7mo 9hour nights, 13hours total: can I extend this?

[Anders45]

I have 7.5 mo (adjusted 6 mo - they were 5 weeks early) twins. They sleep nine hours at night and then are awake. I know I shouldn't complain because nine hours really is good, but I would like to extend their night sleep to at least 11 hours. I've read through some posts, and I would like help tweaking my schedule to assist them with this. Here is their schedule:

(If they fall asleep at 9)
WU 6 nurse
A
Sleep 8(I have pushed this to 8:30 before, but they will fall right asleep at 8, no hassle, if I lay them in their crib at
WU 10 -nurse
A
E 11-12 solids
S 1:30
WU 3:30 nurse
A
CN 5:30 (I try to postpone their CN as long as possible, or not give them one at all, but most days they get really grumpy without it)
E6:30 nursing/solids for fun
Bedtime routine starts at 7:30
Sleep by 8 or9 depending on the catnap
DF 10 (haven't transitioned off this yet, but will soon)

Yesterday we got the boys to bed at 7(I'd extended naps and cut out their catnap and they were so tired they were falling asleep while eating dinner, so we put them down early (yay). But they woke up bright-eyed and bushy tailed at 4:00. They didn't cry like they were hungry, just played until 6, which is when we fed them.

What do you think? Should I be content, or so you guys think I can adjust their sleeping?

[Kellyjs]

I think in order to cut out the CN hun,you'd have to move that first nap out. 6mo are nearing 3hrs now rather than 2. And could be one of the reasons they're waking early.

Another thing to consider is you really are getting some great naps in there. Is the CN an hour? If so you're getting close to 5hrs DT sleep which could be considered too much and hindering their NT sleep. Now some LO's actually do better like this, so it's totally up to you whether we play about and change it up for you. There may be a little OT involved here and there, but tbh you're probably going to be going through the 3-2 soon anyway so I'd expect some anyway.

Wdyt? It's totally up to you.. We can make a plan to start limiting the DT sleep, pushing the A's and hopefully making the NT sleep longer, or you can leave as is until they hit the 3-2 fully?? Xx

[Anders45]

Huh. I guess I didn't add that right, did I? Yeah, I would like to make a plan to cut down DT sleep. So you said I should start by pushing the first nap out? Should I see how long they can make it, or extend fifteen minutes each day? I'll keep you updated. Thank you!

[Kellyjs]

I would look at extending by 15mims, holding for a few days then extending again so as not to cause any OT. They're not taking an UT naps so I would go quite slowly ok?

And don't worry about not adding it up right.. I'm terrible at maths!! 

So what we could do is limit the first nap to 1.5hrs, I think this will help combat the EW too although they are getting enough sleep overall yk? Second nap keep the Abtime as is for now and keep the nap at 2hrs. Then I would try and limit the CN to 30mims and bring BT to 7.15 if you can for the time being? Does that work with family life?

So looking at:

Wu 6 (for now until we can move it along if you want)
A 2hr 15
S 8.15-9.45
A 3hrs 30 (as before)
S 1.15-3.15
A 2hrs
S CN 5.15-5.45
A
BT 7.15 asleep by ideally

By limiting the DT sleep, we really want to start making the day a tad shorter in order to encourage them to take more sleep overall. This will be a short term plan, just to get them adjusted ok? Then we'll look at chopping out the CN xx

[Anders45]

Yeah, that looks great. They slept in today until 7 (well... one woke around 4 again, but we fed the one and put him right back to bed - them sleeping until 7 is quite unusual). So I'll move your schedule up an hour. Now I'm a little messed up. So nap at 2.15 for two hours... they'll wake up at 4.15 ish. Think I should try to forgo the CN and still get them to bed at 7.15? Otherwise I can put them to sleep by 8.15, which is no biggy (7.15 is better, but I can make due with 8.15).

[Kellyjs]

Yay to the good wu! 

Yep, you could look at moving it all along (if I'm not too late, seems we're on different time zones) and skip the CN and see if that helps?

How's it gone today? X

[Anders45]

I did skip the CN yesterday, but we had an unanticipated trip to the store to check out new car seats-the boys have almost reached the height limit on their infant seats... They were OT, but we finally got them to sleep around 8, so not bad.

Baby B woke up at 5 (gave him his paci and he fell back asleep) and the. They woke up at about 6.40 so again, not bad. so I'll just move their schedule up an hour again. I put them down at 9:30 today because they didn't seem tired at all at 9:15, but were showing signs a few minutes later... But they were fairly easy to put to sleep. (Cross our fingers it stays that way!)

They seem to be taking really well to this new schedule. yay!

Also, what do I do about their feeding schedule now? I used to nurse every four hours (when they woke up), but now it will be five hours between with a solid foods snack in between. Is that ok, or should I nurse them right before they go to sleep... Does my question make sense?

[Kellyjs]

Of course it makes sense hun. It does get really difficult to fit everything in around now. I would keep your milk feeds as much as possible as they are more calorie dense than solids and more important in terms of nutrition. (While am at it, well done you for nursing them both!). The last thing you need is for them to be waking at night from hunger.

The problem may be that if you feed too close to nap time they may fall asleep and create a prop (if it's ongoing). Some split the feeds and do a quick top up feed 15mims before the nap and a bigger feed after? Would that be doable? Or even as they're only 6mo adjusted, perhaps move the solid feed to a little later on in the day? Xx

[Anders45]

K. I'll try that. Thank you. I'll check back in tonight about today's happenings. They've been... interesting so far. Thanks again!

[Anders45]

Today didn't go nearly as well. It seemed as though they were UT for the first nap, OT for the second nap and UT for their nap and BT. Here is today's schedule:

WU 7
E
A
S 9.30
WU 10.40 (I think they woke up because they were hungry)
EAEA
S 2.15
WU 3.00 (They were wide awake. I tried for half an hour to put them back to sleep, but they were not having that)
EA
CN 5.30 (I tried to put them to sleep at 5.15, they were grumpy like they were tired, but then I put them in the crib and they just wanted to play. It took about half hour before they fell asleep - normally it takes 5 minutes)
WU 6
EA
BT 8.00 (didn't fall asleep until 9, but they weren't grumpy, just restless).

Let's see how tonight goes... I think I'll see if they can make it until 10 tomorrow. I'll watch their cues to see when they start getting tired, but I wonder if that will help them to nap better.

[Kellyjs]

Some times we have to watch the clock a little at this age as they start showing cues for a variety of reasons like they're overstimulated, or bored, or hungry etc.

Good luck with the extension, keep me posted x

[Anders45]

If they wake up at a different time (so say 6 instead of seven), should I go by the time of day or by how long they've been up? I've been going by how long they've been up, but if I went by the clock would that make their WU time more consistent?

[Kellyjs]

I'd say yes, because I'm a fan of set naps. I feel it makes things more consistent. However we do need to be mindful of the A time because they're so little so they don't get too OT. Not the end of the world, I'd rather OT than UT any day of the week, but an extra hour in the morning may tip them over the edge yk?

Set naps work absolute wonders when they're older as they can handle an extra half hour or hour here and there without too much hassle xx

[Anders45]

K. So today was horrible! The boys were grumpy all day. This is what happened:

WU 6
E 7 - hubby got with them at 6 and they didn't act hungry till 7
A
S - 9
WU 10:30 (before I switched up their routine they slept 2 hours here, but I figure 1.5 is fine too)
E
A
E
S 1:30 (baby b was acting OT 12:30, so I tried to put him down, but he just started to play in his crib for half hour. Didn't act tired at all, so I took him back out and let him play with his brother till 1:30 when they both started to act cranky - it took half hour to help him sleep so they fell asleep about 2:00)
WU 2:30 they were wide awake, no calming back to sleep, but I had them stay in their crib until 3 for my sanity
E
A
E
A
CN 6 -they didn't actually sleep, just played for a while
E
A
Bedtime - 7:30 (actually fell asleep around 9)

Again, today was horrid. They just didn't want to sleep. They were acting tired, but just didn't sleep... What am I doing wrong? Are they compensating for getting more sleep at night by not sleeping during the day? Is it possible that they only need 12 hours of sleep right now? And they get so frustrated between naps, like they are super tired.

[Kellyjs]

I would say definitely OT by the end of the day hun. Technically they've done 11hrs with only 30mims sleep! (10.30am-9pm)

If they refuse their CN next time, I would just get them up, start your BT routine and get them down for BT ASAP.

How's today gone hun? Xx