2.5yo - to nap or not to nap, that is the question?!

[creations]

And is he still tired and cranky in the day?
Are his nights OK even though they are only about 10hrs?

[labrodyk]

He's definitely not completely happy, you can see he gets tired and cranky quite quickly early morning around 9/9.30 so we try to get out...

Nights are okay in that we don't have the night wakings, just the early mornings which is 50/50 whether he wakes and calls out or just lays quietly for 2 hours!!!

[creations]

Not sure what else you can do. I realise he is not 100% happy but it looks like this could be just about all you can expect until you can properly and fully drop the nap. Looks like 11 to 11.5hrs sleep in 24 is that right?  That was all mine did too until the nap went and then he worked up to 12hr nights.

Unless you feel you want to try going for a cold turkey nap drop now? See what happens over a week?

[labrodyk]

Creations, you're right ... It's all he can do. 11-11.5hrs/24 hours absolute MAX and perhaps even as low as 10.5 some days.

I was thinking about dropping the nap CT but as I'm not getting any major dramas with the sleeps (although very low in quantity) I don't think he's ready. I'm certainly not ready either with severe pelvic pain at 26 weeks pregnant so perhaps not a good time to go CT on nap.

I'll see what happens over the next few days - today went something like the below. I'm really curious why he wakes half way through the second  sleep cycle. He slept 1.55-2.35, stirred and fell back to sleep. then 20mins later he stirred again and then woke fully at 3. despite the sun on his gro clock he stays in bed sucking his finger and rolling around - I presume trying to get back to sleep.

WU: 6.00
Nap: 1.40, asleep 1.55 - 3.00 tried to get back to sleep but couldn't and got OOB at 3.20
*was a bit upset and cried wanting to watch a movie  but wasn't too bad.
BT: 7.05, asleep 7.45

thanks so much for your help though, I think some OT behavior may have been curbed by the earlier nap but it's so hard to know. I try everything to try and get him more sleep but he just won't do it. Haha.

[creations]

I suspect that his crying and upset mood when he wakes from his nap is due to being UT and feeling dopey from the nap.  I know I feel rough if I sleep in the day, really rough, DS does too. When they are babies they seem to have their nap then ping awake and alert but as they get older it's more like an adult's sleep where a day time nap might be needed (for instance tired parents need to get a nap in the day) but then feel really groggy when they wake and take more time to recover from that grogginess. Maybe being moaning or being clingy as a result (it's the same feeling I get if I have a long lie in in the morning - I vaguely remember a few of those in the distant past )
I think it's just something to go with for the time being, take it as a sign he is well rested rather than something you can fix, and as you say, you don't feel ready to drop the nap right now so this is just an interim period.

Sorry to hear you have pelvic pain

[labrodyk]

Thanks for your help Creations. For some strange reason the last 2 nights have both been close to 11hrs night sleep + an hours day sleep.

Wednesday 8-July
WU: 5.55
OOB: 7.00
Nap: 1.40, asleep 2.00 - awake 3.10. OOB 3.28
BT: 7.05, asleep 7.45

Thursday 9-July
WU: 6.30/6.45 (?!)
OOB: 7.00
Nap: 1.40, asleep 2.10 - 3.10. Dozed and OOB at 3.30
BT: 7.05, called out mummy at 7.20, asleep 7.55

Friday 10-July
WU: 6.45

I'm thinking that any tweaking may disrupt this little blip/phase but I don't want to hit an UT loop or anything...
Why is it that if I capped the nap I couldn't replicate a longer night? Lol. I'm not complaining and I'm sure it will go out the window (we're house sitting for the next week so should be interesting...) just wondered what your thoughts may be?

[creations]

Well a funny thing happened with DS's night lengthening too. His night had gone very short which was my cue to try to cap or do NNDs, neither worked though, disaster. He'd been having a 2hr nap. By the end of my trials I was kind of trying to do a gentle cap at 1.5hr (rather than let him sleep 2hrs) and accepting the very short nights, I took it that he just needed to do this long nap and short night to get to an older age where he could cope with the nap drop better, but really capping at all meant he was in a foul mood the rest of the day so I was very hesitant to do it and often he ended up back at the 2hr nap...but his nights did lengthen a bit making it all manageable.  I'd have to look it up to know exact times but I think he went down as low as 9hrs or less ONS and then lengthened back to more like 10.

So I have no explanation but did experience similar.
I would just keep going as you are even if it only lasts a short while it will do for now yk?  The longer you can 'get through' on anything near manageable the older LO gets and the more chance there is of being ready for the final nap drop.
When the nap drop does come it could be very sudden and of course there could be a period of short nights and some grouchiness from OT but the night should then lengthen again over time.
It was a long transition period for us - I couldn’t' believe other people IRL managed to drop the nap as LO turned 2yo and had NO problems!

[labrodyk]

You make total sense Creations and that's exactly what I'm trying to do - find what's manageable.

Today I really should have got him up...

Friday 10-July
WU: 6.45
Nap: 1.40 - lay awake for an hour chatting and singing and carrying on, fell asleep SECONDS before his gro clock sun came out. We let him go 2.40-3.40 with a kind of 'soft wake/cap'
BT: 7.05. He's had two trips to the toilet not doing anything in 45 minutes but finally fell asleep at 8.05. Oops!!
^^ we aren't at home so that could be part of it.
NW: 3.15, crying to do a wee so took him - nappy was dry and he did a wee. Just took a while to get back to sleep, at 4.15 so an hour

Saturday 11-July
WU: 6.30

1) should I adapt nap time based on wake or just keep at 1.40?
2) should I cap the time in bed if not fallen asleep - perhaps a little shorter than an hour or is that not enough "rest"?

[creations]

1) should I adapt nap time based on wake or just keep at 1.40?

I'd leave nap time where it is unless WU is significantly later.

2) should I cap the time in bed if not fallen asleep - perhaps a little shorter than an hour or is that not enough "rest"?

If he's fussing in bed I'd get him up, if he is properly resting I'd leave him to it.

[labrodyk]

Thank you!
Interesting, we've only had 9hrs as a result of yesterday. Perhaps I should get him up if he's not asleep after 40mins or so.

Before this morning, wake up has been 45mins to an hour later 5.45/6 to 6.45....

Saturday 11-July
WU: 6.30
NND.
BT: 6.20, asleep 6.30
NW: 4.25-5.45. Came to my room asking for the toilet but didn't need to go when I took him. Fell back to sleep for an hour.

Sunday 11-July
WU: 6.45
OOB: 7.00
Nap: 1.40, asleep 2.15 - 3.30. Dozed until 3.50 then OOB.
BT: 7.00, asleep at 8.05

Monday 12-July
WU: 5.50
OOB: 7.00
Nap: 1.40, asleep 1.55 - 3.05. Spoke over the monitor to encourage him to get up and OOB at 3.15
BT: 7.00, asleep 7.45

[labrodyk]

Hello again! How would you proceed with earlier mornings, taking a while to settle at nap time and again at bedtime? We've had a few NND but he's only doing a max of 11hrs so it's 6.30 (6.45 asleep) - 5.30 wide awake.  When I say WU at 6 it could be a lot earlier but he's awake on the monitor when I check and waits for Mr Sun at 7.00.

Here's a snapshot of our last week. His behavior and mood isn't too bad but on NND he is a crazy , defiant lunatic around 5pm...

Sunday 19-July
WU: 6.30!?
Nap: 1.10 (crying he wanted quiet time), lay quietly until 2.10 - NND
BT: 6.30, asleep 6.40

Monday 20-July
WU: 6ish
Nap: 1.35, asleep 1.45 - 3.05 lay quietly a little longer before I got him up at 3.15
BT: 7.05, asleep by 7.45

Tuesday 21-July
WU: 6.00
Nap: 1.35, asleep 2.00 - 3.30 (I woke him)
BT: 7.00, asleep 7.35

Wednesday 22-July
WU: 6.10
OOB: 7.00
Nap: 1.30, asleep 2.15 - 3.30 (I woke him)
BT: 7.00, asleep 7.45
 
Thursday 23-July
Nap: 1.45, asleep 2.15 - 3.30 (I woke him)
BT: 7.55, asleep 8.15.
NW: 4.40 (couldn't find his pants?! Lol). Lay quietly until 6.30

Friday 24-July
WU: 6.30 chatting
OOB: 7.00
NND
BT: 6.30, asleep 6.45

Saturday 25-July
WU: 5.30, calling out for dropped toys. Returned them but he never went back to sleep.

[creations]

The nap days look good. Roughly 11.5hr total sleep in 24hr, is that right?
I think I'd continue with that as long as you can.

[labrodyk]

11/11.5 hour days on those he naps but I'm waking by 3.30 to try and maintain 7pm BT. Just seems that nap he can take an hour to fall asleep at if he's had a few good night/day sleeps.

DH said today he went down at 1.30 (asleep 1.50) and woke at 3.20 but OOB at 3.30. However, he was SO ridiculously hyperactive it was insane. We then had a 30minute meltdown just as we were hopping into bed over flushing the toilet and that he wanted his wee to come back out of the toilet (?!) which took a few white lies to get him to calm down from. BT 7.15, asleep 8.15!

It's just these early mornings which seem to do our heads in. Once Mr Sun is up at 7.00 he can already have been awake for 1.5hrs so sometimes by 7.30/8.00 or mid morning he is an absolute basket case.

[labrodyk]

Hmmm,  barely 9.5hrs ONS last night waking and having a chat at 5.40am!

[labrodyk]

Such random naps, random wakes and tantrums like crazy. ..developmental? Or should I be tweaking something. These early mornings are killing me!

Saturday 25-July
WU: 5.30, calling out for dropped toys. Returned them but he never went back to sleep.
Nap: 1.30, asleep 1.50 - 3.20. OOB 3.30
BT: 7.15 - major tantrum over nonsense. Asleep 8.15.

Sunday 26-July
WU: 5.30
Nap: 2-2.40 (car)
* absolute horrific tantrum again, but in the shops from 3.50-4.20. screaming all the way home in the car. 
BT: what should I do?!