bedtime shenanigans - help!

[oliversmommy]

DS sleeps in a toddler bed at home.  2 wks ago we went on vacation for 4 days and while on vacation, DS began getting OOB quite frequently at BT.  I finally had to lay in his room to keep him in there until he fell asleep.  Now that we are home, he is still getting OOB at BT.  Like 20+ times in 45 min.  We are going through the "lovely" 1-0 transition so that isn't helping the situation.  We walk him back to bed silently each time he gets up, but he still seems to think it's a game.  Any ideas/suggestions on how to curtail this behavior? 

DS is 3 yrs 10 mos old BTW.

TIA! 

[cath~]

what do his days look like in terms of WU, nap time, BT?

Whenever we get BT shenanigans it's because she's UT at BT.  I know it's tricky with the 1-0 though judging when to do BT.

Have you done any NNDs (no nap days) yet?  Does he settle any quicker then?  It might be time to think about ditching the nap completely.

[oliversmommy]

Cath thanks for your reply! 

WU is around 7 am, on NNDs BT is 8 pm and he falls asleep pretty quickly.

He only naps at home in the car, and if he falls asleep in the car then I cap his car naps to 30 min and move BT back by 30 min.

I would LOVE to ditch the nap completely and I think he's ready however he attends preschool where the children are required to lay down on cots in a darkened room for at least 30 min, and of course he falls asleep every time.  He only attends 2 days/week over the summer, but next week I'll be going back to work and he'll be there 5 days/week.  I've asked them to start waking him after 30 min (they are going to try it today for the first time) so we'll see how that goes.

I'm not sure how long he naps on preschool days (I think it's at least an hour) - on those days BT is 9 and DS doesn't fall asleep until 9:45-10 pm.  And wakes up at the same time, so has a short night, is tired the next day, and needs a nap.     I feel like we can't get out of this cycle of short nights then naps to make up for the lost sleep.  I'm really worried he won't ditch the nap at preschool on his own, and that his falling asleep at night will just get later and later! 

[cath~]

Argh - lots of people have had trouble with daycare naps at this age.  It can be a total PITA.

I'd definitely insist (if you can) that they wake him at 30 mins.  Or, would they be amenable (for example), to letting him take a book to read quietly instead?  Or some paper for drawing? Could that keep him awake?

If it helps, you could try explaining to them that the nap robs more from his night sleep than he gains from the nap, so because of the nap he's getting less sleep overall (this is usually what happens - is it the case for you too?).

Failing that, and accepting that it will mean he has a late BT on days when he's napped, would he be happy to read/look at books or listen to audio stories, for example, until he decides he's ready to nod off?  Rather than you having to deal with lots of UT shenanigans.  DYT that could help?

WRT to the car naps, when they happen I'd be inclined to keep them as short as possible (i.e. wake him as soon as you can) or not let them happen at all (if possible) so he gets used to not sleeping during the day.  It might help with him not sleeping at preschool.

[oliversmommy]

Thanks again for your post - great suggestions! 

I don't think DS's preschool will keep him awake/off the cot at naptime, but they did agree to wake him after 30 min (and did so yesterday).  Today we had a NND, BT was 8 pm, and DS has been getting up pretty much every min since then (it's 8:45 right now).  Before we went on vacation, he got up 1-2 times at most before falling asleep on NNDs, so I'm starting to wonder if this could be developmental.

The audio books are a good idea.  We might have to try that tomorrow night.

Also good idea about shortening/eliminating the car naps.

Okay, so the shenanigans went on until 9 pm - I finally asked DS what he needed to stay in his bed, and he asked me to stay in his room.  So I laid next to his bed and he fell asleep at 9:15.  I'm afraid that now he'll be tired tomorrow at preschool and they'll have trouble waking him from his nap and then he'll be crabby and they'll question why I'm capping his naps.

I'm just really frustrated - this transition is taking FOREVER!  And he CAN'T be falling asleep late when I go back to work next week - I NEED my downtime in the evenings.  Maybe audio books is the way to go - I'm definitely not laying in his room every night until he falls asleep!

[cath~]

((Hugs)) that sounds tough

Dyt he has some SA? Could he be worried about your return to work? Anything else could be bothering him?

Or dyt maybe the coming out has become a habit, so he does it even when he is tired enough to sleep?

I know some people have used gates on their lo's bedrooms to keep them in.. 

Sorry, not much advice I'm afraid.  How was last night?

[oliversmommy]

SA did cross my mind - he started a new preschool a couple of months ago (previous one closed) and he's still adjusting.  Still upset at drop offs in the mornings.  Also had a new babysitter last weekend for a couple of hours and he was NOT happy about being left with her.

Last night was a little better.  We had about 30 min of him coming out of his room every 30 sec or so - he was running down the hall laughing and then refusing to be walked back to bed (dropping to the floor) - I think it's turned into a game for him.  So I stood RIGHT outside his door and walked him straight back to bed as soon as he opened it and I think he eventually got bored.  I think I'm going to try that again tonight. 

I did think about a gate too, but I'm sure he would climb right over it . . .

Thanks again for your suggestions!  I'll keep you posted on our progress!

[cath~]

Yes, do keep posting.

I know others on here have had success with waiting right outside the door so hope it does the trick for you too

I'll ask around if anyone else has any other thoughts on this they can offer

[weaver]

I didn't have this but LO1 stayed in his cot til well past 3, and LO2 is 3 and is still in a cot.  So they can't get out!  (Evil laugh )

Sounds like there have been a lot of changes in recent weeks, so perhaps look at how much stimulation he's getting in the 90 minutes before BT, and see if you can really work on filling his mama cup in that time.  That'll help with the emotional side of it. 

There may be an element of napping in there, but it really sounds to me like he's likely to be OS by then and needing help to get grounded. 

[Buntybear]

Agree with staying outside his door. This will help him, as you say, get bored with the getting up but also provide him with that reassurance that you are still there if it is a bit of SA.

good luck x

[oliversmommy]

Thanks ladies for your posts! 

Anne - we kept DS in a crib until about 4-5 mos ago - kept him in there as long as we could!  Sure miss it now! 

That's a good idea to look at his evenings and keep them low-key/full of mommy time.  Tried to do that the past few nights (except one night when we went to my parent's for dinner) and will continue to do so this week, especially now that he will be in preschool for a longer day and for the entire week.

The behavior has continued since I last posted - I'm continuing to wait outside his door and walk him back to bed when he attempts to leave the room until he falls asleep.  Two of the last 3 nights it took around 30 min, one night only 15 min.  He's been getting less sleep overall and I'm not sure if his sleep needs are decreasing or if it's due to whatever he is going through at the moment.  Yesterday was a NND and he was clearly tired at BT but getting up constantly, so I laid next to his bed until he fell asleep.  I wanted him as rested as possible for today, his first day of preschool this week, because his preschool teachers tell me he is "hard to wake up" at nap time and I don't want him catching up on sleep then.

I'm considering lying next to his bed as needed for the next week or two if this behavior continues, as I want him to get lots of ONS so he doesn't need the naps at preschool.  I'm worried that I'm reinforcing the getting up behavior and I don't want to become a prop, but I figure I can pull back once he's feeling more settled into the new routine.  What do you think??? 

[weaver]

When LO1 started kindy (age 4) I lay down on his bed with him every night to help him unwind and really get to sleep.  He is sensitive to stimulation and was pretty wound up even after a short day and a very laid back atmosphere. It worked a treat and really helped him sleep.  No difficulty changing back to not laying with him. They're all individuals mind you but you won't still be there when he's 20!

[cath~]

I agree with PP

If it's what you think he needs ATM and it helps ( doesn't become a game with you there for ages iyswim) then go for it. You can always change things in the future (eg with GW) if / when you or he are/is ready for it.

The only thing to watch out for perhaps is if he starts waking more at night and needing you to resettle but at this age it's prob less likely than with a baby or young toddler.  If that does happen though then you can decide what to do then.

[oliversmommy]

Anne - thanks for posting - helps to know that it worked for your DS and that it was easy for him to go back to being an IS. 

Last night after BT, DS got up about 10x in 15 min - I stood by his door the whole time.  Then all was quiet and I *thought* he was asleep, but he got up again 15 min later.  After a few more tries he finally fell asleep.  So I didn't have to stay in his room w/ him, although I wonder if I did, if he might have fallen asleep faster. 

I feel like we are just stuck in this cycle of short nights/daytime naps and I'm not sure we'll get out of it until DS drops the nap completely, as his preschool won't keep him up during naptime.  (all children have to lie down on a cot for at least 30 min.)  He's sleeping 30-60 min during nap (I keep getting told he is hard to wake up).  I'm thinking I might have to try letting him listen to audio books/music/read in bed before he falls asleep at night, but I'm afraid even with that he will still be getting up out of bed constantly until he falls asleep. 

Cathn - he does wake at night - not every night but most nights - this has been happening for months now.  Anywhere from 1-3 times although a couple of nights it was more than that.  He wakes up, gets up and comes in our room, we walk him back to bed and he goes back to sleep.  It wasn't a problem over the summer but now that we are all back at preschool/work and need our sleep, it's more disruptive.  But I have no idea how to address it. 

Thanks ladies for all of your help and support!

[cath~]

(((Hugs))) it's really tricky with the nap giving short nights. A vicious cycle.

IIWM I'd be inclined, from what you said, to stay outside his door and not go in. It sounds like he's getting up a bit less? And with the NWs I'd be wary about him needing more during the night too if you stay with him at
BT.

Poss not what you want to hear, but the NWs might just be a developmental phase and you'll just have to wait for them to pass..