Author Topic: long NW need to repair,insomnic now?  (Read 10010 times)

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Offline gejun

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Re: long NW need to repair,insomnic now?
« Reply #75 on: August 17, 2015, 07:00:15 am »
so maybe I tried the catnap too early? I worry about refusal, so start it too early, should began around 3:15pm? 14:45 was too early? he was asleep in car or pram many times before, but on different time.


Re first nap, the night for 8.13 still had long nw, so the nap on 8.14 maybe a overtired one after shorter one, and he accept the cn easliy. on 8.16, still shorter A, short nap. the only longer one is based on night without NW, but super long A.

should I wake him on 7:00 this morning,? I just worry about if wake him, he may meltdown before 11:30, he just fell asleep before 6am.
 
Thanks for your patience.

He was clingy from yesterday,  it seems like OT.


Offline gejun

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Re: long NW need to repair,insomnic now?
« Reply #76 on: August 21, 2015, 03:47:46 am »
Hi,
good news is he accept cn in car.

but anything else improved little, nap at 11:30, nap of lengh varied from 1h10~1h20, so LO acceptted the cn these days in car, at 16:00pm, 20max, but he woke still too early, cann't get a wu after 5:30, some nw here and there, some longer as one hour at from 1:00 or 2:00a,, short at 3:00, 4:00, .
8.17
WU 7.45 (long nw, cos he took the cn too late at 17:00)
nap1:11:35~12:45
nap2:15:50~16:10
BT:19:00
8.18
wu 6:35( nw 1:002:00, short nw, 3:00,4:00)
nap1: 11:32~12:47
nap2:15:50~16:15  woke himself
BT:19:00, asleep 15mins later
8.19
wu 6:00 (nw 2:00~3;00)
nap1:11:3012:45
nap2:15:50~16:09 I woke
BT:19:00
NW: some short nw maybe
wu:5:20

It seems like it took him three days back to normal wu, but once long nw gone, he just woke up early, then it will be too long to 11:30, short nap again, EW or long nw, I had it at least one, even 10.5 night is hard to get with such less sleep. once he woke from main nap, cann't resettle cos it at least 1h. once he woke on morning, he was always happy.
shoud I push set nap time?

Offline LovelyLilyandJack

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Re: long NW need to repair,insomnic now?
« Reply #77 on: August 21, 2015, 05:56:10 am »
I think I would.  We've tried it the other way with a shorter A... For Lily and Jack that cn would be what's causing problems - both of them had a point in the day where all sleep had to be done or it affected nights. Jack is super low sleep needs but even at around 8/9 months any sleep after 2.30 was a problem for us, for example. But I know that worked ok for marta's LO, so she may have some suggestions? That's the thing, they're all so different, it's a case of trying different things until you stumble upon something that works!

Marta - what do you think?



Offline gejun

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Re: long NW need to repair,insomnic now?
« Reply #78 on: August 21, 2015, 06:53:00 am »
  I felt the cn play a positive role in his total sleep, even 20min , but the main nap cann't be consistent with a decent length, so when nap is 1h10~1h15min, sometimes UT nap, sometimes ot nap, and cann't resettle, then cn is necessary.
it's so  contradictory.
now, inconsistent wu, inconsistent nap length, and it seems like once a cn was not on a right time, right length, or miss,everything will be much mess, bad circle.
From mum's instinct and his history logs for months,I still think he is a lsn, now if I want to get a decent nap like 1.5h, his A could be 5~5.5h after a bad night, 5.5~6,  after a better night. From this week, I also found if he took 10mins at BT or main nap, he always was ut, if he was  tired , he settled quickly.
his ideal routine may be wu 6, BT 7, nap 1.5h, at 12or 12:30, one solid nap , just it's no way to get there now.

I never got a solid 2h, even got, mostly like compensation for night, then result in disaster in following night.

so kate, you mean push to 12, still offer cn at 3:30, BT 19:00, If that, most likely he will refuse cn at 3:30, except the main nap is an OT one, and less than 1h15min,. I hate the nap 1h15min, if the nap

he will be 12month next week. I saw many other posts about lsn, they got their mum crazy like me. it seems like once we cann't figure it out before 12month, it will

Offline gejun

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Re: long NW need to repair,insomnic now?
« Reply #79 on: August 21, 2015, 07:08:31 am »
 never be figured out, :'(
sorry , a mistake, I felt the cn play a passive role in his total sleep

Offline LovelyLilyandJack

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Re: long NW need to repair,insomnic now?
« Reply #80 on: August 21, 2015, 07:24:27 am »
My lsn boy drove me crazy too... That's why set naps worked for me - it stopped me agonising and assessing so much.  We rarely got a 2hr nap either btw, even on one nap - 1hr 15/20 was normal for us and 2 sleep cycles.

I can't quote on my phone but yes, I'd do what you said in your paragraph starting "so kate...". That worked for us, though it did take a while to get fully through the transition and 12 months is a big developmental time too. He may be nearer 13 months before things settle.... But if you think his A time is 5-6 hrs then he should definitely just be on one nap, in my opinion. And if his total sleep is 12-12.5 hrs in 24 then he probably only does need a 1hr 20 nap to get a decent night.

It's something else to try, anyway!



Offline Martini~

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Re: long NW need to repair,insomnic now?
« Reply #81 on: August 21, 2015, 09:25:59 am »
Ahh, I say I have to think...:). I need to go through you logs Gejun as this starts to confuse me.

Nap is shorter than it was when at 9:30/10:00am which may mean something - but I have to think if this can be OT or maybe UT. Catnap is also something which may interfere. The other thing is habit - if he has a habit of sleeping 10.5h at night we have to break the habit and pushing nap may not be enough. Have you ever tried W2S? I need to think a bit and will post in the evening, ok?

No to mention that my ASN son who was sleeping 2h for last 3 months on his nap and still doing 12h nights needed 1 nap at 12mo and was sleeping less in February than he is sleeping now:)!
~Marta

Offline gejun

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Re: long NW need to repair,insomnic now?
« Reply #82 on: August 21, 2015, 10:37:31 am »
wise Martti,

I haven't tried wake to sleep, I am not confident with how to do it.  :(I also found if the 1.5h nap based on a super longer A, was not be restorative as expected, but anything else I can do if he woke before 5:30?

yes, my logs are really mess, sleep in, odd nap, multiple nw,  fixture of ot and ut. some nw at 22:30 maybe ot, cried loudly.  super EW,

the long nw at 3/4/5 disappeared, but one hour nw at 1/2/3 appeared, ot?  short nw or stirred, or moaning appeared at  3/4/5, I am lost at it.

I got several longer nap as 1.5h based on 5~5.5A before set nap 11:30, but all base on long nw night. and the latest 1.5h nap occured on 8.15, which is 6.5A, he fighted cn that day, it just curious why he  cried loudly sometimes in car,if not sleepy, why not playing but crying,  and sometime took cn easliy, .
about habit of 10.5h , I think two months ago, we had several sleep through with 11h, do you remember I tried 20mins morning bridge nap, aim to 2h noon nap? I got several good 11h night with broken 2h noon nap and short noon nap like 1h20min, but based on good night, once got solid 2h noon nap, night became worse, then noon nap became shorter, night became better,  it's so unstable, so I gave it up.

now nap after 4pm really a fight, like CIO in car, he like playing in car, and if the cn closed to 5pm, it was a disaster for night.

his mood after nap 1h10min~1h15min is odd, looks like confused with it. with 1h30 , much better.

Kate, I prefer set naps and BT too, I am not skilled of play A. why you set BT at 19:45, early BT:19:15? based on 7am wu? I kept BT at 19:00,cos I think wu is 5:30~6:00 possibly, but now wu without long nw was 5:00~5:30, too long to noon, and he took several times cn closed to 4pm, not 3:30.
it's hard now seem like I missed the window for transition.

Offline LovelyLilyandJack

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Re: long NW need to repair,insomnic now?
« Reply #83 on: August 21, 2015, 13:26:21 pm »
If he's waking at 6 at the latest, I'd do a 7pm BT too.  I think at the time I said 7.45 BT because he was having those long nws and waking at 7 or 8am. I found with J that a 13hr day was about right, up to 14 hrs on occasion if things went wrong for a day, but no more than 13.5hrs routinely.  So if he's waking 5.30 - 6 then I'd say 7pm is about right  :)  We did 6.40 - 7 for a while on that wu, where 6.40 was an EBT  and 7 normal.

I'll refrain from commenting on anything else to give marta a chance to have a think and come back to you :)  :-*



Offline gejun

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Re: long NW need to repair,insomnic now?
« Reply #84 on: August 22, 2015, 05:41:03 am »
Thanks Kate,I kept the day with long nw too short maybe.
Marta,I think he maybe some OT now, looks clingy. some short nw and stirred on midnight may be indicated ot?
he showed tired cues at 10:30.(wu 5:35, some short nw) he slept 1h30mins at 11:30 today, but cried at 35mins.

Offline gejun

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Re: long NW need to repair,insomnic now?
« Reply #85 on: August 30, 2015, 02:22:38 am »
Hi Kate,
sorry to bother you again. ds will be 12month two days later.  I found his total sleep is 12h max, I cann't get any 1.5h nap except for after a  bad night or short night like 10hrs.
could you post your routine at 12month and 13month?
I remmbered you mentioned still had nw at 12month with 1h20min nap, what's the nw length?
 and nw disappeared when he nap reduced to 45~60mins?

Offline LovelyLilyandJack

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Re: long NW need to repair,insomnic now?
« Reply #86 on: August 30, 2015, 05:28:58 am »
I will look it up later and post it, but we were on one set nap at around 12 by then I think.  I'll double check and let you know - we're travelling today and heading off shortly.



Offline LovelyLilyandJack

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Re: long NW need to repair,insomnic now?
« Reply #87 on: August 30, 2015, 06:06:19 am »
Ok, it was easier to find than I thought :) This is what we were doing at around 12 months:

WU: 6 - 6.15
Nap: 12.15 - 2.30
BT: 7.30

If I remember correctly, the 2hr naps didn't last long - I  had to push them back to 12.30 / 12.45 before long, and we were still getting one or two long nws a week on that routine. After 13 months I toughened up on how I treated nws, J slept more at night and his naps shortened by themselves to 45-60 minutes.  He still did 1hr 20 if he was tired for a little while, but we were starting nnds by 18/19 months I think, so it didn't last long!

We've only had one long nw since 13 months and that was when nursery let him nap in the afternoon (3ish I think). He was later to bed and up at 4am the next day :(
« Last Edit: August 30, 2015, 06:08:08 am by LovelyLilyandJack »



Offline gejun

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Re: long NW need to repair,insomnic now?
« Reply #88 on: August 30, 2015, 10:32:26 am »
so his total sleep in 24hours at 12, 13 month is around 11.5~12hr?  :osuper lsn!when he drop the nap, did his sleep need reduced again?
I hope ds is not so much lsn, hope I could figure it out in one month.  is possible it total sleep on one nap more than on two naps?I found we can only got 12hrs max sleep on two naps now.

Offline LovelyLilyandJack

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Re: long NW need to repair,insomnic now?
« Reply #89 on: August 30, 2015, 16:56:46 pm »
When we got to the point where total sleep was less on 2 naps than with one then we went cold turkey to one nap, so yes, it is possible to get more sleep on one nap, but usually only in the latter stages of a transition.

Yeah, J is super lsn. Just before he completely dropped his nap his overall sleep dropped to 11 - 11.5hrs in 24. We're currently hovering at about that now - most nights are 11hr 15 with the occasional one shorter it longer.