"Playing" in the night

[Truly Blessed]

Thanks   I am just so annoyed with myself for ruining a perfectly good routine 

It's only a perfectly good routine if it is still working Honey, so you're not ruining it. On the sleep front things change so very often, so really it has been fortuitous that the last routine worked for so long. Don't beat yourself up. Take it from me it hurts

x.

[CattyPads]

Hi again

I need help please! Things have gone progressively wrong and now my routine is a mess!

Every night he now takes about an hour to go to sleep, so he falls asleep about 11pm  and then wakes around 8:30/9am. Before things went wrong about 3ish weeks ago he was sleeping 10pm till 10-11am. He still naps ok, around 1hr 45mins, and falls asleep straight away.

I think capping his nap is not enough to fix this mess  and I don't know where to begin!

Thanks x

Oops only just saw your latest reply, didnt see we were on page two x
Oh and, it got ruined (I think!) when we started napping later cause we were out at the pool or the beach etc, but not sure?

[Truly Blessed]

Hi Sweetie,
 
Sorry I'm late on this, it's just a busy time. I've just seen it and I'm off out to a concert now. I've got family coming to stay in the morning, but I will try and get onto this tonight, and in the meantime I'll give it some thought. It can take some time for a new routine to kick in, so hang in there, but also just to say maybe there is some development going on, and to have a think about any leaps he is making at the moment.

((HUGS)) Vicki.x.

[CattyPads]

Thanks vicky, whenever you can is more than great 

I know it's not a tragic situation, but as he is missing out on about 2ish hours per night I worry. I see him yawning a bit during the day too.

Developmental...speech maybe? He is starting to put two/three words together at the moment...wouLd that count? I can't think of anything else?

Honestly take your time to reply, you are being so kind as it is xx

[Truly Blessed]

Hello Lovely,

Developmental...speech maybe? He is starting to put two/three words together at the moment...wouLd that count? I can't think of anything else?

Hard as it is to believe this ^ can affect sleep, so it may be relevant. These developmental leaps often cause extra tiredness but affect the ability to sleep as the brain finds it difficult to switch off . If you think back there may be other times you can identify this to be true, like around the time he started to form sounds/walk etc.

I wonder if it may be a better move to try leaving his nap at 2 hours and lengthen his day :/. So it would look like this:

WU 10 am

Nap 1 til 2

BT 11 pm

I don't know if 11 pm BT could work for you as a family or not  My thinking is this: If the speech development IS relevant and he is extra tired because of it then cutting the nap now may be bad timing. However lengthening his day may mean that he falls asleep straight away at BT (as he isn't going over until then anyway.) It's a punt, but may work. The thing is, you need to find out how he needs his sleep spread. Some LO's do better keeping the long nap and shortening the night, and some need a lot of night sleep and do fine on a shorter nap, but only trial and error help you find the answer. Of course sometimes you have to force one or the other depending on work/nursery/school etc, and it is out of your hands  .

The alternative would be to keep the nap shorter for now and try lengthening his day anyway. It really is trial and error unfortunately, and best to try something for a week or so before drawing conclusions, although I know how hard that can be.

Let me know your thoughts Hun.x.

[CattyPads]

Thanks vicky,

Well he is currently waking up between 8:30/9, not 10 (not sure if you meant that or if it's a proposed routine). And yes 11 would be too late...specially considering when he starts nursery I'd like him to be in bed by 9 the latest.
This is why I am sooo annoyed, he was fine going down at 9:30ish, would fall asleep straight away then speed til 10 or sometimes even 11 the next day.

To clarify,and sorry if I repeat myself, can me pushing the nap back cause we are out be causing this mess? I mean, it's gotta be that or the developmental thing. Or not. Who knows. 
It would be such a shame if we can't do the usual plan that clashes with his nap as he enjoys it so much, but he needs his sleep 
Sorry for my ramblings.

[Truly Blessed]

To clarify,and sorry if I repeat myself, can me pushing the nap back cause we are out be causing this mess?

Sorry Honey, I thought you meant you did this on the odd occasion. Did you mean you pushed the nap back every day to later recently  TBH even if you did he should be more than able to handle a 6 hour A time as his age.x.

[CattyPads]

No sorry, if I am home I put him down at the usual time (15:45/4pm) but if i am out then i put him down later. So I haven't been regular with the routine. Then again is WU is a lot earlier nowadays.

Things are getting even worse, over an hour to go to sleep and waking as early as 8am now. 

Surely it's not the sheep, as at nap time he goes down in seconds and there is no sheep games? (My husband was on about the sheep again). I have been cutting the nap by 15mins for a few days but no results yet, maybe I am being impatient. He looks tired to me, he starts yawning at 11/12ish in the morning, after all he is used to 12hrs sleep but is more like 9 now.

Sorry to go on, I am just worried.

[Truly Blessed]

Hi Honey,

if I am home I put him down at the usual time (15:45/4pm) but if i am out then i put him down later. So I haven't been regular with the routine.

If he is sensitive to routine change then yes, it may be that the inconsistency put a spanner in the works. But this seems like more than that to me. I suspect development is at play somewhere, but what do you think about bringing his nap earlier just for a short time and keeping it at 1 hr 45, if this is achievable  As his nights are short at the moment, he should take an earlier nap and it would be more restorative the earlier it is. Then hopefully he would settle sooner at BT. I've done this before during regression.

Thoughts  and ((HUGS)) x.

[CattyPads]

Vicky thank you for putting up with my many questions, I swear since we started chatting things have got worse and worse hence my trillion questions.

Well I have reached breaking point, last night he took one and a half hours to fall asleep, then had 4 NW, then woke up early, and today he had several tantrums out of pure exhaustion. He has never ever slept this bad!

I like your idea of the earlier nap. Can you suggest a routine please? This is how it was before it all went wrong
WU 9:30/10:30
S 3:30-5:30
BT 9:30

Now we have something like
WU 8-8:30 ish
S 16:00-18:00
BT 9:45 but he sleeps at 11/11:15

I am willing to do whatever it takes to get back on track ie cancel outings or whatever.

Ideally I'd love to get back to the 9ish to 9/9:30ish 12 hr day but I am open to any suggestions. Thanks xx

[Truly Blessed]

Vicky thank you for putting up with my many questions, I swear since we started chatting things have got worse and worse hence my trillion questions.

That's what we're here for Honey! I'll just do my best to answer them 

Can I ask how he is when he wakes in the night, and when is awake for that long at BT, is he upset 

Can you rule out pain  is he okay in the day. It's just sometimes you can miss things like ear infection for eg, because were always focused on it being a sleep issue, just thought it was worth mentioning.

Ideally I'd love to get back to the 9ish to 9/9:30ish 12 hr day but I am open to any suggestions. Thanks xx

A 12 hour day may be too much to ask if he deals better with a longer nap Hun  sorry.

Maybe try this:

WU 8.30

Nap 1.30 to 3.30

BT 9.00/9.30 (depending on mood and how tired he seems)

I suggest this routine in order for him to catch up on the OT as a temporary measure, as I don't think it will stick for the duration, but once he is all caught up we can look at it again, if this works for a while, I think it's worth a try.

If it's developmental, it may be that he goes back to something similar to before when it has passed, or that cutting the nap and lengthening the day will work at a later date.

If he seems ready for the nap even sooner, I think it would be worth a shot. Just adjust the times I posted, according to what time he wakes.

Good luck Sweetie.x.

[CattyPads]

Hey

Thanks again,
When he takes ages to sleep he doesn't complain APART from when the sheep stops singing (sigh) the sheep sings for 20mins or so, so he screams, I go in, I turn the sheep on, give him a kiss or a cuddle and he is happy as larry again. So, as it takes him about an hour to sleep I go in an average of three times.

If we have a NW it's a case of going in, sheep cuddle and he sleeps again straight away.

I've been doing an earlier nap for the last three days, about an hour earlier, no results yet. Maybe I need to do it even earlier.

I have never ever had any problems this bad with his sleep not even teething, on holidays or anything, so I guess I can rule out developmental? I dunno x

[Truly Blessed]

I have never ever had any problems this bad with his sleep not even teething, on holidays or anything, so I guess I can rule out developmental? I dunno x

((HUGS)) Hun, maybe, but the longer you parent the more you realise how much development can throw sleep into chaos. I'd stick with the earlier nap for a few days.

Did you rule out pain?

Vicki.x.

[CattyPads]

Yes pan is ruled out 

Ok I will see how it goes for a few days and keep you posted!

[CattyPads]

Me Again 

OMG now he is doing it an nap time (when put down earlier) - when sheep runs out he calls, only once though, then he goes to sleep. Today he woke after one hour  asking for the sheep again. I was gonna ask if he is OT or UT, surely OT  as at 1:30pm he was yawning with a seven mile stare (last night he slept 11pm-8am    which is dreadful for him). I put him down at 15:20 today.

I am starting to despair, my DH and DS nurse who I saw today both said chill out and it'll be ok, but I am freaking out 

Ps. I've been meaning to mention, he knows how to switch the sheep on himself, as we hear the sheep in the night sometimes, so why does he call for us to switch it on only sometimes, any ideas?
And
Ps2 my DH heard the sheep at 6:30am....surely he is exhausted