1-0 transition and nothing is working!

[Aishi]

I agree with creations. If nothing is working and you've tried the other suggestions I would drop the nap cold turkey.

You may be surprised and lo may tack on to night sleep. My ds never did until 1-0 so it's worth trying a nnd and as ebt as you can...wdyt?

[barbaraz78]

I would actually avoid ebt until the night length is not consistenly increased. It can take a while for the night to lengthen, and in the mean time you don't want to be stuck in ebt-ewu routine. Also, my ds was much older when dropped the nap, but we never had 12 h nights - only for 3 days after nap dropping. He was self regulating alternating 11 and 11.5 h nights, with some 10.5 h night, as he never had consistent long nights (also before nap dropping it was like this). So i agree with Creations, not to put your expectations to 12 h, but to aim more at 11-11.5 if nap drop. Then if you have 12 or more, great.

[AMJ]

Creations, I gave her the uncapped nap today and she slept to 2hrs wow. After she was crying really hard and was grumpy at everyone, only wants mommy. By the evening she got better. BT was at 9:40pm! Right now it's night time here. She woke up at 2:25 and then was tossing and turning but it seems thy she resettled at 2:50ish so not too bad. Let's see what the morning beings.

100% that long nap won't bring her WU later consistently. But I really wish I could move her day later. Maybe I'll stick with later BT for a while considering she wakes up later today. You suggested to offer a short nap and late BT, wouldn't it make her really really OT?

Gosh I'm really scared of dropping the nap! When we dropped the second nap she was sleeping 6pm to 4am most nights so it was pretty hard on me to get up at 4. When I tried bringing the nap back to try and move her BT later she would just refuse it completely. So if I do drop this last nap cold turkey she will never go back to it if need be. And it could go really good or really bad and she can get really OT have very short night, keep up NWUs and have a horrible mood/tantrums.

Creations and Aishi, yes it does seem that we tried all the suggestions but who knows maybe there is one magic thing that we didn't try

Barbaraz if I drop the nap, would you suggest to keep a set BT of 7pm? Or 8pm? Tbh I would even love for her to have 11/11.5hr night as long as she is happy and well rested!

Thanks to all of you very much!

[barbaraz78]

I think that if you drop the nap, and she copes well with it, you can decide the bt that suits you better, considering a 11.5h night (and accepting that there can be few days of short nights while adjusting). I would concentrate to move wu later now, shifting bt. Then, when wu is later, you can think to drop the nap completely.

[creations]

You suggested to offer a short nap and late BT, wouldn't it make her really really OT?

Because you said a long nap will not work for more than 1 or possibly 2 days.

There are limited options:
- long nap
- short nap
- no nap
that's it I'm afraid.

So if long nap won't work more than 1 or 2 days just do it 1 or 2 days then switch to short nap or no nap.
Will it make her OT, maybe but there *are no other options*. All babies get OT now and then, use it to your advantage to get a new routine in place (as Tracy did). Besides, it seems the fear of OT is likely the thing which is perpetuating the early BT early WU and the long UT NWs.  In all honesty I would avoid UT *way* more than OT.  At least with OT they get tired and at some point crash for a good sleep.  In fact when I needed to shift my DS's BT/WU (it was a daylight savings time change) I knew I needed to do it *rapidly*. Fiddling around with moving things by 5 or even 15 mins just meant shorter nights and less sleep for longer term. Moving by 30 mins then another 30 mins then another 30 mins in rapid succession was sure to bring the OT crash on much quicker, get onto the new routine much faster and overall *less* sleep is lost.

It sounds like you need to just take the plunge on this. I know it's scary.

[AMJ]

Yes, I'm afraid of OT actually as much as UT partially bacause it's so hard to read her. Kinda feels like I don't know what I'm doing, at all.

Ok ladies, having a plan makes me hopeful. I'll continue with a late BT to shift her WU and then will drop the nap. Fingers crossed.

Thanks again.

[barbaraz78]

Good luck!

[AMJ]

Thank you!

Sorry one more question. From your experience while moving the BT later is it better to give a late short nap therefore making the morning A long and evening A regular length or make the nap in the middle? She will be OT either way.

My plan for today:

WU 6:45 ( after 9:40 BT)
Nap 2:45(30m)
WU 3:15
BT 8:30

[barbaraz78]

It depends from your lo. Mine always preferred a long morning A and short pm A, but I know many ladies that found the opposite... It is just trial and errors, I am afraid :-/

[AMJ]

DD also prefers longer morning A but if it's the right A length of course ok thanks

[LovelyLilyandJack]

Just popping on to continue to offer support

The way I see it, the only things left to try are kind of radical (because whoever was supporting you on the previous thread will have already been through all the regular stuff). Big changes, grit your teeth and hang on to your hair kind of stuff.

This is kind of where we got to, wasn't it?  Holding your hand through the next steps 

[AMJ]

Oh LL&J yes it looks that way and you are my witness . Thanks for sticking around!

[creations]

What WU time are you hoping for? I'm asking because above you said you will continue late BT to wait for WU to move later but then in your plan BT is moving earlier. We are expecting a 10hr night, right? You said in first post a capped nap gives 10hrs, sometimes more, so we expect 10hrs and any more is a bonus, yes?
Giving BT at 8.30pm will give an expected 6.30am WU - is this acceptable?

[AMJ]

Sorry if I confused you. Yes 6:30/7am WU sounds good to me. Do you think I should do 9pm BT today instead of 8:30?i think my mind automatically goes into the overdrive and I panic and move her BT earlier.  I'll stick with the set nap and BT for week or longer. Once the WU becomes 6:30/7am consistently then i'll drop the nap and keep the BT the same or do I need to move it a bit earlier until her nights lengthen after the nap drop. Sorry I'm very slow lately

The only thing with set time is that usually it seems that it is working but then she gets more and more OT and her sleep gets shorter.

[creations]

I think I'd try to get to 9pm but it does depend on mood too, after all this is on a 30 min nap rather than a full nap, but yes, I think if you can get to 9pm with 7am WU then you would be better set to drop the nap and give earlier BT without it becoming terribly early and risking a terribly early wu.
I don't think it will take a week. it's a time shift rather than a routine change iyswim.  Like when the clocks change you do it over a few days and that's it done.

I mean, don't know what others think here, or what you think, but if you got a 7am WU tomorrow you could possibly go for a CT nap drop?