13 months, STTN but doesn't go to sleep independently, PU/PD help?

[evwright]

Just wanted to say thanks for your advice - it's great to have a different set of eyes on things and just get a bit more confidence that we are heading in the right direction. We are running out of hours in the day so unless we started capping his first nap really short (which has always been the longer one that isn't resisted) I think it is time to transition. Saturday he just took one nap and we did bedtime an hour early, but he slept his usual 10 and a bit hours and woke earlier than usual. Then yesterday he did a nap of 2hr 20min and then slept just over 11 hours last night    We can't remember the last time he had as much total sleep as he has the last 24hrs. I think we will try and put a few 2 nap days in just to prevent OT building up.

We are still rocking to sleep for his nap to make sure he doesn't get OT with the longer wt and did the same for the one nw we have had this week. He didn't want to be picked up at first and was trying desperately to get back to sleep, but just got very upset very quickly, so he went in dady's arms in a couple of minutes instead. He is settling quicker and easier at night with me in the room and no physical reassurance needed, so a few more days I may start sneaking out the door...

May pop back on the thread if we run into problems if that's OK? Thanks again x

[evwright]

Just done a 1hr 10min nap after 5hrs WT - looks like it might be a messy day 

[Haribo2012]

Sometimes it takes a few days to settle when your moving A times, just bring BT forward a little.
I'm glad he's settling better at BT, you could try just going out of the room and saying back in a minute to check on you rather than sneaking out lol.
Your welcome and we are always here to give you support. x

[evwright]

Hi again,

Well we were getting 11hr nights on one nap, but the nap was getting shorter each day, then we had to go away and his whole routine got messed up ending up with less sleep than usual and really unsettled car sleep. Now we are back he has been taking 2hr+ naps the last 3 days, but we are getting NW about 6hrs after BT. One night it was a quick settle, then the second night it took 2hrs - he was quiet and desperately trying to get back to sleep the whole time, but just couldn't quite get there. Last night it took about 30min to get him back down. Do you think it is just build up of OT from being away? He is doing about a 13hr day and has taken his nap anywhere from 4 - 5hrs after wu depending on how tired he seemed (the 4hr was when he fell asleep in his lunch bless him). He has been teething on and off, but it doesn't seem to be the problem.

I realise each LO is different, but what kind of day should we aim for in terms of day length and a times either side of the nap? I get confused because everyone seems to talk in terms of the time of nap and as our day is a good couple or three hours later than most it can be difficult to pull out the info sometimes.

Thanks x

[Haribo2012]

Hi there, it's hard when you've been away but it will come right I'm sure.

We used to do 5 hour A from WU to first nap then if nap was over 1.5 hours a 5.5/6 A to bed I did start pushing nap to mid day at this age to get a more equal A time.

OT NW tend to be easily settled...could be teeth just waking him if he's in lighter sleep.! Do u give meds?

[evwright]

If his teeth are really bothering him we give meds, but he hasn't seemed in discomfort. The night he was up for 2 hours he wasn't grumbly at all or grinding them or anything, nor did he want to play or be messing around, it was just as if he couldn't quite find sleep however hard he tried. Last night was a lot quicker so we'll see what tonight brings x

[Haribo2012]

I guess sometimes we just never know what the NW are about. Sounds like he deals with teething well...my DS was awful lol. x

[evwright]

He's always dealt with teething pretty well, but now does seem to be struggling. We are still having nw. Friday night we had a 10 minute NW that was easily settled (we still APOP all naps and NW). Yesterday he woke at 9.30, had a 2hr nap at 2.40 and then was asleep in arms at 10.30 and into the cot. He woke at 3.45 and wasn't properly back to sleep until after 7 :-(  He will play if allowed, but mainly just lies in arms or cuddles up trying to go back to sleep. He had ibuprofen at 10 so that may have just worn off but he didn't seem in any discomfort. He had a tiny sip of water, but didn't ask to feed at all.

He must be running low on sleep overall, but I expected different behaviour with that. We have been inconsistent with being away and then he was ill so if he has fallen asleep feeding we have put him straight down rather than let him self settle. The progress we made on ss seemed to disappear when we went away and he's a little clingy at BT, but doesn't seem to be full SA.

STTN seems so long ago now. Any ideas? OT/UT, teething, inconsistency? x

[Haribo2012]

Oh hun it's awful when u get long NW, for us that length of NW would be discomfort or UT but that would seem not possible with what you've said.

Is he learning any new skills? x

[evwright]

I can't think that he could be UT as his day length is typically 13hrs and we have had a good number of nw to add in and some shortish naps. We've been sticking to one nap to just try and get some consistency and the days we tried can he just refused even when obviously tired. I don't think he is getting much more ornless sleep than on two naps (apart from thr nights we have long nw). He took a 2.25 nap today so we'll see what tonight brings.

He's already up and walking, but he is getting very vocal so it may be developmental. Typically he slept the best ever as he learned to crawl and walk  I assume we may have to expect a good few weeks of this then? Could be a lot of ebt all round x

[Haribo2012]

It does sound a bit developmental. I'd keep trying EBT if his nap is short but otherwise stick to your 13 hr days.

Sometimes it takes a while for 1 nap to start working well but hopefully it will settle down soon for you. How was the night?

Just so you don't feel alone we've had a week of 5.30am wake ups and the odd NW just because DS has changed rooms at nursery to an older group...he's not upset but must be just be playing on his mind. (We've had 3 months of 6.30am) so feeling tired too! x

[evwright]

We had a bad night unfortunately, he woke at midnight for about 20 minutes, then again at 2.30am and didn't want to go back in his cot so we brought him into our bed for a bit of a restless night all round. Today he only napped for 1.25 hrs. This may sound a stupid question, but for ebt do we just pull forward a set amount on the usual time, give him the expected a time from nap wu (so for today that would be 45 minutes early) or give him a shorter a time than usual - which would be a really ebt? We haven't utilized it much in the past so not quite sure of the best approach. He typically has the longer a after his nap, we are up to 5hrs in the morning, but much longer and he seems to get a bit OT and short nap.

Sorry to hear you've got such early mornings  hope things settle down again quickly at your end. It must be so confusing for them when any change happens x

[Haribo2012]

If we had bad naps and a bad night then I'd keep to a 12 hour day, your nap wasn't too bad so if you feel 30 mins/45 mins early enough then that's fine. If you think he's super OT then you go for a really EBT.
Does he tack on missed day sleep so you know?

I'll live it's a standing joke with hubby and I, when we've had good sleep we always say when's the next rubbish phase due lol. Yes do feel for him as its a lot more grown up and has to be a bit more independent x

[evwright]

We've never managed a good enough ebt to know if he tacks on at night - although when we first switched to one nap he started doing 11hr nights when the naps were usually 1hr30 or less. We only got 2hrs sleep last night before he woke and unusually he was getting upset so we gave him ibuprofen and then I gave him a feed (can't remember the last time we nursed at night) but it still took nearly 4hrs to get him back to sleep. That would have been plenty time for meds to work so I think it must be developmental. So a late start to the day, but we got a fairly good nap of 1hr40min at 4hr30min and should hopefully be able to shoot for a normal BT at 12hrs and hope he starts to catch up on himself.

What does really OT look like at this age? Just want to keep an eye out in case that is where we are headed - not sure how he is still up and running on last night's 8hrs!

They do like to keep us on our toes  x

[Haribo2012]

That's a long time to be awake so I'd defo say meds would've kicked in by then. Long NW for us could be UT but I would doubt that at this age with all that's going on.

All kids deal with OT differently really, my DS would've been very restless at BT legs constantly on the go and lots of tears. With OT NW they are generally easier to settle than UT ones but more upset ones.

They do surprise us, he may we be OT and the short night might make him crash as such and give you a longer night. Any nap transitions can cause a build up of OT so there is some degree of winging it and waiting it out xx