Author Topic: 2.5yo emw  (Read 926 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Ilmb

  • New & Learning The Ropes
  • *
  • Showing Appreciation 0
  • Posts: 39
  • Location:
2.5yo emw
« on: June 07, 2015, 06:11:06 am »
My 2.5yo use to be an amazing 7-7 sleeper (wed wake her!) since arrival of her litre brother (7mo) her sleep has been poor. We've sorted through night wakings but can't seem to fix her early morning (from 4.30) wakes.

She wakes, gets out of bed and comes to get daddy. (I've been bf so dealing with baby, not anymore but toddler insists on daddy) He goes back with her. She normally goes straight back to sleep but if he tries to sneak out she hears & gets unsettled. So basically for last few months he's been staying in there while she sleeps on/off till 6 then she's awake.

She dropped her nap couple months ago, sometimes still has one if driving. Will always have downtime over midday. She is absolutely knackered by bedtime & doesn't tend to even stay awake for 1 page of story & asleep by 6.35.

Recently potty trained but still in night time nappy which is dry most days.

Have tried gro clock to little success.

In 2 weeks she's going to be moving bedroom. I'm going back to work in 4.

Any tips??? Thanks

Offline creations

  • Feeding Solid Food & EASY
  • Forum Moderator
  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 496
  • Posts: 21993
  • Location: UK
Re: 2.5yo emw
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2015, 10:38:58 am »
Quite a lot going on there!
Any one of those things could disturb sleep so to have a combination must be tricky.

Have you tried a W2S before the 4.30 NW?  It sounds like she is otherwise an independent sleeper but has got into a habit of coming for Daddy at 4.30am, you might avoid this and cut the habit if you did a W2S at around 4/4.15am to kick start another sleep cycle. She clearly is still tired as she is going back to sleep once she has the reassurance from Daddy.

I would also start up the gro-clock again. Be clear, when the sun is not there it is night time, she must go back to sleep. Be prepared to help her stay in her room waiting for the sun to come up if necessary. I'd have sun set to come up at 6am initially so she can have some success, then move it out by 5 or 10 mins every few nights.  It's important not to send her back to bed or tell her to sleep more after sun is up.

Does she have a lovey? If she does you can talk to her in the day about how she can use her lovey at night for a cuddle.


Offline Ilmb

  • New & Learning The Ropes
  • *
  • Showing Appreciation 0
  • Posts: 39
  • Location:
Re: 2.5yo emw
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2015, 22:11:27 pm »
Hi, thanks for reply
she wakes at a different time every day (ranging 4.30-6) so not sure when we'd do w2s. What would you suggest?

The sun is set to come up at 6.15 and husband always stays in with her quietly until sun comes up. Will try & push this even more.

She sucks her fingers as comfort & has several teddies/dolls in with her. will try pushing them as well.
Thanks

Offline creations

  • Feeding Solid Food & EASY
  • Forum Moderator
  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 496
  • Posts: 21993
  • Location: UK
Re: 2.5yo emw
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2015, 08:59:08 am »
You could try a W2S at 4am even though her WU is different each day, it can still kick start another cycle and break the habit of coming for daddy.  You could even try it when you go to bed instead, this does seem to work for some.

I would see if Daddy can do some WI/WO so that he can be out of the room when the sun comes up, this means one of his returns it is 'day' and he can go in with a big smiles and a cheery "good morning!" rather than it seeming like everyone is waiting for this sun to come.
I would anyway suggest some WI/WO or verbal reassurance from outside the room, you can be quite firm in your tone (or rather Daddy can be), not nasty but very clear "it's night time, go to sleep". So on the the first return when she comes to get Daddy he takes her to her bed and says "it's night time, go to sleep" and leaves the room. Then after this if she calls he either goes in (WI/WO) and says the phrase or repeats from outside the room. Sometimes a few WI/WOs are needed before verbal reassurance without going in, for others the WI/WO is more of a disturbance so they respond better to just the verbal.

I would also suggest he does not try to sneak out - it can be quite unsettling for some LOs. She may actually respond much better to knowing openly he is not going to stay rather than fearing him sneaking away. So, if she falls to sleep when he is in the room he can say "I'm going now, call if you need me" and leave the room.  She can either wake and Daddy deals with that or she can continue to sleep having heard him in her sleep.  If she does wake and complains of him leaving he can say "It's night time, I need to go to bed. Everything is ok, go to sleep" and then on the repeats from outside or during WI/WO just "go to sleep".

Really it's about finding a balance, she needs to be responded to if she is up or calling in the night, but equally you need to let her know everyone needs their sleep, including Daddy.


Offline Ilmb

  • New & Learning The Ropes
  • *
  • Showing Appreciation 0
  • Posts: 39
  • Location:
Re: 2.5yo emw
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2015, 04:27:52 am »
Thanks for your reply
Oh gosh-tried WI/WO this morning at 4.30 wake up & it resulted in sooooo much crying/screaming & waking baby. He's ended up staying in room but at door (I think).
How do you do this with a baby too?!
Should we have persevered despite the crying?


Offline creations

  • Feeding Solid Food & EASY
  • Forum Moderator
  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 496
  • Posts: 21993
  • Location: UK
Re: 2.5yo emw
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2015, 08:51:39 am »
Changing anything can bring on a bout of frustrated crying and shouting - so long as she is reassured with the returning (WIWO) and verbal then she is fine. Whilst we do need to respond to our children's cries (or shouts) for help/attention we do not need to be held hostage in a toddlers room for weeks or months on end.
As for waking baby, that's another issue.  Some babies just sleep through noise once they are in deep sleep.  But if this is a problem then perhaps a gradual withdrawal instead?  So if Daddy already made it to the door today then continue with that and take small steps from there every couple of days.
It begins then with Daddy returning her to bed when she comes to him, verbal reassurance, tell her it is night time everyone is sleeping, she must sleep.  Tuck her back in bed and walk directly to the door, he can say "I'll be right here, I'm with you, go to sleep" and park himself at the door.  If he needs to lay down and doze I'd suggest doing it as close to the door as is possible, just inside the room.
After 2 nights he can move to outside the door. Continue the verbal reassurance from outside, if she cries and screams he can go in, reassure her and go back to his place outside the door.
If however he can't make it to the door due to the level of crying then he would need to start right by her bed where he has been up to now and take much smaller steps in the GW process. This is a longer process. A couple of nights near her bed, a couple of nights a little further away and so on.
There's some information here:
Toddlers: Walk In/Walk Out vs. The Gradual Withdrawal Method (HOW TO CHOOSE)

What you (and Daddy) need to consider in choosing which method is the best for the whole family. At the moment everyone is losing sleep because your 2.5 yo is demanding Daddy be with her from 4am. You already know this isn't ideal. Being 2.5 is hard anyway, and can bring on bouts of separation anxiety, in addition she has been through some changes in her life which is a big deal.  You need to be understanding and sympathetic to her need...but equally you need to think about everyone else's sleep.  No one does their best parenting when they are exhausted from spending half the night in a toddlers room.  Standing firm with WI/WO may be noisy and disruptive to all for fewer nights. GW may be calmer but take much longer.

I think I'd be tempted to give her one good EBT too. It sounds like she is tired and perhaps needs one catch up night with a little extra sleep. Maybe just 15-30 min earlier could do the trick to help her relax more and sleep better at that early waking.

Did you try the W2S by the way?  This is probably the least disruptive of all the methods if/when it works.  W2S was a life saver for me when we dropped to 1 nap, I couldn’t have lived without it. I didn't personally get success on the early waking with it, many do though so it is worth a go - and follow up with WIWO or GW if she still wakes. The beauty if W2S when it works is that she doesn't wake at all so you don't have to deal with the SA.


Offline Ilmb

  • New & Learning The Ropes
  • *
  • Showing Appreciation 0
  • Posts: 39
  • Location:
Re: 2.5yo emw
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2015, 16:25:07 pm »
Thank you so mich for all your help!
Just quick question... With w2s... What do you actually do? Go in at 4 & fully wake her?

Offline creations

  • Feeding Solid Food & EASY
  • Forum Moderator
  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 496
  • Posts: 21993
  • Location: UK
Re: 2.5yo emw
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2015, 17:48:31 pm »
Sorry, I thought you were familiar with it.  Here's a FAQ
How do I address habitual wakings? (wake-to-sleep and other methods)
It will be the first section for habitual night waking.
You only slightly disturb her rather than fully wake, let me know if you have any more questions :)