Author Topic: long NW need to repair,insomnic now?  (Read 10195 times)

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Offline gejun

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Re: long NW need to repair,insomnic now?
« Reply #90 on: September 04, 2015, 00:08:57 am »
Hi Kate,
I am again need some advice, now I hit some point I think. I found I can only get 12h max total sleep in 24hs on two naps, but 12.5hrs on one nap.
 the latest wu I got on two naps was 5:20, it looks like i want to get a 10.5hr night sleep, wu 5:30, only chance is  leaving a 1.5hr for day sleep,but 1.5h days sleep for two naps is difficult. 1.5h morning nap with a 15mins cn or 1hr15min with a 20mins maybe?

I also found andy cn after 16:00 will result in UT at bt, then disturb the night. and if the bedtime was too early, he took over 10mins to be asleep, which means super UT for him, leading to early wu or ut nw.some day I got a 1.5h, and offer a 15mins cn closed to 16:00, then leading to UT at bed time and a 40mins nw .

I got two sleep through this week, night sleep was about 11hs20mins with a UT morning nap 1h10~1h15mins based on very late wu(7~8am, sleep in), then ended up the day with early bed time, . then another  45mins UT nap at 11:30am,   he accepted cn at 3:30pm, woke him 20mins later,  should I allow more sleep for cn if morning nap is so short? but if more, he may UT at bedtime, last night only 10hrs, so less day sleep didn't lead to a longer night on two naps.  like a circle. I can identify UT or OT nap cos his much differrnt mood with them.

so my question is I think I am in the late transition, should head to one nap now,nothing improved with two naps,  but I cann't get a later wu time like 6:00am based on BT 19:00 and two naps, even if I get a wu closed to 6, but could short night effect A much?  or should I aim for a early routine as  wu5:30   s11:30  bt 18:30 firstly or even 5:00, 11:00, 18:00, then tweak it later?

How did you  deal with the cold turcky ?I also remmbered you mentioned J got a long nw once cos his nap too late, then woke up at 4:00 am, how to deal with it?sorry so many questions, Just feel so closed to one nap but cann't break the circle now.
 

Offline LovelyLilyandJack

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Re: long NW need to repair,insomnic now?
« Reply #91 on: September 05, 2015, 07:13:23 am »
I think when you get to this point it's easiest to just move to a set nap time tbh, and just hold on for a bumpy ride! Your suggestion of a set nap at 11.30 initially sounds good, and you can move it 20 minutes either way depending on WU, but that's it.  Otherwise you hold on,  and trust that things will even out in the end. E.g. If you get an UT EW, then I'd hold on for as close to a normal nap time as you can, knowing he'll get a little OT but also that he can probably handle it as a one off. Then I'd resettle any nap less than 1.5hrs and stick with a normal BT.  It's the only way you can avoid BT getting earlier and /or that afternoon A getting really long and / or getting stuck on 2 naps.

The only exception I'd make is if you can see he's getting tired after 1 / 2 / 3 / 4 (however many) one nap days, then I'd try and AP a 15 minute cn a couple of hours after WU, and then do normal nap time, or slightly later. Then go back to one nap days the next day, no matter how the night is.  So you're using the 2 nap days to catch up and then going back to one nap.  I don't know how often you'll need 2 nap days, but I'd only use them if you're sure he's getting OT. It sounds like he really needs to be on one nap and you may have to push him and put up with the OT to get there.

I think I'd aim for a BT of 6.45 to avoid really early WUs, and do 6.30 if he's had a long day by that point  (over 13.5 hrs) or a bad nap, or 7pm BT if WU is late that day and he's had less than 12 hrs by that point.  It won't always work out exactly that way but basically I'd use 6.30 as an EBT, rather than normal BT.  If you're not going to get more than 10.5 / 11 hrs at night no matter what you do, there's no point in going any earlier cos WU will just be hideous!  You might as well try and get a normal BT where you can  :)



Offline gejun

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Re: long NW need to repair,insomnic now?
« Reply #92 on: September 06, 2015, 06:14:22 am »
thanks you mentioned some situation we may meet ,  the big problem is the  lengh of nap  unconsistent now, I cann't resettle him, once he woke , he just woke, no chance to back to sleep. I had got 45~1h15mins nap at 12:00am three times,  his mood before and  after the nap was good, if I tried to a small cn like 15mins closed to 16:00pm, always got EW, may be OT,but if offer a longer nap at 15:30, I am afraid much ut too.. I also tried to early BT like 18:00, got a longer night, always longer than 11hrs, but ew too. which one is better  you think?  I think at present maybe early BT is better? though ew, but longer night may more restorative to let us getting to nap time? if he knows no chance for cn, he may sleep longer at nap in future days?

Offline LovelyLilyandJack

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Re: long NW need to repair,insomnic now?
« Reply #93 on: September 07, 2015, 21:05:59 pm »
Is your nap length inconsistent after similar A times, or is he still getting the long nws and pushing WU later on some days? I still think a set nap time is the way to go, but it'll probably take a while for him to settle into it.  You could always offer a very short cn as early in the afternoon as you think he'll take it.  Do you think he'll do 15 minutes at 3 / 3.30 if he only does a short nap at 12?

Otherwise I'd stick with it - it can take a few weeks after being fully on one nap for it to lengthen so it may just be something you have to ride out  :-\  I think after a while they do get used to not getting a cn and start sleeping longer for their main nap.

With BT I agree,  an earlier, longer night is probably better at this stage if he'll do it, then you can work on shifting it later if he transitions to one nap ok. I would just base it on the longest night you think he'll do and what time you want WU to be and go from there.



Offline gejun

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Re: long NW need to repair,insomnic now?
« Reply #94 on: September 09, 2015, 09:00:18 am »
nap length inconsistent is because different wu for nw still I think.

yes, I agree setting nap is the only way to do now.
i think he will accept 15 minutes at 3 / 3.30 if he only does a short nap at 12. 
yesterday he napped 2hr at 11:30, BT:18:50.  after a peaceful night till 4:30, he woke and won't sleep again.

how do you cope with this super wu? I remmbered you mentioned J woke 4:00am someday with a late nap.

I think DS may wu super early tomorrow again.

Offline Martini~

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Re: long NW need to repair,insomnic now?
« Reply #95 on: September 09, 2015, 10:09:01 am »
When was the last time you tried short morning nap? Like 10-15min around 9am?
~Marta

Offline gejun

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Re: long NW need to repair,insomnic now?
« Reply #96 on: September 09, 2015, 11:53:56 am »
he woke at 4:30, today the cn was around 8:50am, 19mins, then nap at 12:10pm, 1h 27mins, .  BT 18:30, the day is too long, so I put him down at 18:30. I felt he will woke 4:30~5:00am too tomorrow or wake up late with some nw maybe. do you think 20mins is too much and too early?  I fell it is  contradictory, if offer less sleep, he may cann't reach a reasonable BT, if more sleep, night may shorter, so confused with how to deal with this super wu.
 
at this stage, it seems like if I did a mistake on one day,  things will be off track. we had got some sleep through nearly 10.5h night, wu 5:20~5:30am.but I made some mistake after that, the last mistake is several days ago, he did a UT nap 45mins at 12:00am after a late wu at 6:30(nw) ,  then I offer a cn at 3:30, only 15mins, BT 19:00, but we got a OT wu 5:15am, so I think if next time we get a short nap(less than 1h) , he may accept cn around 3:15(2.5h after nap, I noticed if he did a short nap or an ot nap, he may accept cn soon ), should I let him sleep around 40mins? offer total sleep 1.5h at least to avoid OT?   

if we back to track quickly, back to wu around 5:30 am , we may face two choice,  I don't know which one is reasonable.

one is  nap still at 11:30, maybe we got 1.5h nap,  BT 18:30, expect a 11h night? then expect settled on routine 5:30, 11:30, BT6:30. then shift it half an hour back.

or nap at 12:00, may get a OT nap like 1h10mins(after a short night 10.5h, and 6.5A), he may take a cn at 3:40, offer 20mins, BT 19:00, will still get a 5:30wu, but expect he will nap longer at 12:00,like 1.5hs, BT18:30 too or 19:00?

when we are on one nap, how to shift routine back, if keep same BT as 18:30, could wu become late if only pushing nap. or should put back BT too, he may ot, but it's inevitably , it looks like will be an odd phase he has to cope with both long A before nap and after nap.,

sorry too many quesion, I don't want to make any mistake again.

Offline LovelyLilyandJack

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Re: long NW need to repair,insomnic now?
« Reply #97 on: September 10, 2015, 10:05:00 am »
How about doing as marta suggested and doing a 10-15 minute cn at 9ish if he EWs, with a long nap at 12ish? If an afternoon cn is making him EW the next day then I'd try moving it to the morning.



Offline Martini~

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Re: long NW need to repair,insomnic now?
« Reply #98 on: September 10, 2015, 11:06:51 am »
I would say do 10-15min (i think timing is not crucial here as this nap is tiny) and then follow with a nap at 12:30 for up to 2h.  WDYT?
~Marta

Offline gejun

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Re: long NW need to repair,insomnic now?
« Reply #99 on: September 23, 2015, 06:39:16 am »
hi ladies, DS was unwell and recovery now. a quick question about BT time, we were still on set nap time at 11:30 cos wu was still about early around 5:30, and he was unwell last week,I thought 18:30 is normal BT with a 1.5hrs one nap on a 13hrs day, if nap was short ,and he took a cn like 15mins, then BT 19:00 on a 13.5hrs day.

but on days if nap was less than 1.5hrs. for example a 1h18mins nap, he refused a cn at afternoon, BT 18:00, but still got a 40mins nw at 4:30am, confused with the nw UT or OT.Today wu is 5:40am, with a short nw at 22:30 and 4:00 maybe, so around a normal 10.5hrs night(two nap yesterday), I got a 1h18mins again at 11:30am,.don't know if BT 18:00 or 18:30.

In addition, is there a development at 12~13months? he always accepted nap and BT easily no matter ut or ot before. but he began walking last week, and could understand more language I think,he suddenly began fighting nap and BT time, at nap time, he cried and want to go out of bedroom,  it always took him 10~15mins to aleep at nap time, today is better, only 3mins.  and took 15~20mins at BT time,cried too, if took him out of cot, he would be asleep 20~25mins on another big bed in his room, no cry. it seems like he don't want to sleep, he just want to play, I had thought he was ut or OT at nap or BT, but he fights both of them.

Offline LovelyLilyandJack

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Re: long NW need to repair,insomnic now?
« Reply #100 on: September 24, 2015, 14:31:55 pm »
Yes, there is a developmental leap at 12/13 months, which could also explain the confusing nws. There's also often an A time leap around that age.  How many days a week are you doing 1 nap now, and how many days 2 naps? 



Offline gejun

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Re: long NW need to repair,insomnic now?
« Reply #101 on: September 24, 2015, 23:44:31 pm »
I think a week we did  one nap on three days. like you said, some day he accepted the cn, some day he refused it. the tricky thing now is the length for cn , because of some short nw, wu is around 5:30~6:30am, once the moring nap is 1h15~1h27mins, he took the cn closed to 15:45~16:00pm , so I think 15~20mins are reasonable, but two days ago, after a 1h18mins nap(with a better night), he took the cn at 16:00pm, I allowed only 12mins cos it was so late, he was very odd around 18:00pm, maybe ot for short cn? I am not sure how many day sleep should offer on different length of a day.It looks like 1.5hrs needed for 13hrs day on one nap, but on 13.5hs day, I don't know if 1.5hr is enough, I did got a 10.5hrs sleep through only a short cry at 4:00am,with a 1h15min nap and 20mins cn .

he accept nap easliy yesterday, and he suddenly walked himself , hope the development will end soon.

I found being consistent is key, I made some mistake for someday I was not consistent on nap time, will avoid it in future.

Do you think still setting nap at 11:30am is reasonable now? I think it's equal to at 12:00am if BT is same. If we can be stable on one nap, then pushing nap time may get a later wu?

Offline gejun

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Re: long NW need to repair,insomnic now?
« Reply #102 on: September 25, 2015, 08:44:30 am »
sign, this 16:15pm, he refused cn the third days after a 1h15mins nap at 11:30am. maybe should pushing set nap at 12:00? may got a decent nap ,or ot nap then he may accept a cn. I was lost about BT after a 1h15mins nap at 11:30, yesterday BT18:00, asleep 10mins later with fighting, he still had some short nw or light sleep after 3:00am, but didn't expected me too, wu 5:30 today. it seems like a longer night even with some nw is still more restorive than short night without nw.  it's confused why nap is still short after 6h, and if this nap is ot nap, it's odd he didn't take the cn even APOP, right?

Offline LovelyLilyandJack

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Re: long NW need to repair,insomnic now?
« Reply #103 on: September 25, 2015, 17:07:49 pm »
It depends, J was doing UT naps after 6hrs A at that age.  He's certainly not average, but it's not out of the realms of what's possible. I suspect you need to push through the 2-1 now.  If he's naturally doing 3 X 1 nap days a week, you probably can try pushing his nap to 12 and then only offer a very short cn if he's really struggling.  We couldn't get away with a cn that late in the day at this age - I suspect you just need to go for one nap and reserve cn only to get over OT.  There will be some,  it's inevitable, but at least you'll know he's not UT!

What do you think?



Offline LovelyLilyandJack

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Re: long NW need to repair,insomnic now?
« Reply #104 on: September 25, 2015, 17:10:01 pm »
By the way, I don't know if you've seen this but there's a good 2-1 support thread here:

Support Thread for 2-1 Nap Transition cont'd pt 6

Sometimes it's nice to chat to others going through the same thing as well  :)