changing routine for 15 weeks during playschool drop offs/pick ups

[wilow]

Hi!
I just need some advise how to adopt and change routine for 15 week baby during playschool drop offs/pick ups.
I have DS1 - 2 years old and he is going to playschool 3 times a week. Start at 9 am finish at 12.30pm. I drive him with the car around 8.40am and pick him up around 12.30pm.
The problem I have is with my DS2 he wont take a long nap in car seat or pram to be honest as well. He naps only 30 minutes and does not matter if we move or stop. I try to leave him in car seat but he is crying and he is not able to go back to sleep. I also try put him in the crib but it doesn't work as well. He s crying and cant resettle. He doesn't have problem to do this if he fall asleep in the crib. Usually he sleep good at night.
So we end up with 2 really short naps in the morning. I put him to sleep afternoon in the crib but he doesn't sleep any longer then 1.40hr. By the evening he is so tired that doesn't want to feed - I BF him. I also have problem with DF then so e is awaking at night more often an WU at 6am.
I try change his routine from 3 to 4 hours but after short naps he cannot manage 1.45 hour A time. What I should do?? He is ok any other days. If I don't go for walk because he wont sleep in the pram - awake after 40 min. and will not back to sleep. I even bought snooze shade but it doesn't work for him.
thank you for any help.

[trimbler]

Hi wilow, I sympathise with your situation, I've also been working around preschool drop offs and collections this year, although ours is within walking distance (and hour round trip) so DD napped in the sling to start with, until her A times were long enough for her to take her first nap in her cot once we got home. You may be nearing that time now? I tried to arrange her night feedings and morning WU time so that I'd get her up and feed at the latest possible time to still be able to get out on time for preschool, so that she could last until we got home. Do you think you could do that or would she always fall asleep in the car seat however hard you tried to keep her awake? What happened here is that her first nap time would always be fixed at 9.20, which is the earliest I can get her down, but as her ideal morning A time increased, I'd wake her up gradually earlier. When she EWs I've let her chat/fuss a bit in her cot but always got her up at the same time, she's been fine with that and at least then she's still resting so won't get as tired. Of course I had to train DS to be super quiet when he got up before DD, we'd have our breakfast before she got up then feed her and go. What do you think?

[wilow]

Hi. Thx for response.
He was always getting up around 7 so I cant extend this I tried. Sometimes he is up 6.30am I do not go to him till 7am this is his feeding time and WU time. I tried to keep him awake in the car but he just fall asleep in the car seat. I wouldnt mind if he sleeps there but he is not able. He is independent sleeper most of the times and can go back to sleep if he is not too tired but he as to be in his cot. My older son cannot be quiet if I ask him he would scream more so I dont do that and if my DS2 tries to fall asleep in car seat he would jump around like crazy. So by the time we get to the car he is really tired. His second nap will start now just before I need to go pick up my older so I put him the car seat he would fall asleep but awaking when put in the car and then just sleeping with one eye open
The worse is that I cannot follow the easy in these days I dont know when to feed him and how long he should be awake ater short nap. Sometimes I think to put him earlier to sleep but then his feeding time is coming so Iam confuse what to do.

[trimbler]

Hmmm tricky! Sorry just reread and saw that your DS1 is only 2, harder to keep him quiet than a 4yo... I still wonder whether you can work on pushing his morning WU later, if you can get it to 7.30 then he might just make it until you get home? When does DS1 get up? Can he go somewhere where he won't disturb DS2 so much or is that not possible with the layout of your home? Something to consider anyway, but I appreciate that even if you get there, you need a solution for the meantime.

Do you have any other props you can use for getting him back to sleep after a short car nap? Just temporarily, until he can stretch his A times? Could you post a typical playschool and normal day so I can see what A times are working for him. Are you still doing a late pm catnap? I AP'd this for a while before DD was ready to drop it, can definitely help get to a decent BT with less OT, even if only 10mins.

Eg:
WU 6.30
Up and E 7am
S 9-9.30 in car (or whatever)
Etc...

[wilow]

Last few day everything went wrong with my DS2 he was napping great in his Moses basket but we moved him into cot last weekend and now I have all naps 45 min!!! help!! he wont resettle. Sometimes he does not cry but not sleeping as well....I try to extend his A time but it is not working now. His routine in good days and when we dont go to playschool or for walk in buggy

WU and BF 7am
A 1.40
S 8.40 - 10.00-10.15am
E 10.15am
A 1.40
S 11.50 - 1.30pm
E 1.30pm
A 1.40
S 3.10 - 4.40
E 4.40pm
A 1.20
CN 6pm - 30 min in the pram or swing
BT  routine7pm bath every second day, book or song
BF 7.30pm
sleep by 8pm
DF 10.30 - 11.00 for 12 minutes
NF around 3 or 4 am
WU between 6.30 - 7.00am

Last few days
WU 6am
BF 7am
A 2.30hr
S 8.40 - 9.20 cannot resettle
E 10.15
A 2hr
S 11.20 - 12.20 cannot resettle
E 1.30
A 2 hr
S 3.00 - 3.40 cannot resettle
E 4.40
S 6.00 - 6.30
BF 7.00
BT 7.30
Sleep 9.00pm
DF 10.pm
NF 3
WU 6 am

I try shush and pat but he is crying even more PU/PD does not work as well he is more awake then.

Wen we go to school the day goes like this
WU 7 and BF
Sleep in car for 30-40 min from 8.40 - 9.20
E 10.15
Sleep in cot from 11.45 to 12.15 I put him into car seat then sometimes he fall asleep for 20 minutes sometimes not
E 1.30
Sleep in cot 3.00 - 5.00
E 5.00
He does not take CN these days sometimes he might fall asleep for 30 min around 6pm
BT routine 7
BF 7.30
Sleep 8.30pm

He is using soother but only for falling asleep after he spites up. I dont swaddle him any more he does like to feel his hands.
I hope This make any sense Iam desperate now!!

[wilow]

I want to add that usually in the night he is sleeping nice after feed. I had few night when he wont go back to sleep after feed for 2hr from 3 till 5 then he is tired and it is some job to put him to sleep. He was sleeping great everywhere till he was 2mths after he refuses to sleep in car or buggy and now even in cot....

One more thing after short nap he is tired by time  have to feed him so he does not feed well and I dont really know when I should put him to sleep when I put him earlier all day going crazy he sleeps when I have to feed him so It is madness. When I put hi earlier should I let him sleep longer or only 1.40 minutes??

[trimbler]

(((hugs))) wilow, I know it's hard when they don't nap well especially when you have an older LO to attend to. Some more thoughts and questions...

There's a classic sleep regression around 4mo, I think some LOs start to experience it a little earlier, some later, so you can expect some shenanigans I'm afraid, but he will relearn in time... You might also need to do some more sleep training, the PU/pd board will help more with this, even if you're veering more towards shh pat than PU/pd. A times in general can start to increase too, although you'll need to be careful of OT after short naps.

Do you have any other prop you can use to guarantee a good nap, say, once a day, if needed? I found the sling to help a lot with this, for example, to keep OT at bay.

It may also take some time to get used to the new cot, is the room nice and dark? If not, maybe he can see more now through the cot bars and find it harder to resettle after a short nap?

When you say he won't resettle, are you trying right up until the next feed, or do you get him up and then feed after a period of activity? If the former, you can consider any calm A time in his cot to count as 'half A time' eg if he's lying there calm(ish) but awake for half an hour, consider it equivalent to roughly 15mins of normal activity. Just a rule of thumb which you may find useful.

After a short nap, he will likely need a reduction in A time otherwise he'll likely do another short nap but OT. How much to reduce the A time is tricky - log what happens each day if you can, and see what works. Up to you how much time you want to spend trying to resettle, but you don't have to wait until the next feed time to feed him, as you say, he'll be too tired by then to feed properly and may fall asleep feeding or just be OT by  the time you PD. So don't worry about shortening the interval between feeds. If you're trying to resettle, make sure you get him up with enough time to feed before he needs to sleep again. If you get him up straight away, you might find you can put him down again for another CN in say, 20-30mins and feed afterwards, although I personally haven't had experience with that approach. I guess I just want to say you can be flexible with feed times, perhaps think of feeding every 2.5-3.5h (for,example), rather than strictly every 3.25h. Equally if he ends up doing a long catch-up nap then you can let him nap longer, I'd usually cap at 2h at this stage, although I have let mine do 15mins more at times.

On play school days can you put him down a bit earlier for his second nap? I see your routine for non-playschool days has him asleep at 11.20 for an hour, but you put him down at 11.45 on playschool days? Having said that, has he been having a 2h nap on these days in the afternoon most recently? If so, that's brilliant!

I see he's been having more trouble at BT, I suspect this is OT from all the short napping and resulting long A times - reducing A times after a short nap should help with this and again, don't worry about set BT at this stage, he may end up going to bed earlier if he's been short napping and this is fine as he'll need to catch up with lost daytime sleep during the night.

Does playschool run throughout the summer or do you get a break? If so, how many weeks left before the break? Just wondering how temporary this situation is - if you break for the summer then maybe he'll be ready for a nice long morning nap at home by the time your older LO goes back, which is lovely once it happens

Sorry if this is rambling, had dinner in the middle! Let us know your thoughts and we'll walk through this with  you

[wilow]

My DS1 is on war path with me now as I constantly ask him to be quiet and obviously he doesn't listen so he tries his boundaries. Also how many time he can slap baby before I got mad .... so crazy dayzzz Try to be calm and work this through.

I just want to ask how many naps will take 16 week baby, he was week overdue so he is almost 18w. Is 3 naps enough for him?? Yesterday and today he took 2x 1.45hr and 1x30min nap. He refused to take another nap around 5.30-6 so he ended up with 3h A time before BT and went to sleep at 7.30pm. Is it possible he swap from 4 naps to 3 so quickly?
I do put him at 11. 30 for second nap when going to playschool but he is not tired enough or OT and falls asleep at 11.45-50.
I am flexible with feeding but he is not hungry after 2..5 or 3h any more and feeds only for 5 minutes. I try to extend his feeding so he feeds more and can STTN. I know as well that he has to get used to it to the cot.  I managed several times put him to sleep in car seat while walking and he stayed asleep for 1.30h but he still want sleep in the pram. I dont really like it to keep him in car seat I dont know if this is good for him but it is better then no sleep I suppose.

Sorry for my mistakes but English is not primary language.

[trimbler]

Hey brilliant naps the last couple of days Yes the switch from 4-3 naps does occur around this age, I'd personally keep offering the 4th nap as some days he may take it, depends on how BT and the night are going - if everything else is going fine and he seems happy on 3 naps then great, especially if he does super naps like today you may find he still needs the 4th if the naps didn't go so well.

I hear you on your struggles with DS1, I honestly don't think I'd have managed with a smaller age gap, you're doing brilliantly and it will get easier

Sorry I'm no expert in sleep safety but would have thought that some naps in the car seat would be fine, as long as it's not overnight. He's not premature and is 4mo so should be plenty strong enough not to get himself into a position where he can't breathe easily. Well done on getting him to sleep longer in there, that might be your temporary solution until he can have a good morning nap at home in his cot

So what did his routine look like the last couple of days with the good naps?

[wilow]

Hi. I observed whole week how my LO was sleeping and there is some pattern but also he sometimes refuses to sleep loner at naps. he sleeps at night from about 19.30 to 7.00 - 7.15 am with DF at 22.30 and NF between 4 and 5am.
Last week went like this:

Mon
WU E 7.10am
A 1.40
S 8.38 - 9.22 could not resettle
E 10.26am
A 2.20
S 11.38 - 13.13
E 13.25
A 1.40
S 14.56- 16.36
E 16.49
A 3.00 he did not want to take CN
E 19.15
S 19.31
DF 22.32
NF 5.21
S 6.00

Tuesday
WU E 7.20
A 1.20
S in car seat on the way to shop 8.44 - 10.29
E 10.41
A 1.40
S 12.20 -13.49 in car seat while shopping
E 14.02
A 1.50
S in the car 16.15 - 16.40 waked by older brother
E 16.50
A 1.50
S 18.33 - 19.00
E 19.18
Bt sleep at 20.00
DF 22.51
NF 4.46
S 5.20

Wedn Playschool day
WU E 7.20
A 2.00
S 9.20 - 10.56 not good nap waked few times
E 10.57
A 1.30
S in car seat 12.26 - 12.56 cannot resettle til 13.48 and sleep 14.35
E 14.35
A 1.05
S 15.40 - 16.56
E 17.21
A 2.20
E 18.51
BT sleep at 19.15
DF 22.45
NF 4.09 getting backwards from 5.21 to 4.00??? what is the reason
S 5.00

Thur Playschool day
WU E 7.20
A 1.45
S 8.44 - 10.02 in the car seat I had to drive with him for an hour :/
E 10.44
A 1.45
S 11.43 - 12.09 waked when driving and really crying for next 10 min and did not resettle till feed time
E 13.42
A 3.20!!!
S 15.32 - 16.41
E 17.24
BT and E 18.43
S 19.10 dropped dead
DF 22.45
NF 4.02 earlier again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
did not fell asleep til 5.15

Friday
WU 7.00 E 7.20
A 1.40
S in the cot 8.40 - 10.04
E 10.41
A 2.10
S 12.13 - 14.00 I had to wake him because I had appointment probably he would be sleeping longer he wasn't happy
E. 14.00
A 1.40
S. 15.40 - 16.30
E 17.10
A 3.00!!!!! refuses to take CN between 17.30 and 18.30
BT E 18.50 he was really tired !!!
S 19.30  we see what is going to happen in the night


I can see he doesn't want to take naps after 17.00 awakes around 16.30 and then stay awake till 19.00 what makes him tired and I think that's why he is hungry at night and wakes earlier for feed. I dont know what to do I dont want to put him in bed before 18.30 because probably he will awake before 7am and I dont want this.

Any advise please??

[trimbler]

Wow that's a lot to take in, will be great to have a proper look but really need to get to bed so will look more later!

But as for the NF, bear in mind that there's a growth spurt around 4mo so he may just be needing more or getting hungry earlier than before, just for a few days. Not saying this is definitely the case but it may be. How long does he feed at night? Does he fall asleep whilst feeding or stay awake until the time you recorded him as asleep again? Does he feed in just a few mins and then you spend the rest of the time resettling him, or does he linger over the feed? Does he wake at all in the early evening? If he does, and/or if he really struggles to get back to sleep after the NF, that could indicate OT/UT ie routine issues, but otherwise it looks like he does good nights so he may well be getting the sleep he needs overall.

On those days when he refused the 4th nap he'd probably already had sufficient sleep, he only took it on Tuesday when the 3rd nap was short - ok so it was short on Friday too but he'd already had two really good naps. I do think you're just in that phase when some days he needs it and some days he doesn't depending on what happened earlier, and that's fine

I can see how things get messed up on playschool days, tbh you're probably doing the best you can for,the time being. If you feel,you need to drive for an hour from time to time then that's ok, he's still sleeping in his cot for other naps so won't forget how to. The alternative, as you know, is to wait until you're home, knowing that at this stage he'll be too OT to take a good nap, but in a few weeks that will change and he'll be able to go the distance and still take a good nap - and you'll be so relieved when that happens Did you say whether playschool continues over the summer or do you get a break? Can't say what happened on the preschool collection on Thursday, but a nap of that length can often indicate discomfort of some sort, I wonder if something was bothering him? I do think that you're doing really well with a situation that isn't ideal and it's probably not what you want to hear but it will get easier as he gets a little older. In the meantime, do you feel he's getting enough rest overall? Even if he's tired by the end of the day, does he wake up tired in the morning or refreshed? I'll say it again, I think you're doing really well

[wilow]

Yes thank you take a time

During the night he is feeding for about 15 min as usually during the day he is taking fool feed sometimes he is falling asleep but usually not. Last night he stirred about 3.45am I gave him soother and he went back to sleep. But he waked up at 6.00!! I fed him and I though he might take another 40 min nap but he did not stayed awake till 7.10am after that I took him out because he started to cry. So I finished with early WU today. I think I would prefer to feed him at 4 haha at least he is sleeping til 7am. He is usually awake around an hour during NF sometimes I need to come back to him few times but usually he can resettle himself. When I count down his sleeping time he sleeps around 14-15 hrs a day is this enough??  During the day he sleeps 4 maybe 4.5 hours around rest then in the night.

[wilow]

Oh yes ! Playschool is closed for summer but we are going for 3 weeks holiday in July so I think his routine will go messy again. Specially that we will be sleeping with him in the room now he sleeps in his room plus apartment is small so he would be able to hear everything so I am worrying that he might not sleep well.
On Thursday he could be too hot as was really hot weather but I could not do anything with that.

[trimbler]

I really think it sounds like he's getting the right amount of sleep overall, 14-15h is usually just right, actually pretty much up until 18mo when it tends to start to drop. Some will do more like 13h, others more like 16h. As they get older they consolidate their naps and transferring some of that daytime sleep to the night.

I'm with you on the NF, especially with the 4mo growth spurt, he's still young and many if not most LOs would still have two NFs (including Df) at this age. I agree it's preferable to have a later WU than at 6!

The reason I asked about playschool over the summer was that maybe you'll have a few weeks to settle and by the time DS1 goes back in September, DS2 may be able to stretch his first A time so that he's not OT by the time you're back from the morning drop-off... You could perhaps also try gently making his WU later by getting him up 10mins later in the morning (he could probably cope with being awake for a few mins in his cot at this age) and then shifting the rest of his routine by 10mins. Unless of course DS1 makes that impossible... Have you come across gro clocks? They're great for toddlers, although I'm not sure if he'd be a little too young for that yet? Anyway just a thought!

Hope you have a lovely time on holiday, I know it's stressful with LOs, will you all be in the same room? Do you use white noise? We've found that really helpful with DD as she's still in our room, I'm sure it helped last weekend when all four of us were in the same hotel room.

[wilow]

I already push his WU time till 7.15-7.20am my DS1 gets up around 7am. And we are on the way to 4hr routine now, we are on 3.75hr he can manage 1.50h A time in the morning but after his morning nap 1.75 - 2hr he looks tired quite fast after 1.20 but I try to hold him to 1.40h so then he has 1.5hr nap and CN 35-45 min around 4.30pm but he still have 2.20hr A time before BT and I dont want to put him to bed before 7pm.
Now our day looks like this

WU E 7.20am
A 1.50
S 9.10 - 11.00
E 11.00
A 1.40
S 12.40 -14.10
E 14.30
A 2.20 long A time
S 16.30 - 17.15
E 17.50
A 2.15 long A time
E 19.00
BT asleep 19.30

So we have 2 x 2.20 A time in the end of the day I try push his A time after first nap  but he is ready to sleep very quickly specially when we go for walk. And by the end of the day he is tired but he will not take longer second nap, if could sleep 12.50-14.50 we can do CN 17.20-18.00 then A time before BT will be 1.30. I try Wake to sleep but does not work and when he will awake he is not crying just laying in the bed.

We will stay with DS2 in the room DS1 will be with my mom. I do use white noise sometimes but it is quit noisy anyway I might use it during holidays.

[trimbler]

That's great you've got two lovely naps there When you drop the 4th he doesn't have to go straight to 2 full naps plus a catnap, he could take a longer 3rd nap if you feel he needs it. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets quite OT with those long A times at the end of the day which could catch up with him leading to early NWs etc, how do you think he's handling it at the moment? How are the nights? I suspect the 45min 3rd nap is OT, maybe putting him down earlier for that could result in a longer 3rd nap and then he'd be more able to handle the last A time before bed. But I don't want to make you change anything if it's working well You'll want to push that 2nd A further eventually, keep trying, I know it's hard when they're showing sleepy signs but part of that could be his body clock telling him it's time to sleep, but if you 're able to stretch him without him getting too wound up then as you say, he might start doing a longer 2nd nap.

Well done on pushing that morning later, I really think you'll soon be out of this awkward phase, it's lovely when baby goes down for a morning nap with toddler out at playschool/preschool

That's slightly easier if DS1 will be with your mom, great that she can help out, that should make a huge difference and make it feel more like a holiday I'd certainly try the white noise, we didn't use it when DS was in our room and I slept terribly, whether or not he did! But DD is still in with us as we're not brave enough to move her into DS's room yet, and it's great having the noise on, we worry less about waking her up turning over in bed and probably get less disturbed by her little noises too, whilst definitely hearing the louder ones

[wilow]

I do want him to take 3rd nap longer but he wont sleep. Like today and yesterday he only slept for 30 min from 16.50 to 17.20. Today he was crying a lot after woke up but I think he is teething a bit. The night are good he sleeps from around 19.20-19.30 till 4.30am with DF around 22.30 - 22.45. He is awake around 4ish and then after feed hi is falling asleep around 5.00-5.30 and sleeps till 7.10- 7.20am.
It is working well except he is really tired by the end of the day and BT routine is very short I want to read him some books but we cannot do this because he is crying at this stage for sleep,rubbing his eyes to the bits.
Yes I cannot sleep with babies in my room thats why with DS2 we decided to move him earlier when he was 3 months. My partner does not have problem snoring and sleeping no prob I slept poorly with DS 1 till he was 6 months when he eventually start to sleep in his room.
I dont know when we are going to move them together probably  we have to wait till DS1 will start to sleep peacefully at night.

[trimbler]

I was exactly the same with DS in my room, but really found the white noise has helped a lot with DD, I hope it helps you on holiday.

Have you tried for the CN earlier? Might help prevent that OT at BT and even maybe get a longer 3rd nap... Sorry have to go!

[wilow]

So last night was not great he was OT and finished with NW at 10.10pm and 2.30am after feed at 3am he did not get back sleep till 5am!! and WU at 6.20am long day 1st nap not very good OT really bad second nap 2.20hr but CN only 45min I did try earlier but he did not fall asleep till 4.50pm he was fighting with sleep.....fell asleep 3hr since last nap ....I dont know what is going to happen at night.
With CN I try everything but he just does not want sleep longer...45min is the most.

[trimbler]

Oh (((hugs))) you must be exhausted! Let's hope that was a one off... Yes probably OT but as I said previously 4mo is a tricky time developmentally, there could be all sorts of things going on, even teething's not impossible, but don't jump to that conclusion. Do you think you could try a shorter A before the 3rd nap? Or is there a way you could APOP it, in a sling/car/pram? Sorry maybe you said before that that was a no go, I can't remember now? He might just surprise you with a good night, even if he does a short nap and needs an earlier bedtime - not promising anything but don't be afraid of EBT, even if it doesn't work now that could change...

[wilow]

Hi. Last night wasnt great either. He woke up at 10pm and 3am. I had to feed him earlier both times as he wasnt able to go back to sleep. He was tired I'd say. Last day was long for him 14hr and only 3.5hr good naps, because 1st nap was rubbish. Any way today he WU 7am but got tired pretty quick around 8.30am He fell asleep in car seat at 8.50am and sleep till 9.20am. Wake up crying and now I try to put him back to sleep tough one....
I think he is teething my DS1 had first teeth at 5months DS2 is 4moths now so this might be it beside he is eating his hand to the bits and I can see teeth buds in the gums. So it is All-in-One teeth, OT, and growth spurt....not easy time for my LO and for me fingers cross it will pass soon.
Thank you for all your support!!

[trimbler]

Oh (((hugs))) that is a lot to cope with, at least if it's teething it will pass eventually... Are you still offering a 4th nap if things go haywire earlier in the day, or is that gone for good?

[wilow]

I try to offer another nap  but he wont take it, just wait for BT and then go sleep.
He fell asleep now after 1hr fighting and I will have to wake him in 40 min :/ for feed he is not going to be happy...I dont know how we manage second nap as at 12.15pm we have to go pick up DS2 and we wont be back till 12.45pm. Im afraid he will sleep in the car and then again fight to go back to sleep so it will be rubbish day....maybe not

[trimbler]

Oh it's hard doing all this juggling isn't it! Roll,on the summer holidays, how many weeks?

[wilow]

We go next Saturday !! It is going to be long day the flight is in the evening I know boys will be tired and we also.

Anyway last few day were hard!! WU time 6.15am !!! and late BT with short naps in between.... But another problem we have NW and he cannot settle down by himself. He did not have problems before I heard him many times but he was going back to sleep without my help, and now I had to shush him down for 20 to 30 min. He was awake last night at 1.30 am and 4am. I did cluster feed 7 and 9pm and DF 11pm because I think he is going through growth spurt. I try to feed him at 4am and he wont take feed he was just sucking like soother so I put him down to sleep and he waked up at 6.15am but was not hungry as well. He did not come back to sleep and I fed him at 7.20am then he went to sleep (fell asleep by himself) at 9am slept till 11.10m. Second nap was night mare took him ages to settle down before wasn't an issue, he did have problems with 40min naps but usually felling asleep independently.  Any way second nap was 40 min, I could not resettle him. CN was only 30 min at 6pm. Took him ages to fell asleep again.
BT really late after fighting for an hour he fell asleep at 8pm. I do try PU/PD I know that this method can take long time to work took as 40 minutes for second nap and 1 hour for CN!! I dont know if this is going to work...

[trimbler]

So sorry I can't really reply now, our internet connection has gone down so on DH's phone, hoping engineer on Tuesday will be able to sort it... But I may not be able to get on until after that, so sorry!

[wilow]

It is ok. Getting ready for holidays DS2 now is not too bad with naps but he looks tired after 1.5 A time ?? It is a bit short for his age I think. I try keep him 2hr but last 30min he is cranky and crying. He still does not sleep well in buggy, he probably never will . I will have connection with internet on holidays so whenever you will have time we can talk. Thank you.

[trimbler]

Sorry about that, back online now Glad to hear naps have been a bit better, how are they when you keep him up 2h? When the A time ,stretches it's quite common for LOs to take a while to get used to it, you'll know it's working if he takes decent naps after that A time, if not then you could pull back a bit. Go by what seems to work best for him, using average A times only as a guide not a rule. But above all hope you can enjoy your holiday, have a lovely time

[wilow]

Some days he sleeps well, some days he sleeps 45 min and then he cannot resettle to go back to sleep. Now sleeping is all over the place we are in new place and he was really tired after the journey. Hope he will be back on track soon because last two night were sleeplness.  He was awake every 2 hours and I had big deal to put him to sleep. I try also explain my partner that I dont have to feed him every 2 hr at night and we had a argument about it, because he was pushing me to feed him :/ I try to tell him that for last week he slept through the night from 11 pm to 6am.
Probably I need to feed him more often because its really hot so maybe I have to come back to 3,5 hr feed? What do you think.

[trimbler]

Sorry for slow reply, my internet connection is letting me down! With the heat, I'd say offer if he seems to want a feed/drink, he will be more thirsty and may only need a very short feed to quench that thirst. Hopefully if he's fed well during the day he won't be hungry enough to take a long, 'filling' feed at night. I know it's scary thinking he'll go back to nfs again but I'd offer if you think it's thirst and you can always sort it out when you're home/when it's cooler if you need to. I'm giving DD water when she wakes unhappy in the night as she's older, she's certainly thirsty for it, but yours is still young so your milk will be best. Just make sure you're drinking plenty yourself Also you might like to try offering a little top up feed/drink before naps in the heat, rather than changing your whole EASY. Some mums do this anyway as their LOs can never stretch to 4h between feeds during the day. Keep an eye on nappies etc and signs of dehydration, I'm sure you are already. Oh and also bear in mind there's that 4mo GS. Sorry it's all happening at once and on your holiday too, 4mo can be so tricky but hope you can manage to relax about it a bit on holiday and enjoy

[wilow]

He can manage 3,5hours now in that heat, before 4hr were not a problem. I know about GS and also he is teething badly so not happy days always something. He is 35min 45min napping now and has difficulty to resettle, sometimes after half an hour he fells asleep for another 45min, night are not too bad but he has only like 2,5 - 3 hr sleep during the day...and 10hr during the night. His day napping are really light and he is sleeping with one eye open ready to wake up with any noise I try to use white noise but I dont know it its working. Last night he was awake at 2am and chating for an hour :/ He starts to be dependet on soother also and he cannot put it in yet by himself. I try not use it except sleeping but when he does not have soother he has difficulties to go back to sleep.

[trimbler]

Hugs you must be tired! Feel free to post a day or two's EASY routine if and when you like, but as you say there's lots going on at the moment, hopefully things will settle down in a few days...

[wilow]

Hi Did not have much time to reply.
DS2 routine is all over the place to be honest. He sleeps 45 min every 1,5h or 2h. he will take only 3 naps sometimes really tired he will take 4th at 6.30pm but I need to wake him in 20 min to safe BT. Because of that he is awake early also - now WU 6.00am, before 7.20am :/ He started to feed every 3.0 - 3.5hr before he manage 4hr, so I dont know what is happening....
His day is like this now
WU between 6 and 6.40am
feed 7.00am I try to keep feeding time at 7.00am but it is dificult becasue my DH is pushing me to feed when he is awake....
sleep 9 - 9.35 - 9.45
feed 10.00am
sleep 12.00 - 12.45pm
feed 1.00pm
sleep 3.00pm -3.45pm
feed 4.00pm
sleep sometimes 6.00 - 6.20pm
feed 7.00pm
sleep 7.40pm
df 10.40pm
nf 4am

He is crying and I cannot get him back to sleep also my DH does not help he thinks is ok 45 min naps...he dont understand that he needs more sleep....
I think I might wait til I come back home becasue I dont think it will work any way to keep routine. Probably it will take some time to back on track.
I just dont know what to do now really.

[trimbler]

(((Hugs))) I feel your frustration and really hope you're able to enjoy your holiday nonetheless? Can you do some APOP to  help get you through? I agree it's probably best to try and go with the flow for now and look at things again once you're home, you should then also be out of 4mo GS territory at least but of course there's so much else going on at that age, IMO just getting through each day is an achievement in itself

[wilow]

I do try but it is hard as I get little sleep. Good that at least my older one sleeps pretty good. Can you tell me what APOP and IMO means? I don't know all shortcuts 😊

[trimbler]

Oh sorry, APOP = accidental parenting on purpose - ie doing whatever you have to do to help them sleep (eg sling, swing, car, pram, rocking, co-sleeping etc), in the knowledge that you may be creating a prop which may need weaning later, at this age I suspect it wouldn't be too big an issue though. IMO = in my opinion (((hugs))) sleep deprivation is not fun