Short nights

[newkidontheblock]

Just wanted to know others' experiences regarding an issue we are having. DD is a year old and is on 1 nap with an A time of 5.30 with a nap consistently of 2 hours +. . A set nap time doesn't really work for her yet and so we are still going by A times.  However, since May, we have been dealing with short nights/EWs. My first thought was that it was OT accumulated during the 2-1 transition or the fact that it was getting bright so much earlier since it is summer. But she is absolutely well rested at this point and yet we are getting short nights. Previously, we would always get 12 hour nights -- sometimes 13 or 14 hour nights on EBT days. Right now though, our nights are 11 hours max - sometimes even 10.5 (and I'm sure it isn't OT)

I'm wondering if this is simply a normal phase that they go through. If so, since I am absolutely unwilling to start my day before 7am, should I be opting for a longer day(13 hours)/ pushing BT back to 8pm?

Just to give you an idea of our day
WU - 7
Nap - 12.30 - 2.30/3
BT - 7

I did read that a too long A to bed might be an issue and A to bed should be 4 - 4.5 hours max. What are your thoughts on this? This past week, I tried shifting our day later, ie : 8/8.30 BT which then gave me a later WU for a few days but then back to 7am (10.5 hour night)

Am I on the right track?

[creations]

our nights are 11 hours max - sometimes even 10.5

That's about all DS ever did. Only as very little baby did he do a longer night and again at transitions, 10.5-11hrs was really his standard night length. At 1yo he was doing a 2hr nap with that night and continued to do so for a long time (the nap moved later when needed), until 2yo.  Then we started going off track a bit moving towards the 1-0.
Our routine before the 1-0 was
WU 6.30
nap 2 - 4
BT 8.00

Initially I wasn't a fan of the BT move to 8pm (I was done by the end of the day and just wanted him in bed to get my Y time!) but once we settled into it, actually it was great. And when I had to bring BT earlier (1-0) it felt like the day was too short!
He did 12hr nights after nap drop right the way up to 4yr 4 months, so you may have that to look forward to

I did read that a too long A to bed might be an issue and A to bed should be 4 - 4.5 hours max.

I think it really depends on LO. Mine liked a short last A but some won't sleep after only 4hrs awake time.

[jessmum46]

What does her day actually look like Fleur with a short night?  The routine above has a 12h night so not quite sure how things are playing out for you guys right now?

I can't get more than about 11-11.5 out of B, we had a week or two of 12h now back to 11-11.5 even on rubbish nap days and although I've not tried super EBT, EBT doesn't seem to give longer nights.  We are in a similar place I think (without such great naps) of probably needing a later bedtime.

[athenasmom]

Same experience here as Creations. As you know the standard here is 10.5 - 11 hours too. The 8 pm BT works well here as I work full time though. I think it is normal that the nights are shortened when the LO settles into the 1 nap routine. It is nice that E is doing a nice long nap. A has recently shortened her nap to about 1:45 min to 2:00 hours from the usual 2+ hours  I think whether you do longer 1st A or longer 2nd A depends on the child. A cannot handle a too long 1st A time but can go on forever after the nap and not get OT given she had a good nap. But looking on Creation's routine her LO did a super long 1st A and a shorter 2nd one. So you might have to experiment with it a little and see what suits you guys the best. 

[newkidontheblock]

Thanks for both of your replies:)

Katherine, if you don't mind, I'll post a few days so that you can get a general idea
19th
6.30 - WU but RS
8.30 - I woke her ( we all overslept)
Nap: 2 - 4
BT - 8

20th
8.20 - WU
Nap: 1.50 - 4.20 (2.5 hours)
BT- 8.30

21st
7.20 - WU
Nap: 12.45 -3.30
Sleep - 8

22nd
6 am WU

..and we're back to normal EW today too. I know those days seem fine but even with pushing the day so late, she still went back to the EW time, you see? And before this week, we don't have a single day with a 7 am WU, even though BT was fixed at 7pm. She woke between 5.30 & 6 every single day. Ugh. I've stopped even trying/aiming for a fixed WU as we never make it to that time and I am moving things around in the hopes that something will click. We do stay in her room in dark till as close to normal WU as possible though. Sorry to hear that B is back to his short nights. I thought they had finally lengthened out. Naps are fine here and even if we get a short nap, I go for a 10 min CN and normal BT of 7pm. EBT is simply not an option anymore as she simply wakes up even earlier and completely refreshed! Lol

That's a long day your DS was doing, creations.

Initially I wasn't a fan of the BT move to 8pm (I was done by the end of the day and just wanted him in bed to get my Y time!)

Exactly! I did not like this past week at all. I had no time to myself at all. After I got her down, had dinner and pumped, it was already waaay late. And also what about days when she has trouble going to sleep & I need to settle her - everything would just be so late.

Mine liked a short last A but some won't sleep after only 4hrs awake time.

Mine liked a short A too. 3 was the absolute max she would do. Until we sleep trained and now anything goes. It's a bit disconcerting, TBH. It's like the wild wild west here and all bets are off.

So I thought about it a bit more. What if, she is getting too much day sleep atm but capping isn't an option otherwise it would be too long an A to bed. So basically, maybe all I have to do is wait till I can push A some more and then as the nap gets later, I could cap it and then hopefully nights would lengthen? Am I making any sense?

Posted with you, Suzanna. Thanks for popping in:) I have been spoilt with these long nights!

[creations]

So I thought about it a bit more. What if, she is getting too much day sleep atm but capping isn't an option otherwise it would be too long an A to bed. So basically, maybe all I have to do is wait till I can push A some more and then as the nap gets later, I could cap it and then hopefully nights would lengthen? Am I making any sense?

It makes sense in theory and many LOs will do a steady night with the first A gradually extended and the nap ending at the same time each day (so same A to bed but nap is getting shorter), but then other LOs just will not do this. Will not. Doesn't matter how much you tell them it works in theory, they have their own theory...
My DS's theory was 'I really need my 2hr nap and I will have to continue to have a full 2 hr nap even if the nights end up being under 10 hrs, even under 9hrs...I still need that 2 hr nap because I NEED it!"

That's a long day your DS was doing, creations.

Yep. And he looked low sleep needs, but yk at 4yo he looks like high sleep needs as he's done 12hr nights from 2.5 until over 4yo and I've only just reduced his night to 11hr 45 a few weeks back.
I found we all settled into the later BT routine in the end, it was really enjoyable having him up longer, at least it was way more enjoyable than calls backs at BT or waking up at 5am.  I know it is daunting but any routine change takes time to become comfortable doesn't it.

[Kellyjs]

Just thought I'd share my experience with you fleur is that's ok?

At 1yo DD was taking a mammoth 2.5hr nap and doing 12hr nights for around 3 weeks I think. Brilliant as it was a hot summer and I got plenty of lazing around time and BW time of course 

It must've been developmental as she soon reverted to 10.5hr night after that. I posted on here at the time wondering about OT. I cut the nap back to 2hrs and we had steady 11hr nights (pretty much, except for the 18mo SR and teething) until a few months ago.

We did:
Wu 6.30
Nap 12.30-2.30
BT 7 with asleep by 7.30 (always has done the 30mins getting to sleep at BT thing).

Hth x

Eta - oh and I've always woken DD at 6.30! I need my Y time in the evenings, so I've just always woken her. My thought was if she wanted the extra sleep she'd stop faffing around at BT and go to sleep then, still hasn't happened, mind you. Even on a NND now she'll play around for 20+ mins 

[trimbler]

Fleur this reminds me so much of when DS finally went to one nap at 18mo! Once he'd settled on it he did a 2.5h nap for a few weeks, then the EWs started... I thought OT but I just couldn't get any more sleep into him no matter what I tried, until I started capping that nap, I was amazed how quickly it went to 2h for a better night's sleep, but that seemed to be the solution. So you don't necessarily have to wait to push it out before starting to cap, just a thought!

[newkidontheblock]

Thanks for sharing your experiences, Creations, Kelly and Trimbler. Kelly, what a super cute pic! I guess I just have to roll with these nights then. What is confusing me is whether this is just how things are now or is there something I am not seeing, yk? It doesn't add up to me that she would all of a sudden shorten her nights so much. We've been getting a long nap since she was 7 mo, so that isn't it.

Trimbler, I'm not capping because on days with EWs, it would leave too long a gap till BT and then I'd have OT to deal with.

That being said, we had our worst night ever yesterday. Our day was
7 - WU ( asleep at 8.50 the night before to keep a 12.5 hour day, so super short night)
Nap: 12.30 - 3
BT - 7.30
She seemed asleep, then WU howling in 10 minutes and would not settle at all. I finally nursed (something I have been avoiding as we had a prop created) and she slept at 8.15
NW - 1 (DH sat by her crib trying to soothe her for 1.5 hours! She did not even want a bottle. Finally he picked her up and gave her a hug, and then she slept. So so so strange
EW - 6am (DH resettled)
Up for the day at 8 (overslept again after the awful night)

[trimbler]

(((Hugs))) Fleur, poor all of you! Could you try capping today, after the later start? You don't have to keep to a 12.5h day, do you? Or is it that Eris has never done more than 11.5h at night? Some LOs manage longer nights as they get older, others don't, so just ignore me if I'm completely on the wrong track

[jessmum46]

Hugs Fleur, fwiw that type of waking pattern/trouble settling would be discomfort-related here.  Hope there's nothing like that upsetting Eris xx

[newkidontheblock]

Could you try capping today, after the later start?

Thanks, trimbler and Katherine. Yes, I've capped the nap today at 3pm - just 1.40 minutes. Trimber, Eris always did long nights - 12 hours minimum. Katherine, I was literally crossing my fingers & toes for teeth. Everything is still normal. Blast!

[Kellyjs]

Molars can cause havoc before they make an appearance hun, it just tends to be on and off. Hope it is teeth, bad as that sounds  xx

[trimbler]

Haha Fleur and I are still waiting for the first incisor

[Kellyjs]

Whoops, sorry guys are you really?! Excellent. Studies have shown the later the better! Means they'll be later shedding their deciduous teeth (baby teeth) therefore later producing permanent teeth and having them later on in life (sugar content and lifestyle and tooth brushing skills taken into consideration)  . Still FX for teeth for you though xx