Early Riser

[Sweetemmz]

Hey Everyone..

Hoping I can get some advice. My LO (7 months) just started waking up really early. First it was 7  then it went to 6 and now it's 5:20-5:30. When it was 6 it wasn't too bad because I was able to get him to sleep another hour with me in our bed. But now the 5:20 isn't working. He won't go back to sleep unless I feed him (which i've done the last two nights at 6am) but not always. Idealy I would like him to sleep until 7am but I'll take 6 again at this point.

Here is is routine:
Morning nap: Between 9:30-10 (1.5 hours)
Afternoon nap: 1:30-2pm (1.5 hours)
Bed at 6pm - I know this may seem early and I've tried extending it to 7 to see if that helps and he was always waking up at 6am no matter what. (until the new 5:20 wake up)

I'm thinking that I might try and short 3rd nap and then putting him to bed for the night at 7-7:30... will see if this works. If not, I'm stumped. Any suggestions?? Anything is appreciated

OH I should mention he is on 3 meals a day.

[Kellyjs]

Hi and welcome to the forums 

Do you keep the nap at the same time everyday irrelevant of his EW? It would be good to see how the last few days easy have gone if that's ok? It's great to see what you're striving for, but the good stuff is usually in the finer details 

So has he always managed 12hr nights if you do the earlier BT? When did he drop the CN if I may ask? And how long has he been on the current routine? Sorry for all the questions, it just helps with trying to see the full picture.

Normally EW is a sign that the morning nap needs to be moved later and/or teething. If he's been on the same A time for a while, that might just need tweaking slightly. Difficult I know Shane their waking early, but it is doable. I've btdt!

Has his milk intake dropped recently since moving to 3 solid meals? I would monitor that as milk is the main source of nutrition until they're one and is much more calorie dense than solids. That being said, it doesn't sound like that's the main issue. Is he bf or ff? And DF or nf except the 6am one?

At 7mo I would expect the A time to be closer to 3hrs than 2.5 as your working to. Perhaps just pushing out that first A by 15mins, holding for 3 days might help? It may need an increase again especially as he's not a fan of a longer A to BT like mine  . I personally wouldn't offer a CN as it might be that his sleep needs have dropped and then you end up with a stupid o'clock wu. All in all he is getting a decent amount of sleep in 24 (even with the EW) it just needs adjusting a bit xx

[Sweetemmz]

Hi there,
Thanks for your reply... I'll do my best to answer your questions although I'm not familiar with all the short forms so I may need so help with those.

His morning nap definitely is dependant on is wake time. For example today he was up at 6 and never fell back to sleep, so he was down for a nap by 9:15. but if he falls back to sleep its usually closer to 10. So I'd say usually around 3 hours of AT.

Yes he has always slept the 12 hours except for those few days when he was up at 5:20-30.

Not sure what CN means but he has been on this routine for about 3 +months.

His milk intake (FF) has probably decreased a little since introducing solids, but I don't think by too much. It's still is main source of food but he does enjoy solids.

My first son who is now 3.5 was a great sleeper (still is) and I have tried to implement the same tactics I did with him but have found it to be a little more difficult with another child around.

Any suggestions you have would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks 

[Sweetemmz]

Forgot this....

Yesterdays E.A.S.Y

A 6am
E 6:30 bottle - fell asleep for about 20-30 min)
   8:00 breakfast
S 10:00
A 12:00
E 12:30 bottle
   1:030 lunch
S 2:00
A 4:00
E 4:00 bootle
   5:30 dinner
   6:00bath, pjs, small bottle
In bed at 6:30 asleep by 6:45

Was awake this morning at 5:50

[Kellyjs]

This should help hun.. Took me awhile to get used to them too  Site Acronyms/Abbreviations - What they are, and what they mean.

CN is cat nap. When you were thinking about a 3rd nap?

Ok, you know what, this routine is amazing. I wish we had this at 7mo and I had an EW too! It's rather a lot of sleep you're expecting hun if I'm to be perfectly honest. 12hrs ONS (over night sleep) and 4hrs DT (day time) sleep would put him at the higher end of the sleep needs scale. See here
Typical Amounts of Day and Night Sleep

You're exactly getting a good 11hrs out of him atm, would you rather switch up the routine and keep the long naps and accept the 11hrs ONS (which would move BT later and eventually wu later) or would you prefer to cut the naps back a bit to get the 12hrs ONS back? Totally up to you hun xx

[Sweetemmz]

Thanks Kelly for your kind words but I should admit that this particular day was a really good day, he had his long naps etc.. don't get me wrong I know he does sleep really well (I do know quite a few who have some real serious sleep issues) and I don't mean to sound like I'm not grateful for what I have. But I think it may not be so much the amount of hours he sleeps, but more of when he sleeps them. I tried doing a later bed time to see if he sleeps later but the latest he's up is 6am even if he went to bed at 7 or 8, so I figured if he'll sleep until 6 no matter what I might as well start him at 6 if it works. I think I'll have to start going to bed much earlier (obviously this is my issue not his...lol), unless I can change things up somehow.

Here is todays E.A.S.Y so far...

A 5:30am
E 6:00 bottle - fell asleep for another 20-30 min)
   8:00 breakfast
S 10:00
A 11:30
E 12:00 bottle
   1:00 lunch
S 2:15
A 3:40
Now current time and my and my plan is:
E 4:-4:15 bottle
   5:00 dinner
   6:00bath, pjs, small bottle
In bed by 6:30 and hopefully asleep by 6:45-7pm

So as you can see his naps aren't always as long so I don't think I really want to shorten them. I did try and extend his morning awake time, so maybe that will help. The 2 days before this were all over the place because we were out and about and in and out of the car. 
Do you think on a day like today a CN would work and then try for a later BT like 8?

Appreciate all your suggestions and help..

Thanks,
Emma

[Kellyjs]

I can see what you mean hun definitely.

I would think a CN might only make things worse for you now hun. He is generally getting a good amount of sleep, I just think we need to space it better for you throughout the day.

He does tend to fall back to sleep after that bottle doesn't he? How would you feel about feeding him straight away on an early wu and see if that gets him to go back to sleep then? Hopefully then you can start your day at a more reasonable time? It should only be for the short term I would think, we wouldn't want to create a habit, but I'm wondering if that quick CN there first think then the nice long nap at 10am is reinforcing the EW yk?

I noticed you said he has a small bottle befor BT. Is there anyway he'd take more at that feed as you don't do a dreamfeed that I can see? Have you noticed his milk intake drop considerably since solids? The reason I ask is I'm think he might be waking at 5am ish from hunger?

Then, if he does manage to get back off to sleep in the early hours, perhaps we can push that first A just a little, perhaps by 15mims? The reason I'm thinking that is because he's doing really well on being up from 5.30, with just a 20mins CN and then lasting to 10am which means he's probably capable of more Atime. Wdyt? Worth a go for a couple of days? Xx

[Sweetemmz]

Hi Kelly,
So things have totally turned upside down. My EASY routine is longer working. The last few mornings he's been up at 4:30/5:00 or 5:30. The two earlier EW I ended up feeding him out of desperation to go back to sleep for a bit. And then last night he was in bed by 7 and woke up at 11pm. Had to feed him. I thought he would sleep longer as a result but was up at 5:30. Fed him at 6 and he fell asleep for maybe 15-20 min.
Yesterday's EASY ROUTINE:
A 5am - bottle
S 5:15-6:50
E 7am - bottle
A 8am - solids
S 10-11:30
E 12 bottle
   1:30 solids
S 2-3:30
E 4 bottle
   5:30 solids
A 6:15 bath
    6:30 bottle
     6:45 bed and asleep by 7

Then awake at 11 - bottle
          Awake at 5
                         6 bottle

Your thoughts would be much appreciated


Thanks
Emma

[Sweetemmz]

I should also mention that yesterday's naps were pretty good compared to the few days before. He is pretty consistent with his morning nap but the afternoon one has been pretty short lately around 40-45 min.

[Kellyjs]

I think you need to push the A times hun look here Average A times- BOOKMARK ME!

Definitely that second A as he's doing quite a long A after that short I say nap although it should Be an extension of the night sleep in the morning.

Have you noticed him being on the lower end of the sleep needs scale generally before?

Also I would try and not feed at night, I know we do everything we can to get them back to sleep but tbh this might make a rod for your back in the long run if he's fed at every NW yk? Not saying you've done anything wrong at all hun, but I don't want you to end up with a prop which then doesn't help your issue further down the line. I would still feed at that morning wu though just to get him through for the time being. We've checked his milk intake is ok haven't we? So I'm sure feeding at night won't be necessary, we just need to tweak something in the day time I would think. Did you also check for teeth?

If that afternoon nap is tending to be on the short side perhaps we extend that second A by 15mims for now, wdyt? Xx