Author Topic: 22mo very short nights and EWs  (Read 1459 times)

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Offline KatyBee

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22mo very short nights and EWs
« on: June 07, 2015, 07:23:12 am »
I posted here a couple of months ago about my son's short nights and at the time there were quite a few things going on (speech, teeth etc) and so I guess I was hoping things might sort themselves out gradually - but things are still no better and I'm really wondering if there is anything I can do to improve my son's routine? Snapshot of last couple few days:


w/u 5:45am
Nap 10:20-10:50am - in the car  ::)
BT 7:30pm

Short NW I think

Thurs
w/u 6am
Nap 12:30 - 1:15pm - he woke naturally from this, fairly happy
BT 8pm

I think he STTN

Fri
w/u 5:45am
Nap - 9:35-10:35 - we were in the car and there was no way to keep him awake - he seemed very tired:(
BT - 7:30pm

1 NW for 50 mins @ 12:30am

Sat
w/u - 5:30am
Nap - 12:10-1:45pm - DH woke him at this point as this is a long nap for my DS & they impact can BT
BT - 7:45pm

STTN

Sun
w/u - 4:45am

I put him back in bed this morning and tried to BF back to sleep for over an hour - but no chance! He was quite upset so maybe there was something else going on? But I don't know how many months that can or should be the excuse?

He is often only doing 9hrs total sleep (8hrs after long naps) and v rarely more than 10hrs. In the last few weeks we have tried NND, short naps and he has also taken some 2-3 hour naps at the weekends (whilst i'm at work so Daddy putting him down) and been really, really hard to wake up if DH has tried to cap them. He seems tired a lot of the time.

We very rarely get any nap resistance and at the moment we are not getting the BT resistance we used to get either - just short nights and EWs. I stuck to an 8pm BT for over a month but recently as the EWs have gotten worse it's slipped back a bit because he is crashing out in the morning some days.

He is in a BBB so he just gets up and comes into our room early in the morning and I have never once been able to resettle him if this happens. I have purchased a gro-clock but I can't work out how that's going to help at the moment, I think he's too young and as he can just come into our room, he will.

I wondered if I should do lots of short nap days in a row even if he seems exhausted? I haven't been able to manage that recently as when he wakes early like today, he usually crashes out and only giving him 45mins nap makes the day incredibly long and it is also really tough to wake him up from the nap so sometimes I just have to leave him to sleep.

So i'm not sure what to do now? Would really appreciate any advice or insight. TIA

Offline anna*

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Re: 22mo very short nights and EWs
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2015, 07:50:28 am »
How about a gate at his bedroom door so he can't just come out? That in conjunction with a Groclock (really consistently applied) cures my terrible chronic EWer at 22 months.





Offline KatyBee

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Re: 22mo very short nights and EWs
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2015, 10:23:32 am »
How about a gate at his bedroom door so he can't just come out? That in conjunction with a Groclock (really consistently applied) cures my terrible chronic EWer at 22 months.

Thanks Anna, when he was in a cot and we were struggling with chronic EWs around the 2-1 I used to go in but leave him in the cot until 6am consistently and it never worked - I just had a screaming baby for potentially and hour or more. It was a horrible experience and we were very unpopular with our neighbours, so I have been very reluctant to gate him in. What eventually sorted those EWs was dropping to 1 nap... so I know this is probably schedule related and am hoping not to have to resort to the hours of crying that I know your suggestion will entail :(

I just cant tell what nap and bedtime combination to try to try to prevent him being so OT? I cant get any consistancy going as his w/us are getting earlier and his nap time and length is so varied, so I can't get a handle on whether the daytime sleep is too much or not enough!
« Last Edit: June 07, 2015, 10:25:36 am by KatyBee »

Offline anna*

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Re: 22mo very short nights and EWs
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2015, 10:31:35 am »
No, my little one never went back to sleep in the crib either :( we never solved it until he was able to understand the Grocloxk
I hope you'll get some useful feedback regarding the routine - I don't really feel qualified to comment as no tweaks ever made a hot of difference to my little boy. He might go later for a day or to but would always revert to5am





Offline KatyBee

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Re: 22mo very short nights and EWs
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2015, 10:51:16 am »
No, my little one never went back to sleep in the crib either :( we never solved it until he was able to understand the Grocloxk
I hope you'll get some useful feedback regarding the routine - I don't really feel qualified to comment as no tweaks ever made a hot of difference to my little boy. He might go later for a day or to but would always revert to5am

Yes I fear that is going to be the same here Anna :(

With the groclock, I'm a little unsure how to implement it. He has no interest in the storybook that goes with it, he understands that when the sun says goodnight it is sleepytime but he has never seen the sun come up yet as he has always been up and awake before it - so how do we start to implement it without the aforementioned hours of crying?

My husband just text to say that after a massive exhausted meltdown my son has crashed out at 11:20am.... this pattern is repeating itself every weekend now...  ::) 

I always end up saying let him sleep - as he is exhausted from the EW and it is so difficult to rouse him from those naps - but that just seems to be perpetuating the EWs.

If i get my DH to wake him at 12:30pm and do EBT of 7:30pm he is definitely going to be OT by BT- and in all liklihood we get a short night.... but if I let him sleep longer that impacts our night too. I guess we cant win really and I should just roll with it.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2015, 10:53:43 am by KatyBee »

Offline anna*

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Re: 22mo very short nights and EWs
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2015, 20:13:16 pm »
We were in just the same position as you, I had posts pages long on here, people trying to figure out if he was OT or UT or what was going on. Has your little one always been low sleep needs? He seems to be getting so little sleep. Listen, once my little boy started to go by the Groclock (it took about two weeks to get him to a 'normal' wake up time), he was getting more sleep at 24 months old than he was at 18 months. He would do 12 hours reliably every night, and a decent nap.

But yes for sure there is crying, just like there always in for sleep training.

And it all relies on how you respond when he wakes up at 5am.

We didn't use the storybook either. Here's what we did. We explained to Stan that if he looks at the clock and sees the moon, then it is night time and mummy and daddy are sleeping. If he sees the moon, his job is to stretch, grab his lovey, pull up his blanket and go back to sleep (we role-played this). If he sees the sun, that means it is morning and we can go downstairs for breakfast. Simple instructions, no room for confusion.

So he was regularly waking at 5am (had been since he was 10 months old, I was very tired). He was in a BBB and we had already put a gate up at the door because he would compulsively get out of bed at bedtime. I set the clock for 5.30am. The first morning, he wakes up, comes to the gate, screaming and crying because I'm not coming. That's OK. I had explained to him that mummy is asleep. This isn't like leaving an infant to cry it out, this is a toddler having a tantrum because he's not getting his way. Our bedroom was next door so I would periodically call out to him (calmly), "The moon is on your clock, mummy and daddy are asleep. Go back to bed now." At 5.30 am I went in, pointed out the sunshine on the clock, told him how happy I was to see him now that it's morning, lets go down for breakfast.

The next morning, he screamed for about 20 minutes but did quiet down. At 5.30 I went in and said how he did so well to wait for the sunshine.

The next morning, he cried for about 10 minutes, did go back to bed (but didn't go back to sleep). Awesome!

After that, he didn't cry any more, didn't get out of bed and more. I started to move the clock by 10 mins every couple of nights and pretty soon we were at 7am.

I remember one time I HAD to pee right at 5am, and the bathroom was right next to his bedroom, and I was so sure he would wake up and want to get up... I tiptoed past his room and looked through the 2" crack in the door and saw him wake up, look at the clock (moon), and he said 'Oh dear!' and lay down and went back to sleep. I could hardly believe it! I swear I would have paid £250 for that clock if I had known how well it would work. It's like a clock. Literally. You or I wake up at 4am, we look at the clock to know whether to get up or go back to sleep. This is the same thing for the kids.

But, you know it doesn't work magic by itself. You have to be 100% consistent that the day NEVER starts before the sun shows on the clock. And, it may be that he never goes back to sleep in which case you will need to look at routine etc. But at least YOU will be able to rest and get up at a decent hour.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2015, 07:51:11 am by anna* »