yet, especially as i read that when they start walking they really tire themselves out and need that extra nap. But I think that the second nap is causing all of these issues.

So frustrating! It is really getting me down and I am obsessed about his naps and what to do to tweak the schedule etc.

Thanks and sorry for moaning! xx

Offline Sarahkinso

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Re: NW's and sleep all over the place. Please help!
« Reply #37 on: July 13, 2015, 10:17:15 am »
Maybe i should write down the last few days naps etc? x

Offline Kellyjs

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Re: NW's and sleep all over the place. Please help!
« Reply #38 on: July 13, 2015, 18:16:30 pm »
I'd actually push that first nap out more now hun. He's really showing signs of wanting to drop that nap. It's either that, or you could try putting him down for the nap at the same time, but capping it to 30mins and seeing if he'll then take a second nap 3.5hrs later?

Many have done it that second way round, I never could get the A time right for DD as you could manage a full A time on a short nap, so either way our day was too long. It does work for many though, especially with those refusing the second nap. Wdyt? Worth a go for a few days to see if you can get a longer second nap? Xx



Offline Sarahkinso

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Re: NW's and sleep all over the place. Please help!
« Reply #39 on: July 13, 2015, 19:54:43 pm »
Do you mean push the A time? So push it to what 4.15h?

I see what you're saying and does sound good but I'd be really worried actually about capping that nap and messing with it as that is always the best nap and he has rarely had a longer afternoon nap, he generally only ever has about 35-40 mins on an afternoon so if i capped nap one at 30 mins and he only had a short nap again in the afternoon then he would only be getting around an hour a day which is nowhere near enough.

I'm really not sure what to do, I'm guessing I need to push him out to a nap at about 11.30/12 before I can drop that second nap totally which we are still a way off, especially with those emw's creeping back in.

It seems that he will take his afternoon nap closer to 4 hours even with a just over an hour nap in the morning.

Today he randomly woke from his morning nap after an hour and went back to sleep after ten minutes for 55 minutes which was weird, he obviously then skipped his second nap and had to have an early bedtime but was still worked out to be an A time of 6 hours and 5 minutes which is way too long.

I am really hating the uncertainty but not sure how I can speed up the process without him getting really OT. Plus I am worried about rushing it in case it is maybe something else causing the issues and getting rid of the nap is too early.

Argh! x

Offline Kellyjs

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Re: NW's and sleep all over the place. Please help!
« Reply #40 on: July 14, 2015, 05:52:30 am »
It really all is a guessing game hun, we can only look at the signs.

I'd actually push it out to 4.5hrs hun, I know that's a big jump, but if he won't go down for a nap for the pm after 4 hrs after only an hr nap then I'm sure he can go longer after a night sleep yk? I think the A time is reasonably close for now as he did go back to sleep, the extra time might help see him over the sleep cycle transition better.

As I said before, I'm more scared of UT before a nap because there's no way of getting them back to sleep. Since that's your main and perhaps only nap now, pushing it really is the logical thing to do to try and get a longer nap in. And hey, if he does take a short OT nap first thing, there will be more of a chance of getting him to take a pm nap wdyt? Xx



Offline Sarahkinso

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Re: NW's and sleep all over the place. Please help!
« Reply #41 on: July 28, 2015, 20:01:36 pm »
Hi hun

I have just realised I haven't updated or gone on here for two weeks!

So, Harry has been poorly from his jabs and teething (getting his molars through on both sides) which has caused his naps to go a bit crazy, short naps one day and mammoth long naps the next but he seems tired all the time at the moment and has massive meltdowns after 3h45 because he is so tired. Although he is getting a bit better so not sure if this tiredness is a side effect from the jabs.

Anyway, I just wanted to talk about how we are going to get him down to one nap. I think at the moment, he is not capable of handling longer than maybe 4-4.5 hours A time without it causing emw's and nw's I don't think, although haven't actually tried this.
The other problem is that at the moment he is waking around 5.30 so it is difficult to stretch that first A time to get it even remotely close to 11.30/12 to be able to then drop him down to one nap in time.

I want to try and hold onto these two naps for a bit longer if we can if he is still taking two naps but want to stretch his A time slowly.

Thanks hun x

Offline Kellyjs

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Re: NW's and sleep all over the place. Please help!
« Reply #42 on: July 29, 2015, 18:48:20 pm »
Welcome back! So sorry he's been poorly  :(

The EW will be a result of the morning nap being too early hun. That and the teething of course  ::)

You could look at keeping the second A time as is, but stretching that first A slowly. Maybe by 15mins, holding for a week, then stretching again. It will mean your day gets a bit longer for a while, but capping that second nap will help with that.

Want to post your current easy for me and we can make a plan? Xx



Offline Sarahkinso

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Re: NW's and sleep all over the place. Please help!
« Reply #43 on: July 30, 2015, 19:00:49 pm »
Hiya

Yes, I am thinking we do need to extend that first A but I'm just worried about him then refusing to take that second nap once his first nap ends closer to midday.
The other issue is that he seems to wake at 5.30-6 regardless of what time he goes to bed so with the later bedtime (because the day is stretched due to the longer A times) he has only been having around 10.5 hours sleep a night which I don't think is enough.

So, we haven't got much of a schedule at the moment but this is roughly it:

Wu - 5.30-6ish
A- 4 hours (sometimes more if he wakes at 5ish)
Nap 1- anytime between about 9.30-10 but usually closer to 10 especially if he has had a good night's sleep. Nap length varies from 35 minutes- 2 hours
A - 3.5-4 hours (depending on length of previous nap, have been putting him to bed around 3 h 30 and tends to be asleep by 3 h 45 but sometimes closer to 4 hours)
Nap 2 - Anytime between 2.30-3.30 Nap length varies between 35 mins-1 hour (always wake by 4pm)
A time between 3.25-3.5 hours (out in bed around 3 hours 10 and falls asleep by 3.5 hours most nights)
Bedtime - Asleep anytime between 6.30-7.30 (sometimes later if he has woken close to 4)

Hope that all makes sense?

Thanks hun xx

Offline Kellyjs

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Re: NW's and sleep all over the place. Please help!
« Reply #44 on: July 30, 2015, 19:19:03 pm »
Yep, that makes sense.. Looks like a 2-1 type routine where there is no routine  ;)

If you extend the first A, you'll have to wake him up at 1.5hrs in order to fit in a nap later on in the day.

Is he always doing 10.5hrs ONS these days? 11hrs or slightly under would be quite normal especially if he's having 2hrs + day time sleep.

Ok, these A times look good and show us a lot. We'll keep that 3.5 hrs to BT as that obviously works. We might need to reduce that in future if we start capping that pm nap, but it's a great place to start.

We need to start pushing that first A hun, we can go slowly but let's add 15mins on and see how we go? Cap the nap at 1.5hrs if he makeshift that far. Keep the 3hrs 45 A for nap two, cap at 45mims so he wakes at 4 as previous.

So looking something like this:

Wu 5.45 (average)
A 4hrs 15mins
S 10-11.30
A 3hrs 45mins
S 3.15-4
A 3hrs 30mins
BT 7.30 (asleep by)

Wdyt? Xx

Eta do you notice when he does a longer A in the morning after a 5am wu that's when you get the 2hr nap??
« Last Edit: July 30, 2015, 19:21:28 pm by Kellyjs »