Author Topic: Sudden early rising after starting to STTN  (Read 3680 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Gecko2014

  • New, But Posting Steadily!
  • **
  • Showing Appreciation 2
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 93
  • Location: Gold Coast, Australia
Re: Sudden early rising after starting to STTN
« Reply #45 on: June 18, 2015, 01:36:31 am »
Hi,

Yes. I think he's a little unwell. A slight temp on and off at night. That might have been it. But even so, being awake for several hours suggests something else as well. He does have a habit of this sort of thing. Its just that he is sully happy, but awake, rather than grumpy like he was this time.

We ended up keeping him up until midday (DH did, I was out with DS1) and he had only 30 minutes. Then we went away for a few days - we tried to keep the routine as best we could but there were a lot of variables going on. We are home now and I'll get things back on track tomorrow and gauge where we are at.
DS1 (Aug 2011); DS2 (Jun 2014)

Offline trimbler

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 37
  • Posts: 3029
  • Location: London, UK
Re: Sudden early rising after starting to STTN
« Reply #46 on: June 18, 2015, 08:57:49 am »
Aw poor thing, hope he's feeling better soon! Yes come back when things have settled down again and let us know how it's going :-*



Offline Gecko2014

  • New, But Posting Steadily!
  • **
  • Showing Appreciation 2
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 93
  • Location: Gold Coast, Australia
Re: Sudden early rising after starting to STTN
« Reply #47 on: June 20, 2015, 23:08:44 pm »
Hi,
I'll go into the blow-by-blow routine in a day or so but the trend I've been seeing over the  last few days is the opposite of what I would expect. Days with a good or reasonable nap and reasonable A time before bed are associated with difficulty settling at BT, disturbed nights (sometimes) and EW. If the days were naps are awful, are leading to 12 hours unbroken over night and a sensible WU time.

Yesterday I got an EW at 5, he would not resettle despite feed, cuddling etc. When I gave up and got him up, he fell asleep for 15 minutes during the top-up feed. He then fell asleep in the car on the way out at around 930 (about 2.5 hours A time) and then again on the way home, after about a 3 hr interval. It was a complete disaster, routine wise, but he went to sleep without a fuss at BT and slept until 645 this morning. Which was ... fabulous.

I know it's unlikely... but could this be what he needs - 2 CNs and a long night? Could he sustain that? My gut feeling is no but then maybe I'm just blinkered by what I think he 'should' be doing.
DS1 (Aug 2011); DS2 (Jun 2014)

Offline trimbler

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 37
  • Posts: 3029
  • Location: London, UK
Re: Sudden early rising after starting to STTN
« Reply #48 on: June 21, 2015, 19:13:40 pm »
Haha these LOs certainly know how to surprise us :) Well, outside of my limited experience but I know some LOs get by on much less daytime sleep and seem to do just fine, so it's not impossible, I'd just be concerned about whether he'd be able to sustain that every day. It might be that he just needed a 'bad' napping day to break the cycle and then he just crashed and did that long night - I know my DD did that recently after a wedding. But she was in a bad way after three days of bad naps (travel; wedding; travel), so I know it's not sustainable for her on a regular basis. But keep observing him and definitely go by what you think he needs over what other people might tell you, you know him best!



Offline Gecko2014

  • New, But Posting Steadily!
  • **
  • Showing Appreciation 2
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 93
  • Location: Gold Coast, Australia
Re: Sudden early rising after starting to STTN
« Reply #49 on: July 01, 2015, 21:41:19 pm »
I think I might need to start a new post here. I still don't know what he is doing. The more consistent I become with things, the more persistent he seems to be in staying unpredictable.

Some nights he sleeps through, some night he wakes and is up for extended periods of time. Some days he will have 1 2 hour nap at lunch time, other days he will have 30 minutes and refuses another one. Some days he is waking between 6 and 7am and other days he wants to EW before 5am and efforts to resettle are in vain. The the good nights don't even follow the good days (or vice versa). There seems to be no rhyme or reason to it at all. It's more like random luck on the day, what he is going to do and if it is going to work for him (and, consequently, me)
DS1 (Aug 2011); DS2 (Jun 2014)

Offline trimbler

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 37
  • Posts: 3029
  • Location: London, UK
Re: Sudden early rising after starting to STTN
« Reply #50 on: July 01, 2015, 22:34:51 pm »
(((Hugs))) unpredictability is hard :-* There could be so many factors at play, by all means start a new thread if you feel that's appropriate, you may get more fresh eyes on it. If you include a few days EAS routine then it can help to decipher what may be going on. Also consider any discomfort or possible OS, do you think he's particularly touchy/spirited? More (((hugs)))



Offline Gecko2014

  • New, But Posting Steadily!
  • **
  • Showing Appreciation 2
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 93
  • Location: Gold Coast, Australia
Re: Sudden early rising after starting to STTN
« Reply #51 on: July 02, 2015, 01:05:33 am »
I'm not sure what the rules are. I thought if my question has changed, it should be a new post. I don't mind either way.

He still EWs but not consistently so I'm not sure if that's the key issue/symptom.

And yes, I think he tends toward spirited. Not overly so, probably textbook/spirited. He can seem hyper-alert at times, like the 'toothpicks in the eyelids' that tracy describes, and fires around the house with lots of energy but then seems to settle without too much drama (most of the time). Some of the night waking I think could be spiritedness and just not wanting to miss out on things or to touch base with us. When I did the questionnaire he was a bit too young to pick the best options. I should probably do it again
DS1 (Aug 2011); DS2 (Jun 2014)

Offline Gecko2014

  • New, But Posting Steadily!
  • **
  • Showing Appreciation 2
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 93
  • Location: Gold Coast, Australia
Re: Sudden early rising after starting to STTN
« Reply #52 on: July 02, 2015, 02:24:01 am »
I've done the quiz again just now. He is mostly textbook with a few spirited and touchy features.

I think OS might be an issue because I used to find that his naps were terrible on the days the my eldest was at home, despite doing the same thing (routine wise) as the days it is just the two of us at home. As you can imagine, the stimulation level is quite different. I am fairly quiet so the house is fairly quiet on our home days. My 4 year old and my husband bring a lot more noise and bustle into the day. My LO doesn't seem to be bothered either way as far as mood is concerned. The pattern with my elder son at home isn't consistent anymore either. Nor is good sleep/bad sleep based on level of physical activity or number of outings during the day but I haven't really examined this.

Let me describe him a little more and see what you think. He's a fairly happy, smiley baby most of the time and he has been described as 'the happiest baby in the world'. This is often despite having a broken night sleep or poor naps (in contrast to my eldest son who was unbearable if he didn't have a good sleep behind him). He doesn't immediately take to new people but he's not bothered by them. He used to smile very readily but now he's a bit more discerning. He learned to self settle relatively early but we had a long stretch where he was hard to get to sleep at bedtime. For the most part, it seemed like he just wanted to play, particularly if it was me who went in to help him settle. He is often awake in the night - happy, alert and wanting to play. Once he is awake, getting him back to sleep takes a long time.

He has been a very efficient breast feeder from quite early and will let me know if he doesn't think he's getting enough. When he has a bottle, he's very efficient with that too and likes to do it himself. When OT at BT however, I need to turn the lights off in his room for him to focus on either the breast or the bottle. With the light on, he wants to play with the light, play with his books, get on the floor etc etc. I have to be careful with sitting and reading before a sleep time because he can get excited by his books. This having been said, when I turn off the light and cuddle him in preparation for bed, he make the transition from quite alert to relaxed surprisingly easily.

He likes going for a walk in the pram and going to the supermarket although he can be quite vocal in the supermarket. He seems to be a sensation seeker - often touching his books, me, rubbing his face on things and, at times throwing things at his own head to get a laugh from his brother. He likes vigorous movement of his body during play. He doesn't like to hold still for a nappy change. Key milestones were all 'on time', with the exception of the textbook sleep progressions. He was still feeding twice overnight at 9 months and didn't sleep 11-12 hours until around 12 months. He is just now (at 12 months) getting picking with his solids which I think is developmentally normal. He is also fairly clingy at the moment, such that I'm not able to go out of sight or leave him in the play pen for more than a few minutes. Independently play will usually cease if he sees me.
DS1 (Aug 2011); DS2 (Jun 2014)

Offline trimbler

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 37
  • Posts: 3029
  • Location: London, UK
Re: Sudden early rising after starting to STTN
« Reply #53 on: July 02, 2015, 19:42:38 pm »
Oh I can relate to the OS by elder sibling thing, I'm quiet too and can usually get DS to be quiet-ish leading up to nap-time, but when DH is home too there's no calming down so we often get OS. However, I've found that making sure DD is tired enough before nap time has helped. He sounds quite like my DS was with the textbook/spirited thing, getting excited about all sorts of things and then struggling to switch off. I do wonder whether he might be lower sleep needs than you might have thought, you've said that he's done better nights with 'worse' daytime sleep, but maybe he just doesn't need all that sleep and that's why he's so alert at night and seems happy enough even after a rubbish night - what do you think?

I'm not aware of 'rules' as such saying you have to start a new thread if things change, however I do think that starting a new thread would be a good way of getting fresh eyes on this, especially if you put something about possible LSN in the subject, as I'm certainly not an expert on that! If you do start a new thread, do post a few recent days' routine so people can get an idea of what's going on, together with things like whether there was extra stimulation and how he was behaving during the day. (((Hugs))) and happy birthday to DS too :-*



Offline Gecko2014

  • New, But Posting Steadily!
  • **
  • Showing Appreciation 2
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 93
  • Location: Gold Coast, Australia
Re: Sudden early rising after starting to STTN
« Reply #54 on: July 02, 2015, 22:55:36 pm »
I do think he is LSN compared to his peers. But too many rubbish days in a row have an impact, like you talked about with your LO when you were on holidays. He can cope, but it catches up. I wonder if maybe he needs a 2-day routine of some sort. One day with a big sleep, the next day with two shorter ones or something like that.

I get rubbish nights after good nap days and also rubbish nights after rubbish nap days. It's not just the one direction. When he was still on 2 naps however and one of them was for 2 hours or more, that would guarantee a 2 hour wake period in the night.

And today - just to keep things interesting - he slept until 830am. Into bed at 630 last night. Fed and back to sleep at 5am, then slept until 830. That... has never happened so surely he's catching up on a rubbishy run lately. Surely!!
DS1 (Aug 2011); DS2 (Jun 2014)

Offline trimbler

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 37
  • Posts: 3029
  • Location: London, UK
Re: Sudden early rising after starting to STTN
« Reply #55 on: July 03, 2015, 09:10:05 am »
Wow :o I think many LOs during  the 2-1 will do one or more 1 nap days and then need a catch up 2 nap day, either a tiny morning CN if EWing or a tiny pm CN if crashing later in the day - actually I think some will do a slightly earlier long nap and then an afternoon CN with EW too. I'm guessing you did just the one nap today? As I said, I'm happy to keep chatting here but a new thread will get fresher eyes on this who'll have more experience with LSN. Hope you get a good night tonight!



Offline Gecko2014

  • New, But Posting Steadily!
  • **
  • Showing Appreciation 2
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 93
  • Location: Gold Coast, Australia
Re: Sudden early rising after starting to STTN
« Reply #56 on: July 04, 2015, 02:30:27 am »
Will do. Can I put it in the general sleep section now that he is over 12 months or does it have to go into the toddler section?
DS1 (Aug 2011); DS2 (Jun 2014)

Offline trimbler

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 37
  • Posts: 3029
  • Location: London, UK
Re: Sudden early rising after starting to STTN
« Reply #57 on: July 04, 2015, 08:48:45 am »
I'd put it in toddler sleep :-*