Total diet overhaul for DD1

[Eva's Mummy]

DD1 has always been a fussy eater. We have been referred to the constipation clinic as she had holding issues when we started potty training and she is still doing it. We are on movicol but we have been told we need to change her diet to include 8 portions of fruit / veg (mainly veg) a day and generally healthier food. The list of foods which cause constipation are:

White (bread / pasta / rice)
Yoghurt
Bananas
Eggs

The things she eats is:

White pasta (red pesto sauce)
yoghurt
bananas
scrambled eggs
mini shreddies
wholemeal toast (too much bread)
butter no other spread
lentil soup (dips bread in, doesn't eat a lot of the soup)
cucumber
suger snap peas
frozen peas (going off these)
fish fingers
fish dippers
sausages
boiled potatoes
watermelon
grapes
apples

That's it. Anything else she will not touch, she wont even have it on her plate so I have no idea how I'm going to make this big diet overhaul.

[deb]

I'd probably keep all the meat and fruit and veg on that list that she'll eat and wean from there. It's not at all uncommon for kids to really be fond of carbs.

You may also want to investigate probiotics; you can get powders that you can put in juice or other beverage, or you can get chewables. Restoring gut flora balance is one way to help regulate the gut.

I also found that when we had to overhaul Josie's diet (she was just shy of 4YO at the time), she was more willing to try things as she helped make them - "Here, taste a little of this, see if it needs salt!" Even if she won't put it on her plate, if it's in a bowl on the kitchen counter or on a fork or spoon at the stove, that might be another story. J wouldn't touch broccoli UNLESS it was offered at preschool as a snack OR she picked it fresh from the garden - true story. Now she eats it like a champ.

You can also try using *less* yogurt - will she accept it as a dip for veggies? Maybe she can help you invent a dip with yogurt so all she gets is what sticks to a carrot.

[jessmum46]

Overall there are some great healthy foods there   I'd have a couple of thoughts - one you can't make children eat something, but you can certainly offer it.  And two, I wouldn't go too radical.  Make sure on every meal you offer there is at least one thing she will definitely eat, at least one that she will maybe eat say a familiar vegetable but served in a different way eg roast instead of boiled, and one new thing.  If for example she likes bread great, let her have some but a smaller portion so that it wouldn't be enough to fill her up for a 'whole' meal.

Will she drink juice?  An easy way to get in an extra fruit portion.  Lentil soup must have plenty of veggies?  Can you expand on the soup theme?  Purée your own fruit and stir into plain yoghurt?  Too much dairy can be constipating but a small portion per day should be ok.  You could even combine fruit with a sweet veggie eg carrot in a purée or in juice.  Grate carrot finely into anything and everything too!  Pasta sauce is a great cover for loads of veggies, again blend them in xx

[Eva's Mummy]

Thanks internet has been crashing so not been able to reply.

She is doing great and will taste any veg I give her but wont eat it. At the clinic the doc said to get her to taste for a couple of weeks then after that she has to eat it. (I don't really see that happening). Been trying to make pasta sauce with loads of veg but she refuses as its not her sauce (red pesto). I was thinking of trying to make a fruit / veg smoothie to see if she'll take that.

I've been looking into probiotics but there are so many to choose from its quite confusing to know what ones are any good.

[deb]

For probies (probiotics ), just make sure you get some with LOTS of active organisms; they're usually measured in the billions. When we were starting with them, someone suggested to me to start with a lower dose, just one capsule, and then increase gradually; some people apparently can get adverse reactions from doing too much too soon as the balance changes so abruptly, so that might be another approach. You also probably want to get the ones that are refrigerated; there are supposedly shelf-stable ones and maybe someone else can advise you on those. Oooh, and we were able to start with Flora-Bears (chewable) although in retrospect it was harder to get them off those and onto capsules later because they are kinda yummy.

Here's a sauce idea that I've started making since I'm sensitive to tomatoes: "Nomato" sauce. Carrots and a beet give it about the right color, and then you can tweak it with whatever seasoning you like (I'm a fan of tons of garlic and oregano for anything Italian-ish. And I'll shamelessly add tons and tons of basil for a pesto flavor too!) http://www.howweflourish.com/nomato-sauce/ But look at the ingredients: pretty much ALL veg.

[Buntybear]

Will she eat smoothies or ice lollies that you can make from fruit?

Have you tried soy yoghurt - might not cause the issues dairy does?

What happens of you make pasta with a different red sauce? Will she literally refuse the whole bowl? How do you approach it i.e. give her something else?

Could you mix something into the red pesto to start varying the flavour?

[Eva's Mummy]

She would definitely eat ice lollies not sure about smoothies but I can give them a go.

If I give her different pasta sauce if it looks the same she will try it then spirit out and say no.  If it looks different it won't even go in her mouth. She would then just get her yoghurt and fruit. 

I'll try soy yoghurt but she's similar that if it's not in her usual pot she won't take it. I've been putting it in a tiny bowl so I can try to swap it without her noticing.

She's a wee madam with her food.

[Buntybear]

I imagine that you have talked about food and how it is good for you until the cows come home but really now she is getting older then I would keep going with it. The way I have got Olly to expand his food repertoire is to make things he likes but change one component. Warn him well in advance and then it isn't a shock when it comes to it. With green bits in food I now ask him what he thinks will happen if he eats a bit. He can't justify not eating it and once he has thought about it like that he will actually try it. Then tells me it tastes of nothing 

[~*Nicole*~]

My LOs tend to be very picky. Here are some things that have been accepted over this way that may help.

My DH makes ice pops out of smoothies. The kids LOVE them. Even with KALE in them I think he uses bananas, pineapple, and strawberries to give it sweetness and yogurt, but you can use your own concoction.

Also, you can try adding prune juice to other things she will eat or offer prunes as they do seem to help with constipation.

DS had an issue with dairy and soy as a baby and did like almond and coconut based yogurts. Not sure if that would be helpful. You can add fruits she likes to the yogurt if that helps with the flavor being different.

I once made a pumpkin puree based sauce for pasta that was pretty good. Might be worth a try?

I used a powdered probiotic by culturelle I think it was that did not contain dairy and needed to be refrigerated. I liked that I could add it to anything I wanted. Applesauce, yogurt, juice, water, milk.....just drop in and stir and it didn't really affect the flavor.

Sometimes, not often, I will bake some muffins or make homemade granola bars. I know it has the grains you are probably avoiding, but you can add a lot of other things in that can be helpful. You can make blueberry or other fruit based muffins, you can add fruits and coconut and things like that to granola bars. Not sure if that would be helpful at all but my two seem to like that type of thing.

Another thing is, if I don't put food on the kids plates but I have it prepared or just out on the table for anyone to have or just on my plate they are often more likely to try it. And as deb said, if they help prepare the food they are more likely to try it as well.

[Eva's Mummy]

It's not going well at all. She will try anything I ask her to if she gets a peppa pig sticker but she won't eat it. She's never eaten a family meal with us.

She would live off of bread and butter if she didn't like anything else on offer. We got probiotics so hopefully that will help a wee bit.

I just don't know how to do it, debs, what did you change the diet from -to?

[jessmum46]

How are you offering new things at the moment?  Are you offering an alternative if she won't eat the first thing offered?  I would take all incentives/rewards out of it if it were me though, to me that gives her the message that the new thing to be tried isn't nice, she needs a reward for eating it yk?  I don't think that's the message you want to give her.

I wonder would you just take the plunge for a week and give her whatever the rest of the family are eating?  I mean, don't go mad and put nothing at all on her plate you know she likes, but maybe a small portion of family meal with a small portion (half slice) of bread and butter.  She chooses what she eats and how much?  But no alternative if she doesn't touch it.  Children of this age won't starve themselves, if you continue to offer variety and healthy options with only small portions of preferred foods (including puddings, keep those small even if just yoghurt and fruit) at some point she is going to have to eat something.  I wonder if she could be holding out because she knows she can get enough calories from things she does like because they will eventually be offered?

[deb]

Can she help (or rather "help" in quotes ) you in the kitchen, sample things for you? (carrot stick dipped in sour cream vs oil/salt/garlic, for example - then she gets at least 2 bites of carrot in there LOL)

This may sound like a wild shot, but give her extra exercise one afternoon, as much as she'll handle - swimming burns TONS of calories! - and see if that makes a difference; I find that ravenous kids are often less choosy about the color of their sauce.

I think it probably helped that Josie was pushing 4YO when we started because she was in a place where she could understand a bit of why we were changing the diet; for your DD's age, I might say we only have [X] amount of bread and it has to get us thru the week, and then it's gone, so now's the time to find other foods to eat instead. (Maybe "The doctor says we have to take time off bread," make the doctor the "bad guy?")

Will ponder some more - it's just about lunchtime here and all this food talk is making ME hungry!

[Buntybear]

hi - you say that you have never had a family meal together. What are you having when she is having sausages and potatoes? I seem to remember that for a few days we gave Olly control of what we ALL ate. So at dinner you could ask her what she wanted (maybe say that you have run out of bread or use Deb's advice) and then you all have it. Make a big thing of it. Put it in platters/bowls in the middle of the table and then she can serve you all HER food that SHE has chosen. OK you may have to eat foods you wouldn't normally but you could eat something else when she is out of sight!

[weaver]

How are you offering new things at the moment?  Are you offering an alternative if she won't eat the first thing offered?  I would take all incentives/rewards out of it if it were me though, to me that gives her the message that the new thing to be tried isn't nice, she needs a reward for eating it yk?  I don't think that's the message you want to give her.

Totally agree with this. 

Not the same situation but my LO2 has been "experimenting" with being a picky eater (I can see that glint in her eye, and a wee smile if I call her on being silly).  I've just said that the rule is that everyone gets the same thing on their plate and they can choose whether or not to eat it.  If you don't want to eat it, you must not be hungry.  Then I try not to say anything about food at all, what they've eaten or not.  Often, she will take up to 15 minutes to warm up to the fact that it's dinner time and start eating. But then I don't offer anything else, everyone eats the same.  That might not work for you.  We were sliding into a danger zone with her as she loves to snack (fair enough at age 3) but was getting fixated on the sugary ones.  So I've conscious changed the snacks so that she's getting very little sugar and lots of nutrition from them - she likes nuts and nut butters so we can have rice cakes or any kind of cracker really and she's happy.  I didn't talk about what we weren't eating, just offered these instead. 

If you're interested in the idea of 'hidden veg', there's a recipe book by Jessica Seinfeld and I just found this website which is the same idea. http://www.thesneakychef.com/missy_chase_lapine_bio.php

Not being sneaky because they eat them anyway, but I made chickpea and peanut butter blondies last week - no sugar apart from the  measly number of dark chocolate chips I put in.  Tons of protein.  Might be something to try if you have a food processor.

Do you think it's more of a texture issue or what?  I know Sara from NZ had lots of bother with her LO and texture issues, I'm sure you've seen her thread on the division of responsibility model...I can't find it right now!  Bother! Will look again later.  This is what it was about:
http://ellynsatterinstitute.org/dor/divisionofresponsibilityinfeeding.php

You're getting some great advice here.  Super tough for you.  Have faith, you'll get there, and she won't starve

[creations]

Here's the thread referred to above
The Division Of Responsibility trust model for selective eating child

Along with what pps have said I wonder if you've considered a more drastic 'cold turkey' (or almost) on the bread?  I would agree that I would never give DS a plate of food knowing there was nothing on it which he liked but equally I would not allow him to 100% dictate his meals or be selective to the point of taking an unbalanced diet or one which could be making him poorly.  When DS was very little he had a short while when he was way too keen on fruit, he would indicate the fruit bowl and fridge where I kept fresh fruit and the cupboard where he knew the dried fruit was kept - and he would be VERY insistent.  When his diet became unbalanced I decided to do an almost-not-quite-cold-turkey for several days or until the asking/shouting/insisting stopped and the rest of his diet balanced out again.  My reason for not going 100% cold turkey is because fruit is healthy and will remain in his diet but in a reasonable quantity.  The first couple of days were the worst, proper crying, I sat on the kitchen floor and held him whilst he shouted, cried and sobbed, and I told him I had to take care of him, that's my job.  By about day 3 it was over. He was eating his meals properly again and accepting small portions of fruit without being grumpy or overly demanding for more.
It might be worth considering a strict limit on those constipating foods which have been identified.
It's true children will not starve themselves, when it really comes to it, they will eat anything.
I know it's hard to be so strict though.

[weaver]

Thanks creations I was looking on the wrong boards!

I have to echo what creation is saying too.  I think there may have to be some unpleasant scenes to make this change for DD.

I wanted to add that LO1 has had constipation issues and what really made a huge difference was simply upping his water intake.  So simple, so effective. 

[jessmum46]

Yes fluid intake made a big difference for DD too, in our case we accepted some dilute sugar-free squash as she wasn't that interested in water, but once she got used to drinking more she did actually start drinking much more water too x