Author Topic: 6 months old, LSN ? , NW. Need to fix routine  (Read 4588 times)

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Offline momt2girls

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Re: 6 months old, LSN ? , NW. Need to fix routine
« Reply #15 on: June 12, 2015, 11:46:31 am »
Honestly, i don't think smth is going on here. I don't see any teeth as yet. She eats well...

We did 3h A yesterday and 2 1h30 mins naps, BT 7.10 p.m. She woke up every 1h30 all night long. I was helping her to resettle and it was taking us about 15-20 mins. Resettle was easier then before, less screaming and more mantra crying. She was pretty good throughout the day and was going down much easier as well. I BF her every other wake up at night, tonight will try to eliminate one BF.
What do u think?

How long do I stay on 3h A time before I can assess the results? And how do I change the routine if our nights do not improve? Thank you.

I always need to have a plan, otherwise i will lose my mind. I am supprised i can function after such a long sleep deprivation. And the only place where i can find support and understanding is here... And that is so important...

Offline jessmum46

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Re: 6 months old, LSN ? , NW. Need to fix routine
« Reply #16 on: June 12, 2015, 12:50:25 pm »
Wakings that frequent suggest to me prop, overtired or discomfort.  From the day you posted I wouldn't think overtired, sounds perfect to be honest.  I guess there is a chance for a very LSN baby that they could be UT wakings??  But usually UT wakings would be a long cot party, not frequent waking all night long.

When you don't BF at night how do you settle her?  Does she ever settle herself?

Offline momt2girls

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Re: 6 months old, LSN ? , NW. Need to fix routine
« Reply #17 on: June 12, 2015, 15:55:38 pm »
When i don't BF at night I do whatever works. She cannot sleep face up and when she is trying to settle she flips over from her tummy on her back and starts crying, so first I flip her back on her tummy and press on her bottom so that she doesn't flip any more (that and little pat used to put her back to sleep but not anymore), make white noise louder, rub her head, whisper to her that she needs to sleep, if she puts her head down i just stand there and wait, holding her buttom. I introduced a muslin lovey to her so I give a bunny ear to chew on and it does help her to calm down. If her head is up and crying, i start giving a little jiggle to the bed and she usually puts her head down and gets qiet, i stop jiggling and wait... Jiggle is a new thing but I am desperate and do whatever i can to avoid all that fight. I want to see how much sleep she actually needs even with a prop. I would then work on elemintating the props... Don't know if that is the right road to go though..
She does selfsettle around 5-6 a.m. every day for the past week or so.
I got her a new pj, we lowered the temperature in the house, i put Benadryl on her mosquito bites in case if that is a problem.
This a.m. She was so tired that she fell asleep within a minute after i put her down A 2h52. I carry her around the house for about 15-20 mins before putting her down and so far this works and she gets relaxed and doesn't fight much if she fights at all. So with her being so tired this morning may be she does have an accumulated OT from all those NW.



Offline jessmum46

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Re: 6 months old, LSN ? , NW. Need to fix routine
« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2015, 08:27:15 am »
My inclination would be to deal with the potential props, actually.  Without independent sleep it can be really hard to see where routine may be causing issues.  She will be more tired if she isn't getting a proper nights sleep, and if she needs your help for some time every time she wakes she will be losing out on rest.  I would give some consideration to sleep training at night as I don't think you will get a real sense of her sleep needs without it. 

Offline Martini~

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Re: 6 months old, LSN ? , NW. Need to fix routine
« Reply #19 on: June 13, 2015, 08:48:08 am »
Agree with Katherine.
~Marta

Offline momt2girls

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Re: 6 months old, LSN ? , NW. Need to fix routine
« Reply #20 on: June 13, 2015, 11:29:51 am »
So you suggest PU/PD?
« Last Edit: June 13, 2015, 11:35:25 am by momt2girls »

Offline momt2girls

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Re: 6 months old, LSN ? , NW. Need to fix routine
« Reply #21 on: June 14, 2015, 11:30:41 am »
Update. I started pushing her A to 3.15 and the nights are getting better. Not great yet, but much better and she is so much easier to settle :)

Offline jessmum46

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Re: 6 months old, LSN ? , NW. Need to fix routine
« Reply #22 on: June 15, 2015, 18:12:06 pm »
That's great news :). When you are ready you can use PUPD, shh pat (or a variation) or just sit by the cot and reassure using your voice/gentle back rub as needed, then gradually reduce the amount you do x

Offline momt2girls

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Re: 6 months old, LSN ? , NW. Need to fix routine
« Reply #23 on: June 17, 2015, 15:13:01 pm »
Thank you Katherine. Shh/pat doesn't work anymore, i place my hand on her and use white noise. She still needs my hand. When the routine is more stable i will start reducing "hand" time. That was our day yesterday. I feed her every 4 hours.
WU 7.05
A    7.05-10.20 (3h15)
S    10.20-11.50 (1h30)
A.    11.50-15.05 (3h15)
S.    15.05-16.20 (1h15) i woke her as it looks like she needs A at least 3h30 before BT
A.    16.20-19.55 (3.35)
BT   19.55
NW.  22.30 BF, back to sleep
NW.  2.40 BF back to sleep

WU 7.25 she woke up crying (my alarm died and we overslept)

What do u think?

Oh, looks like if she goes to bed UT, she will fight hard and goes into OT, that's why I postpone her BT as she doesn't look tired enough.
And she had long quiet night wakings about 1h30 mins each two nights in a row around 3-5 a.m. when she had 2 naps 1h30. I cut her last nap to 1h15 2 days now and no long NW.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2015, 15:20:51 pm by momt2girls »

Offline jessmum46

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Re: 6 months old, LSN ? , NW. Need to fix routine
« Reply #24 on: June 19, 2015, 20:47:55 pm »
That doesn't look too bad :) maybe a touch OT at bedtime (remember if you have capped the nap she may not need as long of an A time afterwards as if she had woken naturally rested) but I would say you are starting to get a good sense of what she needs. How are you finding the routine is working for your family?

Offline momt2girls

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Re: 6 months old, LSN ? , NW. Need to fix routine
« Reply #25 on: June 23, 2015, 12:07:14 pm »
Thx for your follow up. This routine works good for us although we are getting more NW. I pushed her A yesterday to 3.30 but we still got NW. She went easy to 3.30 and was happy all day which is very unusual for her. Here is what we got yesterday
WU 7.00
A 7.00-10.27
E bf 7.30, solids 8.30
S 10.27-11.57
A 11.57-15.26
E bf 12.00, solids 13.00
S 15.26-16.30
A 16.30-19.30 (3h)
E bf 16.30, 19.00
BT 19.30
NW 22.15- 22.35 crying, bf, sleep
Nw 1.15-1.30 woke up quietly, started crying when i tried to resettle with my hand and loud white noise
NW 3.15-3.45 played quietly for 15 mins,bf, sleep
Nw 6.30 she went back on her own till i woke her
Wu 7.00

What do u think?
I would like to stay on 3.30 and may be do some tweaking if necessary. On her late NW she wakes quietly but some time later gets fussy. Sometimes she resettles herself. She has a little cold right now and like 10 mosquito bites again (i put benedryl on her before bedtime) if that plays any role in her NW.
May be i should cut BF at night to 1?
What else can be done?

Offline jessmum46

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Re: 6 months old, LSN ? , NW. Need to fix routine
« Reply #26 on: June 25, 2015, 06:29:10 am »
The day looked pretty textbook to be honest, it could be the last A was bit too much for her, or that in fact she would prefer a longer pm nap, some babies do seem to be like that.  Colds can definitely upset night sleep, as can any sort of reliance on you to resettle.  May be worth trying to cut that BF around 22.00, I can't imagine she's actually hungry then if she fed well at BT?  I know people often say quiet/long NWs around 3/4ish are UT but I'm not sure that's the only reason.  I wouldn't have said her daytime sleep was excessive, not unless she is really LSN?  But what's your feeling? 

Offline momt2girls

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Re: 6 months old, LSN ? , NW. Need to fix routine
« Reply #27 on: June 25, 2015, 12:30:21 pm »
I am at such a loss right now. I just cannot find what is right for her. She gets fussy when tired but before BT she doesn't show anything at all just keeps playing happily and when I try to put her by the book/clock she puts up a fight and goes in overdrive and there is basically nothing that can put her to seep at that point untill she is completely exhausted and relaxes at BF. ( can take several  BF attempts) . I am afraid putting her UT more than anything else.
She was doing pretty good at A 3.15 ( a bit OT at BT as you say) for 3 days, but then she started cutting her naps at 1.10-1.25 or had quiet long NW. So i tried A 3.30 and it was good for 1 day, the same daytime routines but BT and night became a disaster. Day 1 she was tired after A 3h before BT and to sleep easy, day 2 no tired signs and I tried the same time as day 1 and got a fight with screaming. The longer I try to settle her, the more angry she becomes and the longer she will stay awake and she will not even nurse at that point, just keep screaming.
Oh, i am having a very hard time resettling her if she goes from UT to OT.
She can handle 1 BF at night I think and i was gonna try it but with our nights so crappy i want to wait.
You say longer p.m. nap. What do you mean? Cut the a.m. nap?
It does look like she is catching up on her a.m. nap for a poor night sleep...

Offline momt2girls

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Re: 6 months old, LSN ? , NW. Need to fix routine
« Reply #28 on: June 25, 2015, 12:37:47 pm »
I am afraid to try PU/ PD or any other alternative at this point. When she gets overworked she is inconsolable, starts shaking... I tried it a couple of times and gave up after 30 mins of constant screaming, she keeps screaming even if you hold her, rock her, swing her, trying to nurse...

What else can i do at this point?

Let me add that I do try to remove my hand from her as soon as I can if she looks relaxed and tired. And before i BF at night I try to settle her first with my hand, but i give up after 5 mins if I see that it is going nowhere.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2015, 15:09:14 pm by momt2girls »

Offline jessmum46

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Re: 6 months old, LSN ? , NW. Need to fix routine
« Reply #29 on: June 26, 2015, 07:02:35 am »
(((Hugs))), I know how frustrating it can be.  My DS was really hard work at night no matter what I tried until 9/10 months, he still doesn't sleep through reliably even now (but is far better) but the things that made the biggest difference for us were cutting the night feeds once he was ready (he didn't need a feed to settle, but definitely had some habit night feeds which I had to actively wean) and being totally consistent with how we dealt with NWs.  It is so hard to tell whether routine or something else is up if LO frequently needs your help, particularly nursing to settle at NWs, at least that's what I found.  My feeling was if I could eliminate hunger as a reason for waking, and I could be sure I wasn't APing in a different way (rocking, holding etc) then I could more confidently try to tweak the routine. Now you are at a tricky age in that respect as one or two night feeds would be totally normal for a 6 month old.  But I do think at least one long stretch is reasonable to expect. 

So with feeds, I can't remember if I said before but I would personally just try not to feed any earlier than you did the previous night.  So if night one is 10pm, night two you settle all wakings before 10pm (including if it takes you past that time before she settles) and then feed at the next one.  Doing that in literally a day or two we moved our feed from 10/11pm to 3.30/4 in the morning!  In terms of settling, DS did not respond to me intervening much at all, it only served to wind him up even more.  So I decided the best course for him was just to 'be' with him, rather than 'do' anything, because ultimately what I wanted was for him to settle himself, not for me to have to do anything.  So I would sit/lie beside his cot, occasionally shhh, maybe put a hand on his hand or back to calm him or stroke his hair, but not pick him out of the cot.  Once calm I tried to leave, but sometimes if but went on a while I stayed until he slept and then left.  It did take over an hour of full-on screaming on a few occasions but subsequent times were much much quicker, and he was never left alone, I was with him any time he was doing an 'I need you' cry. 

The other thing that helped here was to really listen to him, his mantra/cross cry was extremely loud too but didn't necessarily require me to be in there.  I'd definitely made the mistake of rushing in a bit too quickly and giving him more space seemed to help if he didn't really need me.

Routine wise does she manage those high A times easily or does she show sleep cues beforehand?