Author Topic: 9 mo - UT or OT???  (Read 1514 times)

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Offline sparklewings1984

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9 mo - UT or OT???
« on: June 20, 2015, 11:42:31 am »
Hi all,

A new topic from me! After a total struggle a few months back to get my LO napping in the first place, I now seem to have moved to the next bump! Bit of background:

LO us almost 9 months but only 8 months corrected - so I tend to find he has a low A time for his actual age.
Refluxer (under control with omeprazole). Cows milk and other allergies currently trying to figure out. Main problem now is he has recurring terrible eczema on his face. Most of his other symptoms (intestinal) are under control since we cut milk and soya out.
Previously ebf until 6.5 months, has been fully ff since 7.5 months (Neocate because of his milk allergy).

2 weeks ago, we went on holiday for 1 week, and since then things have been all over the place. Literally the week before we went away we had started to settle into a decent routine that looked like this on a good day:

WU 7am
E 7.15am 8oz milk 8.45am solids (fruit puree and tiny bit of baby porridge)
A
S 9.45am- 10.55am (1hr 10 min)
E 11.15am 8oz milk 1.15pm solids (meat/fish and veg with a yoghurt)
A
S 2.40pm-3.20pm (40mins)
E 3.30pm 8oz milk 5pm solids (veg and fruit purees and finger foods)
A
E 6pm 8oz milk
A BT routine
BT 7pm

Sometimes he would do two naps of 1hr 10- 1 hr 40. Sometimes only short naps and still refusing 3 naps. We only properly moved to 2 naps about 4 weeks ago. Night wakings had just about stopped happening completely, we were still getting some EWs at 5am but I would put the white noise on outside his bedroom door without going into his room, and he would settle back to sleep until 6.30-7am.

On holiday, he had some good nap days, some bad days, but generally he coped very well. He is a VERY touchy baby. His room has to be pitch black for naps, and so I think part of the EWs is to do with the tiniest bits of light creeping through the 2 blackout blinds we have up (and cardboard stuck around the door frame to block out that light!). When we were on holiday, with the later sunrise he was actually sleeping through from 7pm-8am most nights.

Teething - first tooth popped up just before we went on holiday. Second tooth has cut through this week (Thursday). He has been chronically teething for about 3 months, and not coped with it very well at all.

This past week back at home, we have had terrible nap days. I'm only getting 2 x 40 min naps usually. I'm wondering if he is OT again from holiday, and needs a few days with shorter A times to catch up some OT. I'm really confused as to whether he is OT or UT! ??? It used to seem like anything 40mins - 1hr 10 was UT for him, and anything under 40 mins was OT (the shorter the nap, the more OT he was - we have had some 10 & 20 min naps before!).

The last few days, our first A time and nap has been as follows:

Monday
WU 6.50am (had a 1hr 10 min NW at 1.20am)
A 2hr 40
S 9.30am 45 mins - grumpy and tired before, wouldn't eat much breakfast, cried to sleep, woke up crying. I think this was the day his second tooth started cutting through.

Tuesday
WU 7.15am (no NWs)
A 3hr 15
S 10.30am 1hr 15 - did PUPD 1 time and then he settled. Woke with a cry but happy once I went into him.

Wednesday
WU 5.50am (no NWs)
A 2hr 30
S 8.20am 1hr 20 - self settled

Thursday
WU 7.40am (NW of 1hr 10 mins at midnight)
A 3 hr
S 10.40am 50 mins - self settled. Woke happy and chatting to himself in cot (I think UT)

Friday
WU 6.55am (no NWs)
A 2hr 40
S 9.35am 35 mins - self settled but woke crying.

Saturday
WU 5am (no NWs)
A 2hr 45
S 7.45am 1hr 10 - PUPD for 5 mins. I then had to wake him up at 8.55am as we were going out for the morning.

Final bit of info - he used to self settle for all of his first nap of the morning, but recently has been crying a lot more. I think it might be the start of SA. When I do PUPD with him, he is pushing against me even whilst still crying, so he wants to be laid back down, but then continues to cry. As he is so touchy, if I am in his view then he won't settle, he starts to get overstimulated. If I crouch down out of sight though, I feel like he feels abandoned.

Edit: Forgot to say, I *think* fairly recently I figured out that his ideal daytime totals are: 2.5 hours daytime sleep and 11.5-12 hours at night. So two naps of 1hr 15 mins. BT of 7pm with WU of 6.30-7am.

QUESTIONS(!!!!)
1. Any thoughts on what his first A time should be now? I think maybe I need to aim for 3hr 15 as he has napped the best on this time last week, and seemed to have some UT naps when on a shorter A time. Do you think the Wednesday longer nap with a shorter A time was more to do with him having an EW, therefore he was still a bit tired from the nighttime?
2. What do you think I should do about settling him now? I literally used to be able to do our wind down, put him into the cot and walk out for his first nap. Now it seems like nothing I do is helping him to sleep! We only had 1 day of this kind of self settling this week and that was on Thursday when he was UT. Wind down consists of: quick nappy change, put white noise on, close blinds whilst singing Twinkle Twinkle and holding him, then laying him straight into the cot with his teddy and blanket over him. He used to put his head on my shoulder when I started singing and then lie down quietly and calmly. Now he seems to be crying whilst I am singing to him and doesn't want to go in the cot - is this another UT hint???
3. BT is now a bit of a nightmare. I think it might be because of getting in an UT/OT loop. With him short napping but only having 2 naps, we don't have time to squeeze in a third nap so I've been doing early BT quite a few days, but don't want to put him to bed earlier than 6.30pm because it is too difficult to fit in his bottles if he goes to bed earlier than that. I'm currently trying to get him down to 3 bottles of 9oz though as he hasn't been drinking all of his 11am/3pm bottles.

Thanks so much in advance for anyone's help, this board has been great!  ;D
« Last Edit: June 20, 2015, 11:47:38 am by sparklewings1984 »

Offline newkidontheblock

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Re: 9 mo - UT or OT???
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2015, 02:50:42 am »
Holidays do tend to throw things off track. But with a bit of consistency, things should fall into place soon. Teething definitely won't be helping matters. I have heard that keep the mattress on an incline/ elevating the head also helps with teething pain. And of course giving meds before the nap would help too. With my DD, 40 minute naps would indicate that a push in A times would be necessary. Even with his corrected age, 2.45 minutes is quite low for his age, in my opinion. We were doing 3.20 A at 6 months. I do think that pushing to a more appropriate A would help with settling and longer naps, and ultimately the OT. How does that sound?






Offline sparklewings1984

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Re: 9 mo - UT or OT???
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2015, 15:13:36 pm »
Yes I do think he needs longer A times. Is it normal that he might seem tired very early on in the A time though? For instance last night he slept 6.30pm (early BT as short naps in the day) and slept until 8am this morning. Then I was aiming for 3 hour A time, tried to get him to sleep at 11am and after 30 mins of trying I took him out of the room as was due his next bottle. He eventually fell asleep in the pram at 12.30pm. However, he was yawning, rubbing eyes and fussing A LOT since 10am! I know tired signs are less reliable at this age but he seemed so grumpy I thought he must be tired! Do I just have to try to entertain a grumpy baby for an extra hour of A time???

Also forgot to mention he is desperately trying to crawl so think it could be developmental?

Do you think I should lengthen the first A time now? 15 min increments every 3 days? I think I'll jump it up to 3hr 15 tomorrow given how badly today went at 3 hours! He usually will do a slightly longer second A then.

So I would be hoping for something like this if I can get him onto 3 bottles?
WU 7am
E 7.30am milk 9am solids
A
S 10.15-11.30am
E 12pm solids
A
E 2pm milk
S 3-4.15pm
E 4.30pm solids
A
E 6.30pm milk
BT routine
S 7.30pm

Offline newkidontheblock

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Re: 9 mo - UT or OT???
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2015, 15:31:28 pm »
Is it normal that he might seem tired very early on in the A time though?
Absolutely. After a certain point, sleepy signs can be very unreliable. He might seem tired but not really ready to sleep or at least do a proper sized nap. With my DD, I have it much better to go by the clock. The example you gave also seems to me to be UT turned into OT. If you find him getting grumpy, go for a walk if possible. The fresh air works wonders. Maybe he is just bored and needs a change of scene yk?

Also forgot to mention he is desperately trying to crawl so think it could be developmental?
It definitely could contribute, especially if he is keen to practice. DD used to keep crawling around her crib in her sleep. hehe

Do you think I should lengthen the first A time now? 15 min increments every 3 days? I think I'll jump it up to 3hr 15 tomorrow given how badly today went at 3 hours! He usually will do a slightly longer second A then.
Yep. You've planned it well:)

WRT the routine you posted, unless for some reason you want a 12.5 hour day, you could stick to 7pm as BT. Cap the pm nap if needed to keep BT the same. If nap 2 ends early, EBT is always an option. If he needs more milk, it isn't necessary to push to 3 bottles - you would simply have to get a bit creative with feeds. For instance, I would feed on WU in the morning and after nap 1, before nap 2 & at BT but this was at 7/8 months. DD's a teeny little thing and she dropped to 3 feeds soon after.







Offline sparklewings1984

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Re: 9 mo - UT or OT???
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2015, 21:41:52 pm »
Yes actually I was planning to go for a short walk with him in the mornings now before his breakfast. We were doing this on holiday and I was always scared he would fall asleep in the pushchair even though it was only 2 hours into his A time, but he never did. Then I'll do breakfast once we get home, bit of play time and then wind down from 3 hours or a bit longer depending how he is going.

I'll have to see how it goes with the milk depending on his naps I think. Some days he really seems to only need 3 bottles, other days he drains all 4 of them, although this is becoming rare now.

Thanks for the tips, I'll report back in a few days once I've got an update x

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Re: 9 mo - UT or OT???
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2015, 02:31:32 am »
Good luck ;)






Offline sparklewings1984

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Re: 9 mo - UT or OT???
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2015, 09:38:38 am »
Just a quick update...

Tuesday went really well
WU 6.40am
S 10.15am- 12.10pm
S 3.45pm - 5pm
BT 7.50pm
I had to do PUPD with him for 5 mins first nap and 10 mins second nap but nothing too difficult. I had to wake him from second nap and he self settled at BT.

Wednesday we went visiting family so his naps were both in the car seat bit he settled well, sometimes he can cry for 10 mins or more before falling asleep in the car.
WU 6.40am
S 9.50-10.40am and I had to wake him when we arrived
S 1.20-2pm
S 4.30-5pm APOP pram walk
BT 7.50pm self settled

Thursday I went into work for the day so everything went wrong as the iin-laws were babysitting! He was very OT at bedtime.
WU 5.35am (I think OT from the day before)
S 9-10am
S 11.15-11.30am snooze in pram
S 2.30-3.15pm APOP pram
BT 7pm

I'm back into a proper routine today and got no big plans for the next week so can get it sorted now. Today is going well
WU 6.20am
S 9.45am- .... still asleep after 50 mins and self settled

It does seem like the longer A has worked well so far, yay! He is going off his milk and not really increased his solids intake, so I keep worrying he might be hungry but I think I just need to muddle on and he will eat when he needs to right? He is still drinking about 24-27oz so plenty, but he used to drink about 30-32oz a day so it seems like quite a drop to me. He is cutting a bit out of all 4 bottles, and only taking 4-5 oz at his 11am bottle. If he continues that for a week do you think it's worth trying 3 bottles again, with lunch before his second bottle?

Offline newkidontheblock

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Re: 9 mo - UT or OT???
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2015, 05:24:47 am »
Happy to read your update:) I actually never counted solids intake or worried about it. Milk is the main source of nutrition. If you feel that cutting down to 3 would increase overall intake, then try it out. FX for you






Offline sparklewings1984

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Re: 9 mo - UT or OT???
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2015, 14:50:45 pm »
Hey, sorry I went quiet! I guess you know by now that is usually a good sign!? We had a few weeks of 2 solids naps per day, and now I've got the next bump! I think I need to start capping the morning nap as his A times are getting too long, what do other people think?

WU 7.10am
E 7.30am 8oz milk 9am hardly any breakfast
A
S 10.30am- 12pm self settled. I woke him from the nap
E 12.15pm 6oz milk 1.15pm big lunch
A
S refused nap at 3.30pm
E 3.15pm
A
S 4.45pm-5pm APOP pram - I took him out at 4.20pm and still took him this long to fall asleep
E 5pm big dinner 6.30pm 8oz milk
A BT routine
BT 7.30pm after 15 mins chatting and rolling around his cot

Slept until 6.50am today and had exactly the same, 90 min nap this morn that I woke him from at 11.45am, then refused his nap at 3.10pm

Do you agree he is UT at his afternoon nap? He is really crying and squirming to twist towards the door like he really doesn't want to be there. Tried for 30 mins both days and then give up.

I need to cap the nap otherwise if I stretch the A time there isn't enough time left in the day for his nap and final A to bed right?

Offline sparklewings1984

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Re: 9 mo - UT or OT???
« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2015, 14:56:45 pm »
Oh and I only just stretched his first A to 3hr 20 when we started getting 5am wake ups and 50 min naps again last week so that seems to have stopped the EWs again so looks like he was ready for more A time.

He has also just started commando crawling yesterday and just donating off a WW.

9.5 months old now....I'm thinking it is the start of the 2:1? On days when I didn't cap his first nap he had slept for 2 hr 15 sometimes, but then I still have ti squeeze in a catnap as he can't make it to bedtime  when he wakes at 12.30pm...

Would I be better off starting a new post in the naps board?  Can't believe we only just got through the 3:2 transition and now we've rapidly hit the 2:1!!!
« Last Edit: July 10, 2015, 15:11:25 pm by sparklewings1984 »

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Re: 9 mo - UT or OT???
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2015, 08:36:46 am »
an't believe we only just got through the 3:2 transition and now we've rapidly hit the 2:1!!!
Haha:) Yes, everything just speeds up!

IIWM, I would let him sleep as long as he wanted for the am nap and then keep the second nap as a CN which you could APOP in a sling/pram etc. You can then pull BT forward to compensate for the less sleep. This was our routine from 7 months on. The sling is really a godsend at time like these:)






Offline sparklewings1984

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Re: 9 mo - UT or OT???
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2015, 19:55:01 pm »
Yes I think I'm going to let him sleep longer in the AM because I don't want him to get used to short napping once he is ready to move to 1 nap. We did have a 1 nap day at the weekend as he was just refusing to nap and we did EBT at 6pm and apart from some OT early evening waking he slept fine. I know the 2:1 can take months :(

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Re: 9 mo - UT or OT???
« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2015, 15:37:42 pm »
Yep, it is a long transition. We're still riding out the EWs we picked up somewhere along the way. We started transitioning somewhere around 7 months but were only firmly on 1 nap by the time she was 1 yo.