2.5yo - to nap or not to nap, that is the question?!

[labrodyk]

Hello amazing ladies, we're baaaaaack!

So, we've muddled through the last 5-6 months with later, capped naps and it's been very trying to say the least. There has been a couple of nap refusal days but 98% of the time he'd take the nap and need to be woken. The aftermath of waking him was horrible. however not having a nap was worse! So as I said, muddling through murky nap waters has been our life.

Then one random day a couple of weeks ago, staying with friends, we made it through the day with no nap and no meltdowns. 6.30 bedtime and asleep in 10mins (usually an hour of laying quietly in bed with even a 40min nap).

So the last 4 days have all been no-nap days. We've had an hour of quiet time with a movie a couple of days and another day I offered books on the loung and he hasn't fallen asleep...

Mood is quite good considering but starting to get a little emotional and cranky this evening.

I guess I'm after some reassurance or guidance on how to approach this - feel free to see the craziness of previous posts.

WU: 5.30/6 but stays in bed until 7 quiet or chatting with the help of gro clock
QUIET TIME: 2-3
BT: 6.30

Is this enough sleep and is it likely to lengthen? He's never tacked on before and always been an early riser. I don't want to make him stupidly OT as he is prone to that. What should I do?

Thanks soooo much.

Laura
xx

[jessmum46]

Are you still offering a nap?  If it were me (though my DD was not napping by this age so not discounting the idea that the nap has gone for good!) I would continue to offer it given the NNDs are so recent and if refused aim for 45 mins to an hour quiet time in bed.  Leave him some books or quiet toys maybe?  And allow him to regulate whether he needs the nap or not?  We did this with gat success for a number of months and just pulled BT 30 mins early if she didn't nap.  What was BT before the NNDs?  I think a 12.5-13h day for just having dropped the nap is probably too long to be sustainable though.....

[labrodyk]

Hi Katherine,

Our issue has always been that he will ALWAYS take that nap of offered which throws off bedtime and he still wakes at 5.30/6 so nights were down to 9 or less hours and then he'd want to make the rest up with a 1..5+ hour nap. If I cap it to the hour or less (was down to 30mins at one stage) the meltdowns afterwards are horrendous and he doesn't add any extra to his nights. Unfortunately I have no other means of offering the nap outside of his bed (eg. Car or pram) and even then he'll sleep for over and hour. Long answer to your question - no, not really offering but if he falls asleep on the lounge with a movie or books I'm not stressing.

Getting him to actually go to his room for a nap or quiet time is proving extremely difficult as well - he used to be so good!

[jessmum46]

Well perhaps just aim for some down time then and if he chooses to nap, go with it.  We tried for naps every day (but had a nap refuser....) and when it didn't happen we sometimes got a late car nap which was capped at 20 mins (any longer she was awful to wake as she had gotten into deeper sleep). Besides the meltdowns how was night sleep with a short capped nap?

[labrodyk]

Night sleep was okay - would take an hour to fall asleep at 7 and be awake before or just after 6 (always varied) so maybe 10hrs Max.

Tonight has been the NW night from OT over the last 5 days.

NW: 3am, took back to bed but called me back so went back for reassurance. Not asleep until 3.35.
NW: 4.10, whispering rambles about a specific toy and swaying next to my bed. Took him back to bed and is still lying awake whispering to himself at 4.35!
I'm hoping he fell back asleep around 5 and then I didn't hear from him u until 7.20 when he came intolerant room. (20 minutes after his gro clock turns on).

We had a nap on the lounge today for an hour 2-3, poor bub was very tired and asleep quickly. I had a movie on the tv ready to go so he wasn't too grumpy.

I've always put him down at 7 because I figure taking an hour to go to sleep then gives him more sleep than when he does it with a later bedtime as he still wakes at the same time.

[labrodyk]

I'm hoping you can help me make sense of this...

Yesterday I offered him a 1hr quiet time/nap on the lounge and he was asleep in a few minutes (after 5 days of no nap) and the night wakings.

Nap: 2-3
BT: 7.20. Not asleep until 8.30.
WU: was awake when I checked on him at 6.10 but lay quietly in bed.

Today however he has been an absolute basket case. Crying over silly things since he got up and fighting quiet time, a nap or any sort of rest yet is considerably tired.

I'm not quite sure what I'm doing. I've been trying to keep him in the one spot for some quiet time since 1pm, he's finally fallen asleep just after 1.30 I think. Gave him roughly a sleep cycle and turned the tv on to avoid tantrums. About 2.20 he stirred I think.

Hmmm, so very confused.

[jessmum46]

I think it's part and parcel of the 1-0, it does get rather messy for most I'm afraid . Perhaps a 1h nap was too long and led to UT at bedtime despite being OT from the day?  How about trying catnaps instead (if you can get them) on days where he seems to be struggling?  Just 20 mins or so to tide him over/take the edge off the tiredness?  And I would stick with a set BT if you are having lots of NNDs.  Hang in there and hopefully he will start regulating his sleep a little better.  You may also get some later WUs . Have you considered trying W2S on those early mornings?

[labrodyk]

Thanks Katherine. How do you offer a catnap? I mean, H wakes and immediately starts crying and screaming "go away I'm still sleeping". It's impossible considering he's never self regulated!

Have tried W2S but it's just not happening. He either wakes completely and then stays awake, or stirs but wakes at usual time anyway.

[jessmum46]

Just wake him after 20 mins.  You may be surprised, he won't be in deep sleep so may be a lot easier to rouse.  I'd do it out and about if you can and have a distraction ready. 

[labrodyk]

I can try, it's a bit hard as I'm quite isolated without transport and am home most days. Should it be at a set time?

[patsy32]

Hi  Laura, just popping in to offer some hugs and let you know we went through/are going through the exact same as you with nap dropping. My dd will be 2.5 yrs in a few weeks and it could have been me writing your post.
Katherine also helped me so much and offered great advise and support  (Hi Katherine 
My dd also had a nap every day if offered and I always believed the more sleep she got the better until it started to have the opposite effect!  She would have a 1 hr nap every day from roughly 2.30-3.30, however, this started to give us long chatty nw's every 2nd night or just very unsettled sleep.  With Katherines help and advice I cut the nap to 20 min and offered it only every 3rd day if needed. I also brought bedtime forward and at a set time. Apart from a couple of blips along the way this is working out well for us (major jinx coming up soon because of this) 
In the beginning we were getting a lot of nw's which I think were mostly due to a habit started by myself and DH of taking her into our bed when we couldn't resettle her. Got that sorted and now we're battling ew's whichresults in her waking an hr earlier than she has ever done in her life which means we are only getting 11 hrs sleep with/without a nap but working on that too so fingers crossed .
My advice is set a bt and stick with it and also reduce length of nap to 20 min as Katherine suggested above. It wount be overnight success but we will all get through this (hopefully )
Carmel x

[labrodyk]

Thank you so much Carmel and Katherine! It's so nice to know I'm not alone.

We had that short 40min nap and waking by 2.20 yesterday. BT was 7pm and took about 45-60mins but quietly laying in bed. No NW's.

Should I offer that everyday from 1.30ish? Or cap at 20mins from the same time every day or only every few days?

[jessmum46]

Hi Carmel, thanks for popping in to support and good to hear you guys are doing ok

My feeling with the 20 min nap would be its so short it really doesn't matter what time you do it.  We did mid-afternoon but whenever really.  You kind of have to play it by ear, we used to offer one every 2-3 days to begin with and then just as and when she appeared to be getting very cranky x

[labrodyk]

Thank you! Will do.

And bedtime? We had a wake up somewhere after 6.40am from the 40min nap so yesterday was a no nap day. On a NND in sticking to a 6.30 bedtime but from mid afternoon he is SO hyperactive it's crazy and is waking before 6am. He's just started chatting at 5.57AM so has obviously been awake for a little while.... Annoying as we have an engagement party today which will be another NND and I don't really want any meltdowns! Argh, toddlers and sleep send me mental. Lol

And with the 20min nap, BT at 7 should be okay? Ideally I'd like to keep that time....

[labrodyk]

Harry was in bed at 6.30 last night, asleep by 6.45. How much night sleep should he be getting on NND? He keeps waking at 6 or earlier...staying in bed until 7 but chatting, singing or laying quietly.