1-0 transition and nothing is working!

[LovelyLilyandJack]

I think you're closer to dropping the nap than you think, AMJ... And I agree that you are unlikely to get any decent length nights until you do. But you need to be up for what it might bring,  which is a few very hairy days of unpredictable / inexplicable sleep with the faith that things will settle in the end. I think your LO might surprise you though - after all, what else have you got to try?! Other than keeping BT late,  acknowledging that WU will stay early and carrying on with a capped nap of 30 minutes or so and a set (late) BT, until that starts giving very short nights too.  It'll prolong the days of a later BT though, doing it that way.... I guess it depends on what feel would work best?

[AMJ]

Creations, I can definitely get her to 9pm only not because she can easily last till then but just by pushing her and getting her OT.
ok if she magically wakes at 7am tomorrow, with or without NWU, I can try CT nap drop. Then what EBT would you set?  And do you suggest I stick with it no matter what? when can I give an EBT then? only when her night lengthen?

LL&J yep that sounds right. I think i'm ready lol.

thanks

[creations]

Keep in mind it is always your decision. If you are not comfortable to go with the suggestions from me or anyone else then you should not do them. It is always your call and there is support here and hand holding whatever you choose to do xx

So, just based on times, if you drop the nap then
30 min nap and 9pm BT (expect 10hr night based on your information)
expect 7am WU, anything later is a bonus
no nap, 8pm BT, expect 11hr night (anything longer is a bonus)
expect 7am WU, anything later is a bonus
...continue if she seems relatively ok.
...if with 8pm BT she wakes consistently later than 7am this indicates more than 11hr night, BT can move earlier.  If for instance she goes to bed at 8pm and doesn't wake until 10am (doing an unexpected 14hr night which is possible as a one off or short term or even long term if that's what she needs) then the following night I'd bring BT 1hr earlier so 7pm BT and something like 7-9am WU. But if she went to bed at 8pm and woke at 8am (12hr night, I do think this could be on the cards longer term but not necessarily right away) then I wouldn't bring BT 1hr earlier but more like 30 min.

You mention OT again. Lots of LOs get some OT. It is not always the worst thing in the world. I really believe more sleep is often lost through UT.  Being awake for an hour or more in the night singing sounds more like UT.  If there is OT with nap drop (and yes the chances are that there will be) then there will be some NWs and crying, help her resettle, tell her to go to sleep, stay with her to help her sleep.

[AMJ]

Thank you for all those scenarios creations, but I'm assuming that they would happen later on after the nap is dropped but at the beginning I have a feeling that she will be having very short nights due to OT. 

So as soon as I drop a nap CT I keep her BT 8pm  correct?

What if with 8 pm BT and no nap she consistently wakes very early, let's say 5 or 6 am WU from OT/not being able to handle the nap drop, what do I do then? Do I stick with 8 pm BT anyways for a while to get her used to no nap - sort of like when getting LOs used to set nap and BT?
For example tomorrow if she wakes at 7am I would do 8pm BT (which will make her day 13hrs long not 11hr like was suggested  at the beginning of the thread)then she wakes at 5/6am the following day,I would offer 8pm BT anyways (making her day 14hs+) for a week or longer so she gets used to it in hopes her nights lengthen and she sleeps at least till 7am, correct?

Sorry I feel like I'm asking the same questions, maybe I'm not explaining myself correctly.

P.S. She WU at 7am!!!

[AMJ]

Gosh it's 2pm and DD is just so exhausted. She is wiggling like a warm and rubbing her face. Please tell me it's ok and I should keep her up till 8pm BT.

[creations]

Ultimately only you can decide.
hugs I know you are finding this hard.

[AMJ]

Sorry I'm not sure if you missed my previous post but would you be able to answer it if you have a minute. Thanks very much

[creations]

No, I didn't miss your post. I just didn't feel there was anything else I could add, and "ultimately only you can decide" was a response to your questions. However...

(which will make her day 13hrs long not 11hr like was suggested  at the beginning of the thread)

A lot has been said since the start of the thread. You have provided a lot of information regarding nap length, day length, night length and what she will do in certain routines and what she *can't do* which has been taken on board by those supporting you so that we can make suggestions based on:
a) the information you give us
b) something that has not yet been tried

What if with 8 pm BT and no nap she consistently wakes very early

Honey there are a zillion "what ifs". What if she sleeps 14hrs and really surprises you and you are up all night worried about her sleep so don't take advantage of that HUGE sleep you could have just got for yourself?
I have no crystal ball and I have no idea what will happen today, tomorrow, next week or even in 5 mins. That's the truth of it.

I really think all that can be said has been said. Everyone has put what they think, their changing thoughts, and offered ideas (and even answered a few "what ifs" along the way). And now, it is for you to decide. You are her Mummy, you are the best ever Mummy she will ever ever have.  You *can* do this. You *can* decide what to do next.

If it helps re-read the thread, make notes, write a plan, stick it on the fridge.
 

[Aishi]

((Hugs)) hon for the OT monster fear. I've been there with both my Los especially ds and I agree with creations (who was a great support when I was dealing with ds's sleep issues!) that only you can decide what the best course is and stick with it cos you know your lo best.

From a btdt perspective ds (now 5) was a chronic ew since he was tiny his Wu time was 5.30 am! Obviously teething, age, Dev milestones, nap dropping all came into play when trying to break this Wu time. I tried all sorts with short days, micro nap days, really long days, had brief success with sleep talk but the only thing that worked was sticking to a consistently late bt (assuming sleep needs was 10.5h) when he was 4yo so 8-6.30. He still woke at 5.30 for many weeks until it gradually moved later to 6/6.30. Now his bt is sleep for 7.30 and Wu ranges between 6-7. Never thought it would happen!! The other thing that really helped was using his gro clock consistently and so more effectively by insisting he wait quietly for mr sun to come out. Once he got used to waiting he started sleeping in a bit later too. Now his clock is set to 7.05 (from 5.45 when he was ew!) and he will wait quietly till then even tho he is up much earlier some days!

Hth!

[AMJ]

Aishi and creations, thank you for your time.

[barbaraz78]

Do you have a gro clock btw? This is something I would reccommend especially with a kid prone to ew.

[AMJ]

Yes we do have it. She stays in her crib most times and waits for the sun but doesn't fall back asleep once she is up

[creations]

How are things today?

[AMJ]

She stirred at 5:50am and was tossing for about 30m then fell asleep and WU at 7:00am.  Pretty good but today she is acting like she is possessed.

[LovelyLilyandJack]

Holding your hand - if this doesn't work in the long run it's all fixable. Sometimes you have to push past the OT to get where you both need to be