SS gone since illness and daycare - HELP

[First mum]

Hi there, going round in circles a bit and was hoping this forum could give me some ideas to try.  My 14m angel is recovering from a nasty ear infection and a typical winter cold.  Her biggest issue has been a cough which has played havoc with her sleep.  Getting to sleep, staying asleep, getting back to sleep (you get the picture)!!

So first problem is self settling during the day has gone to pot.  Currently needs me to touch her (face, bum, back) and sometimes stroke or pat.  This is working and doesn't generally take too long but I've tried leaving the room and we almost have instant hysteria.  I'm sure there are loads of milestones going on plus the ever present teething but just want to know how other mums have handled this type of situation.  I would love to get her back ss especially as she is at daycare 2 days a week and they managed to get 10 minutes yesterday from her??? 

My second problem is since daycare my angel falls asleep feeding at night.  Didn't really think it was too much of a problem, we would sometimes have a blip in the first hour and one of us would go in and resettle her no problems.  Unless something else was going on she would be sleeping on average 11 hours.  Prior to daycare I was putting her down awake and she would ss in less than 10 minutes.  Since the napping has turned to poo with the illness I generally have a pretty over tired bubba for her bedtime feed and we have a struggle.  When I put her down awake we have a similar performance as during the day but the settling can take anywhere from 30 mins to 2 hours plus multiple wakings. 

General day (not at daycare)

Wake 5-5:30am
Breakfast 6:15
Nap 1 at 9am (ish) previously 1 hour but I'm happy with 30 mins if I can get it
Lunch 11:30-12
Nap 2 at 1:30 (ish) since daycare max 1 hour usually 30-40 mins
Bedtime 5:45-6:15

Are my expectations out of whack?  Am I rushing her? 

Would love to hear your thoughts.
Thanks

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

I'm wondering if part of the issue is that she is ready to shift to one nap? Illness, teething and daycare sure throw things off but in the meantime maybe she is ready for a routine change and all those things are clouding it. Are her daycare days spaced out or consecutive? How do they try to get her to sleep?

[First mum]

Hi there I am thinking this may be the case to.  Daycare is Wednesday and Thursdays.  Up until recently she would self settle there as well but they are doing similar to me rubbing or patting her bum.

I've been mixing it up a bit the last 2 days but not really sure what I'm doing??? 
Yesterday looked like this
Wake 5am
Nap 9:20 for 1 hour (took me about 25 mins to get her asleep)
Nap 1:30 ( I tried for neary 40 mins and no luck
Bed 6pm
Wake 11:30 resettled (took about 25 mins)
Wake 4:00 resettled twice and up at 5:45

So far today she had a snooze for about 15 mins on me during her morning feed about 7:45
Tired signs at about 9:45 so tried a nap
Nap 1 10:10 for 35 mins resettled twice but only got another 10 mins each time. Up at 11:10

I have no idea what this means for lunch which is normally 11:30 or when to attempt another nap today.

My husband and I are feeling a bit lost!

[First mum]

Today was much the same as yesterday.  We had some really good tired signs around her usual 1:30 nap time so gave it a go.  No luck, I tried for 30 minutes and got her up.  Popped her in the pushchair at 2:30 and went for a walk, she talked and babbled and lay quietly but no sleep.

Is now fast asleep (6pm), had a really good dinner and breastfeed but asleep in my arms which as mentioned above am worried that the evening breastfeed is going to become a prop (or already is)  She is just so tired.

I've done a bit more reading today on the various forums and am feeling a bit more confident to mix it up a bit for her.  Not sure how to stall the cycle we are in with NW and EW as my aim would be to get her to an 11:30-12pm nap but 6 hours A in the morning is just too long.  She has always been a 6-6:15 BT.

How do I start to lengthen her A time in the morning?  With her resisting a second nap or even a CN I don't see how I am going to tackle her sleep debt.  We have been on a 5am wake up since she became unwell so with a 5 hours A time this is only 10am and if she is only sleeping 30-60 minutes I feel stuck.

I'd appreciate your suggestions. 

Just to add, despite the lack of sleep she is really lovely during the day.  The hardest part of her day is when I am trying to make her nap!  Once I get her up she goes back to being her cheerful talkative self.

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

Well at least her being in a good mood helps! So her day is mainly 5 am to 6pm? At that age we were similar length of day but 7 am -8 pm with a nap at 12:30/1:00. I think I would push for a later am nap and then do whatever you can to lengthen it and try a one nap day. If 5 hours A isn't enought then maybe push for 6 - it will probably make for a cranky lo but if she keeps going down ut for the nap and then by bedtime is likely ot from not having a good nap. The whole day could be shifted eventually too.

[First mum]

Thanks for your support!  We had a pretty horrid night.  Up at 9 and my husband and I took turns settling her until 11.  It was about every 15 minutes :-(she then woke at 1 but it only took me about 10 minutes to resettle her and same again at 3.  Awake at 5 but as I was so tired I couldn't face getting up so brought her into bed with us and she slept for another hour.

Am going to try for an 11am nap today.  Will keep you posted!

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

Oh yikes! What a night...fx things go well with the nap!

[First mum]

Much better day!  We had a lovely morning together, busy folding and unfolding washing and cleaned out a few cupboards I hadn't planned on 

Had a half lunch at 10:30 and started to get a bit quiet in the highchair so decided to roll with the 11am attempt.

Put her down and came out and turned the timer on for 5 minutes and listened to her shouty cry, started to get a bit upset so went in.  Told her again it was sleepy bobbies time and she needed to lie down.  I then sat beside her and quietly shushed.  2mins and she was out.  Didn't have to pat her bum or even touch her!!  Hubby an I did a bit of a dance in the kitchen.  Only slept for 40 mins but managed to resettle (multiple times) so am thinking we got about 70 mins in total. 

Am going to aim for another in bed and asleep by 6pm.  Gosh I hope we have a better night!

[First mum]

So last night was better than the night before but still pretty bad 

Asleep 5:55pm awake 6:15pm and resettled easily.  Awake at 9:15pm till 10:45pm when I finally managed to settle her.  Pretty upset at times and I thought it may have been teeth.  Woke again at 4:30 and managed to settle easily until 6:10. 

As today was day 4 of minimal day sleep she seemed really tired this morning and also quite accident prone.  I let her have a 15 minute catnap at 9:30 and then tried for her proper nap at 11:30.  That was a fail so tried again at 12:30 and managed to get just over 1 hour with a resettle in the middle.

This afternoon has been pretty good again and fingers crossed tonight is better.

Do you recommend the little catnap in the morning or should I just keep pushing through till 11am?  It seems that such a short nap gives her the ability to go a lot longer.

Will the length in her single nap eventually lengthen?  Is there anything that I can be doing to support this?

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

Because her nights have been rough I would for sure try the tiny catnap. As for nap length, yes it usually takes a bit but the one nap usually gets longer - but not always! My DD3 never took a long nap when we went to one nap, it just isn't her thing.

[First mum]

Thanks for your support.  Much better night last night.  Down and asleep at 6pm.  I heard her maybe 3 times coughing but she ss after each.  Woke at 5 and I couldn't resettle so up at 5:45.  Pretty pleased with the 11 hours overnight so was all set to try for an 11am nap but just could not keep her awake during her morning feed at 7:30 so let her cat nap for between 10-15 minutes.

Have had a busy morning out and about and only just managed to keep her awake on the drive home, think she may have just fallen asleep as we pulled into the driveway.

Down at 11:05 and refusing the nap.  Happy as pie if I am in the room talking to me and pointing to various things around the room.  But will not lie down and shakes her head and says NO when I ask her to lie down.  Pretty intense crying if I leave the room.  Up at 11:40 and now playing happily in the lounge.  Will try again at 12pm.

I've never really gotten good tired signs from her so that was why we always went for scheduled naps from an early age.  They have always worked well so I am sure once we get over this hump they will work again for her.  I think it is the cn that is messing her up.  I think it might be me that is more worried about a 6 hour A time rather than her.  Always a really happy bunny and only time it gets a bit yuck at the moment is when I am trying to make her take a nap 

I really don't like the 5am wake-up  but when she has slept for 11 hours I cant really complain.  But then we come back to the problem of the awake time??

Do you think 11am is a good place to start for her nap even with a 5am wake up? Any suggestions on managing the 5am wake-up?

[First mum]

hmmmm went to try again at 12 and had pooed so ended up being 12:10.  Fought until almost exactly 12:30 and then gave in??  I'm still settling her with patting but same as yesterday.

Maybe 11am is too early for her?  Or 11am on no cn days at 12:30 on the days that she does?

Any suggestions to try and stop settling her and get her back to settling herself?

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

I think 11 am on a no cn day sounds good and later otherwise (depending on the timing of that cn I suppose!) We always did more set naps too as by the third kid it was just simpler as I couldn't always catch her tired signs!  I'm not sure if you will have any luck shifting the 5 am wake unless you have a day where you have two naps spaced out more and push bedtime later?

[First mum]

Not a good day for my LO. Fell asleep at the lunch table at day-care today at 11:20 and they popped her into the cot.  Woke but settled again with some shushing but only slept 10 minutes  they tried again early afternoon but she refused.

They said she had a lovely afternoon and was like a lo who had had a 2 hour nap.  Pretty upset getting into jammies tonight and really struggled to keep her awake while feeding.  Fast asleep at 5:50.

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

That is a long day for such a little one! I suppose they cannot spend too much time trying to get kids to sleep - do they sleep all in a room together? Maybe she is really over stimulated there?

[First mum]

They do all sleep together.  Up until the decision to transition to 1 nap with the illness and ss going out the window they were spending some naps up to 40 mins trying to settle her.  I am pretty happy with what they are doing it just doesn't seem to be working.

Despite such a yucky day we had a pretty great night. Bt 5:50pm up 5:40amith a blip at 7:50pm for about 10 minutes,

I looked back through her daycare book and the last time she had a good independent sleep there was the 29/6 which is right on the mark for when she got ill.  I took her to the doctors 2 days later.

Due to being unwell we also missed a whole week of daycare so its kind of like we are starting again.  I'm staying positive.  We will get there again 

Just need to be super careful on the days following daycare that I get on top of any sleep debt.

[lauradj]

I just want to chime in that when we transitioned DS1 from 2-1, there was a solid 2 weeks of bumpiness.  There were EW all over the place and it wasn't until we set the bed time that everything started to even out again.  I was trying to do early bed time on the days his cat nap didn't happen but that just did not work!  It took me almost a solid month to transition DS1 and I kept the catnap in the afternoon until I had him going to sleep at noon. 
Could you request the day care spends more time helping her fall asleep?  I remember there were certain babies that were laid down first because they took longer to settle and then the quick-to-fall-asleep set, my son and his two buddies, were laid down a little later because they'd just nod off.  Maybe the workers could do that?

[First mum]

Thanks lauradj.  I collected her early from daycare today as unwell again 

I don't have much wriggle room with moving her bt.  It's always been 6-6:15pm.  We tried when she was a bit younger to shift her whole day and it didn't go well.  If we rewind a few months we were 6-6 which was great.  Teeth, leaps, personality etc and we are where we are now.  I'm still pretty happy with her 11-11.5 that we were getting but with the day naps getting shorter and shorter and now transitioning I feel like I was only treading water and not improving anything for her.

I've got her now for 5 days in a row before daycare next week so am hoping to follow the same plan as last week.  Regardless of wake up (within reason) nap at 11:30 and I'm going to try my best to avoid a cn in the morning if I can.  We had good success with a 70 minute nap with no resettling last week and I managed to stretch her to 95 mins with a bit of patting so am confident we can do this!!!  She has always responded well to things we have tried I've just been a bit unsure with the illness and then the self settling going and daycare which is new (8 weeks).

What schedule did you follow, did you have to try a couple?

[lauradj]

Before DS stared day care, I knew they had lunch at 11:30-12:00 and naps around 12:30-1 so I worked towards that.  I remember that I tried to make the morning nap the long one and just a quick 45 mins in the afternoon, sometimes an hour if the morning nap was total rubbish.  Once I was able to push him to 11:30 I think I abandoned the cat nap (that's when we had all the wonky early bed times that didn't work), and then I just kept gently pushing him until I got him to 12:30.  The day care staff all said a lot of the kids just push on through because they're so busy they don't even realize they're tired.