Playing & laughing during Gradual withdrawal meth and WI-WO

[kebauter]

Hi there!
What a great place this is
Our almost 18 months old has never really been sleep trained. We started now and tried both methods (gradual withdrawal and wi/wo) but although I know he's very tired, he's just playing, talking and laughing. He loves to stand up and dives into bed laughing when I walk in. When I stay in the room, he sees it as an invitation to play. I'm trying to be clear, but obviously he thinks his thing about it... Only when I go out of his sight he starts crying. What do you do when your kid doesn't take you/it seriously?!
And what bothers me the most: he keeps his brother (4y) awake, they sleep in the same room. Any ideas how to solve this?
Thanks!!

[Haribo2012]

Hi there, can you post us your EAS so we can look at what your day looks like x

[kebauter]

Wel, we kind of started to take over the schedule he follows at daycare:
He wakes up at 6:00 (sometimes earlier, mostly refuses to sleep more even if he's tired unless it's on me)
Lunch around 11:00
Nap at 12:00 till 13:30/14:00 (sometimes nap time is hell too...)
Fruit around 15:30
Dinner at 18:00
Sleep ritual (bath, book, milk) around 19:00, down by 19:30.
I breastfeed so he's used to drink and get drowsy just before I put him down. Since 2 days I make sure he has milk before the book, to make sure he learns to fall asleep without me. But for now that's not working.
He has a pacifier and little blanket that he refuses when I put him down again and again and again...
So after I put him down and leave he gets up, throws his beloved pacifier and blanket on the floor and screams. I come in, take his things, give it to him (if he accepts, if not I put it next to him) put him down, and leave again. Over and over again until I give up (his brother needs to sleep too) make him drink again until he get drowsy, give his pacifier and blanket, put him down and only then he's off. He really needs me ánd keeps his brother awake.
The beginning of the proces is he enjoys (jumping up, diving back in bed,...) but when he finally sees I'm serious, he starts screaming. But if I pick him up to sooth him, he starts playing with me in stead of relaxing.
No idea where this will end...
Ohw yeah, every night he wakes up often with upset intestines (spastic colone) and the only thing that calmes him down is the breast... (lots of exams already, seems that he has to grow out of this). This kid is tired and so are we!
THANKS!!

[Haribo2012]

There is a massive sleep regression at 18 months so it may well just be that, I'd probably try putting him to bed a bit earlier if he wakes before 6, so if he's having a good 1.5 hour plus nap keep his day at 13 hours so aim to be asleep by 12 hours but if his naps are short go earlier. He may be OT on a long day and getting a bit hyper so can't chill at BT.

You sound like your doing great with the walk in walk out, throwing the lovey is just to get your attention I would think. I'd prob just stick with stories, milk and say it's sleep time now and kisses etc then leave. When you return just pick up stuff thrown out and put but just say sleep time no real contact and leave. Just repeat repeat etc, if it is the sleep regression it will pass.

I've not heard of colon thing poor kid and you x

[kebauter]

Thanks! That gives me some courage...
How long does this mostly take? A few days, a week, a month,...?
Doeing it as we speak, in and out, in and out,... X11 by now in 15 min... ;-)

[kebauter]

And so basicly I do let him cry? Because that's what he's doing in this proces...

[Haribo2012]

I think if it's bit working after a few days or if it's not taking less time then something else is in the mix.

Crying is ok as long as your not leaving him, your letting him have reassurance by keeping going in. If he gets very upset you could give a cuddle but still just say sleep time sweetheart etc.

Stay strong  x

Ps have you read this Getting back on track using Walk In/Walk Out (WI/WO)

[Haribo2012]

And this sorry meant to add them earlier
Toddler Specific Sleep Training Advice
x

[kebauter]

I did read it, thanks!
He's sleeping now, but there was a lot of crying involved. I picked him up and tried PU/PD for a while. Big big screaming session everytime I put him down. Eventually I picked him up and put him down only after he fell asleep on my shoulder. No extra breast for the first time. Don't know what is worse though, the breast or the holding until he sleeps. Are we making progress or going backwards?!
Only 16,5 more years to go... ;-)

[Haribo2012]

It's progress if you managed to not give breast if that had become a prop. All ST is hard work, maybe you could try sitting next to the cot and stroking or rubbing his back using GW until he is calm then just sitting quietly a little bit away from him? I know he messed but you could sit and ignore as such if it's less tears? moving to walk in walk out in a while if it feels too harsh etc.

Have a read of this you might find support here too 18 month sleep regression support thread-part 3

Ha ha in 15 years you can get payback and wake him early instead 

[kebauter]

Haha! Or when he calls: "hey mum, can you look after our kids for two night, we are so tired." "Sorry, I can't, I urgently have to do nothing at all!" 

Sitting or standing with him (with or without a hand on him) is no option. For him that feels like an invite to play. Unless it's his dad, with him he doesn't fool around...
Let's see what the next days bring. After this I'll start working on the nights, there too only breast to calm him down.

Thanks for the support!

[Haribo2012]

Ha ha :-)

Good luck keep us posted x

[kebauter]

PROGRESS!!! :-)
This time he refused to drink from me (for the first time!) so I gave him a bottle, just like his brother. After that they did the ritual together. In bed he was throwing his things out as usual and jumping up and down and laughing like a fool. In and out, in and out,... Until I went out with his pacifier and little blanket. He started crying, after one minute I went in to give them back and put him down, and he just went for it! After 20 min he was sleeping. There is hope, alright!! :-)

[Haribo2012]

Well done that sounds like real progress, maybe he likes being like his big brother :-)

My DS will sometimes have a few tears but it more of a protest than being upset iykwim.