Author Topic: How long does lo's nap schedule last before it changes again?  (Read 15710 times)

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Offline centrestage88

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Re: How long does lo's nap schedule last before it changes again?
« Reply #30 on: August 29, 2015, 07:48:32 am »
U are right Creations, I should stick to his routine. He's happy with it and isnt a major change. =)

I was hoping to stick to 730pm BT and 730 WU.
Daddy usually only spends time with him on weekends. He works late and in the mornings just a quick peck/cuddle before he's off to work. I try to let OH catch up on his sleep during the weekends so if lo wakes up later too, dad can take him out longer before his first nap. But 30 mins isnt much of an issue ( I guess its my anxiety and my mind catastrophizing), and soon LO's A times will increase too.

He woke up later this morning. ( 715 am),but is sleeping funny today. ( 1030-1130am ( crying),  230- 340(happily playing quietly in his cot now..hopefully he will go back to zzz ) But the weather is hot and there is construction. So I shall not panic and just take it as a one off aberration. Hopefully he will be back on track tomorrow!

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Re: How long does lo's nap schedule last before it changes again?
« Reply #31 on: August 29, 2015, 07:54:33 am »
So I shall not panic
:) A healthy attitude :)
We all have off days, adults and babies too.
x


Offline centrestage88

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Re: How long does lo's nap schedule last before it changes again?
« Reply #32 on: September 22, 2015, 05:05:49 am »
I think lo's schedule needs tweaking again.
He's a week shy of 7months.
I have been putting him on 2 set naps a day ( not strictly set naps, but about there), with an average A time of 3hrs.
He probably naps less than what I think he does as I dont really monitor what time he goes down to nap and wakes up ( as he happily plays around in the cot for a while by himself before napping and after waking up).  But I pick him up at fixed times and he is usually awake by then and happy. He never cried.
The past few days it has been taking him longer to fall asleep during naps.
Yesterday he resisted his afternoon nap. He started crying after 15 minutes.
This morning he resisted his morning nap.  I watched the video monitor and played happily on his own for 15 minutes, then cried for another 15 minutes before sleeping.

I don't know what time he wakes up in the morning as he is a happy morning bird. I pick him up at 730am, but there are times when I think he probably is awake anytime from 645am.

How should I proceed from her? Seems like his A times is increasing. I would like to keep his bedtime and wake up time. But how do I fit in 2 naps a day?

Usually:
WU:730am ( he does wake up earlier at times)
N: 1030am- 1230pm ( I'm guessing)
N: 330pm -430pm (I wake him up at 430pm if he's not awake, but usually he wakes up at 430pm.
S: 730pm
one night feed

two days ago:
WU: 750am (I was awake before him)
N: 1030am ( putdown)-1230pm (pick up)
N:330pm ( putdown)-430pm ( woke up on his own)
S:730am
1 night feed

yesterday:
WU: 750am
N:11am ( putdown)-1230pm (pick up. he was awake by then)
N: 330pm ( he started crying at 350pm so I picked him up. I don't know if he slept at all or not)
S: 720pm ( he was very very tired)
1 night feed

Today:
WU: 8am
N: 11am ( putdown, but he started crying at 1115am and only went to sleep at 1140am) -1250pm

Now I don't know what time to put him down for his next nap.
 
Help please. =)

Offline centrestage88

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Re: How long does lo's nap schedule last before it changes again?
« Reply #33 on: September 22, 2015, 07:38:02 am »
Put baby down at 330pm. He was happy. started crying 5 minutes later.
Left him crying. It was a loud and angry cry, interspersed by moments of silent. He finally slept at 348pm. =(

Woke up 425pm happy. =)

Bedtime 730pm.

So today:
WU: 8am
N: 1140-1250pm ( I put him down at 11am happy. started crying at 1115am and finally went to bed at 1140am. woke up happy)
N: 348-425pm ( I put him down 330pm happy. started crying at 335pm. escalated to loud angry cries with intermittent pauses. finally slept at 348pm. woke up happy)
S: 730pm ( went to bed happy)
« Last Edit: September 22, 2015, 11:38:46 am by centrestage88 »

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Re: How long does lo's nap schedule last before it changes again?
« Reply #34 on: September 22, 2015, 11:43:56 am »
Hi there.
I don't have time to look through your EASY times in depth right now, I'd need to have a proper look and a think before replying properly, but I wanted to stop by with a hug and a bit of quick advice for the time being xx

If he is crying go to him. Use your regular soothing method, shush/pat or adapted, or a hand on him and your key phrase, so that he knows you are with him.  I would go to him as soon as the escalating begins.
If necessary pick him up to sooth him and put him back down when he is calm.
If he will not calm take him out of the room and try WD and nap again 15 mins later.

If you feel an increase of A time is needed then increase by 15 mins right away for today/tomorrow and we can sort out a steady routine from there. OK?

Remember babies do cry, it's unrealistic to have an expectation of no crying, but equally when he cries he is ready for your support and company.  Be with him through his struggles but try not to be drawn into joining him in his frustration or sadness.  It is possible to be there with him but be emotionally distanced at the same time although it takes a bit of practise.

I'll try to come back this evening to have a proper look x


Offline centrestage88

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Re: How long does lo's nap schedule last before it changes again?
« Reply #35 on: September 22, 2015, 14:34:19 pm »
Dear Creations

I don't have a soothing method. Since 4 odd months, lo has gone down for his naps with nary a whimper. I am so surprised and alarmed that he is crying at naptimes now.
He has just started to go on his knees and rocking. Is this a development milestone? Would it be a factor in why he is suddenly crying and resisting naps?

I'm confused as when to go pick him up/soothe him.  I read that some babies need to cry before sleeping. ( is that called a mantra cry?) When is a cry a going to sleep cry? If I were to pick him up if it was a going to sleep cry, wouldn't I be disturbing his self-settling skills?
But my lo has never needed to cry before sleeping so his cries now should be due to a different reason right?


Will try to put him down 15 minutes for his naptimes tomorrow.

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Re: How long does lo's nap schedule last before it changes again?
« Reply #36 on: September 22, 2015, 19:01:05 pm »
I don't have a soothing method
Then it's time to get one :)
I know you have an angel baby who tends to coo and smile before sleep and coo again when he wakes, playing in his cot too until you get to him. The thing is through his baby months, his toddler years and his entire childhood (and let's face it, his adult hood too) you will be called upon to sooth and support him, that's what we do, when there is teething, a bumped head, a cold virus, when some other toddler pushes him over or takes his toy you are the one who will ease his upset.  You are already a great source of comfort and love to him, you are his world, but perhaps you still feel unsure how to help him when he calls.
So let's find something you are comfortable with.
Think about times now when he gets upset, what do you do? Pick him up, speak to him, rub his back, hold his hand?  These can all be the basis of your soothing method so if something comes to mind let me know and we can incorporate that in to your sleep soothing method. OK?
A simple and effective idea is that you produce a mantra of your own, a key phrase, something that is repeated over and over in a pleasant and reassuring voice, eg "Everything is ok. I'm here. Go to sleep."  When you repeat this he hears you, and he can focus on this to help him calm and feel drowsy.
Along with this you might put a firm hand on him so he can feel you. You might pat, rub or slightly rock with this hand so he can feel you.
What do you think?

WRT the mantra cry. Some babies do mantra before sleep, it is a repetitive sound which does not escalate.  Some babies have a sad sounding mantra, I remember my LOs mantra changing when our routine went a bit off track, he sounded sad rather than meditative, it never escalated and remained repetitive.
From what you describe, if your LO has not been using a mantra cry, and his cry was escalating it sounds like an 'I need you' cry, to which you respond immediately. Go in, use your key phrase straight away if you don't know what else to say/do.  I generally started responding before I even got to DS's room "I'm coming" and "I'm here, Mummy's here" when I got there. LOs are listening out for you all the time.
If he settles down as soon as you are there you can leave again.  Mine did not like me to stay in the room when he went to sleep so I would say "I'll go now so you can sleep properly, call if you need me" and leave the room.  If her started to cry out for me again I went back.  This is a form of WI/WO there is no time limit to how long you stay with LO and it does not mean you cannot combine with other methods of soothing, it just means when he is calm or drowsy you leave so he can nod off.

Going onto his knees is certainly a milestone, developmental leaps often disturb sleep, it's just something you have to go through I'm afraid.  The developmental aspect may well be contributing to his crying before naps but lets also look again at his routine.

OK, looks like he is waking later in the morning a few days.  This is resulting in his A time being shorter when you put down at the set nap time you can either set his morning WU time at 7.30 to regulate the day or move his set nap time later. With a regulated WU you may find the set naps settle back down or you may find he needs a small shift in the routine as well (impossible to know without trying).
How do you feel about regulating WU time, I get the impression you are more comfortable with the days being predictable and this is one way to make it so.  Regulating at 7.30 means either you go in and wake him or if you like you could try setting a lamp on a timer switch to come on at 7.30 so he wakes with the light.

He may still need that extra 15 mins on the A time but honestly it is hard to tell because his morning WU has moved later.
It seems he is still going to sleep well at 7.30pm is that right?

Let me know your thoughts.  Meanwhile if he wakes late again before you have a chance to wake him or if you are undecided about regulating WU then go ahead and add that 15 mins onto his A time on both naps to get you through the interim days.


Offline centrestage88

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Re: How long does lo's nap schedule last before it changes again?
« Reply #37 on: September 24, 2015, 03:50:10 am »
Dear creations

Thanks for the really helpful advice and tips.
I think that I will try using a repetitive sentence: mummy's here. It's okay. Go to sleep. Mummy loves you. And stroke his head or pat his bum. And call to him as I am going up into his room.

As you mentioned, it's hard to be there for him while staying emotionally distant. I usually get so worked up and anxious along with him.  practise Practise.

I'm okay with him waking up at 8am. ( not any later though.) But am thinking it may be better to keep to a fixed 730am WU. naps are somewhat set but I adjust slightly if he wakes up later. I was keeping to 3hr A times.

Am still confused as to where to put his naps and how long he should be napping for. He seems to be able to take even longer A times.

Yesterday was better but still I don't think I've gotten his A times right. I added 15 minutes to reach a 3hr 15 mins A time. He cried still for about naps for about 10mins but it was a repetitive constant cry with long pauses ini between and it did not escalate. I didn't go in to soothe him. I woke him up at 445pm after his second nap.

Yesterday
Wu:8am
N :1125-1230pm ( I put him down at 1115am.) ( quiet for 5 mins then cried)
N: 4-445pm (put down 345pm. Quiet for 5 mins then cried intermittentlyfor 10mins. I woke him up 445pm)
S:730pm (slept 740pm happy)
Total day nap: 1hr 50mins

Today, I tried to look for his tired cues.
nap 1: At 3hrs 50 mins A time, he was still happy but I thought that I better put him to nap. He rolled happily for 2 mins then slept.
nap2: 3 hrs A time ( he didnt seem tired at all, but if I didnt put him down by then, he would not last till his 730pm bedtime)

Wu:725am
N:1118 am-1pm ( put him down 1115am. Woke him up at 1pm so that he can take Another nap)
N: 4:05pm-445pm ( put down at 4pm. woke him up at 445pm)

Isn't he too young for a 3hr 50 min A time? How do I fit in two naps yet keep to a 730pm bedtime? Do I cap both naps? Where to put in the 2 naps? I normally just cap the second nap, but if I did not wake him up at 1pm during his first nap, I would not be able to fit 2 naps in for the day.




« Last Edit: September 24, 2015, 09:12:23 am by centrestage88 »

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Re: How long does lo's nap schedule last before it changes again?
« Reply #38 on: September 24, 2015, 12:13:24 pm »
Without looking back I seem to remember your LO handles 3hrs very well at a younger age than guidance so at 7 months now I think we can be looking at around 3hr 45.  A times do not need to be the same length throughout the day, we are going to look for a routine with one good restorative nap (1.5-2hr) and one CN.

OK here's a possible routine for set naps with a 3hr 45 A time, it's very similar to what you did by yourself :)

WU 7.30
E
A 3hr 45
S 11.15 - 12.45 (1.5hr sleep)
E
A 3hr
S 3.45 - 4.30 (45 min CN)
E
A 3hr
E
BT 7.30

Now this does mean capping both naps and waking LO at 7.30. I'd prefer to give LO a chance somewhere to regulate his own sleep (ie one place where he is not woken) but this could mean moving BT later which I know you don't really want.  Lets see on this routine if he can manage to go to sleep and wake relatively happily.  If not we can look again.
For instance we could look at leaving the first nap at 2hrs if this is what he really needs for his first nap, and cap the second nap back further, or move BT a little later for a time (not for ever, when that second nap is dropped he will go to bed early).
I suspect with your LO he is going to drop to one nap quite early.

What do you think?
If you like this routine see how it goes and let me know.


Offline centrestage88

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Re: How long does lo's nap schedule last before it changes again?
« Reply #39 on: September 24, 2015, 15:27:14 pm »
Dear Creations,
thanks for the suggested plan!=)
Lo looks so contented when he's in slumberland. I think I should try to be flexible and let BT be pushed back if its best for lo's sleep regulation.
Could you help advise on a routine in which I wont cap his first nap? A later BT is okay with me.
I will keep to a 730am WU.

Today went like this:
WU:725am
N:1118-1pm ( woke him up)
N:405pm-445pm ( I woke him up)
BT: 735pm ( put down 730pm)

He was a happy lark today, but I didn't enjoy waking him up for both naps. ( though he still was happy despite being woken up)

Is he reaching 2-1 nap transition soon? Gosh, my lo is growing up fast!


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Re: How long does lo's nap schedule last before it changes again?
« Reply #40 on: September 24, 2015, 17:38:09 pm »
The 2-1 transition usually doesn’t happen for some time yet. Even the early signs of it (which is not the nap drop itself but just the need for a shift in routine) doesn't usually happen until more like 10 months and many keep the 2 naps for moths beyond this.  Mine moved to 1 nap at 11.5/12 months which is considered early.  That said, we do need to accept LOs individuality and there are (very few) who go to 1 nap particularly early.  We'll see :)

OK if you're happy to shift BT then I'd prob let him take a 2hr first nap as I think he will wake more naturally at 2hrs.

WU 7.30
A 3hr 45
S 11.15 - 1.15 (hopefully this will be uncapped)
A 3hr
S 4.15 - 5.00 (capped)
A 3hr
BT 8pm

I also want to mention he may, possibly, be happy with a shorter last A time of 2.5hr and bed at 7.30. It's just a possibility.  One of the reasons I say this is because he was starting to wake later in the morning indicating he can do, and perhaps likes a longer night.
He may also be happy to do just a 30 min CN rather than 45 mins.
What do you think about either of these? Do you get a feeling he would like/accept one or the other or do you feel unsure?
It's fine not to know by the way it's just that if you have a feeling on either we can use that information to help tweak the routine if needed.

I'm so glad he was happy today. So stay with this routine a while see if he continues to be ok on it or if he begins to cry/resist or seem too tired during A etc.  let me know how it goes xx


Offline centrestage88

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Re: How long does lo's nap schedule last before it changes again?
« Reply #41 on: September 25, 2015, 02:10:13 am »
Thanks for the schedule creations!
Your lo moved early to 1 nap!

Recently, lo does seem to be doing longer nights. I had to wake him up at 730am today.
He may be happy with a 30 mins cat nap though I havent tried it on him yet. I don't mind giving it a shot.

Will try your suggested schedule today. I'm a bit apprehensive about putting him down at 8pm ( simply for the reason that I'm such a stickler for routine, but I shall try to be flexible =))

I need some advice too on where to fit in his milk feeds now that his naps are changing, and with the introduction of solids. Will post on the breastfeeding forum.

Have a lovely day with your family!


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Re: How long does lo's nap schedule last before it changes again?
« Reply #42 on: September 25, 2015, 08:28:16 am »
Not sure what to make of lo's reaction to the naps today. He went down pretty easy for nap 1, but resisted nap 2 ( 10 minutes of intermittent whining, started very soon after I put him down. Normally he plays happily in the cot for about 5 mins before protesting or crying)

WU: 730am ( I woke him up)
Nap 1: 1120- 110pm ( put down 1115am. he woke up naturally)
nap 2: 420pm ( put down 410pm, followed by 10 mins intermittent whining)
he's zzzz now.


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Re: How long does lo's nap schedule last before it changes again?
« Reply #43 on: September 25, 2015, 12:53:29 pm »
OK, I don't want to keep changing things for you as I know it's very unsettling but I wonder if the following routine might be worth a shot.
it's not what I'd think of as a regular routine really with the last A time being very short but I'm aware how short my LO liked the last A time and I'm just thinking that your DS has been extending his night so perhaps he is particularly tired by the end of the day and just likes to get to bed?
In this sample the second A increases to see if he can go down happily, nice and tired instead of reluctant for that second nap but the nap is capped at 30 mins which is pretty short but then he only has to stay awake a short A before getting to bed for the night, which is also at 7.30 which seems to suit you both.

WU 7.30
A 3hr 45
S 11.15 - 1.15 (uncapped 2hrs)
A 3hr 30
S 4.45 - 5.15 (capped)
A 2hr 15
BT 7.30

I'm a bit apprehensive about putting him down at 8pm ( simply for the reason that I'm such a stickler for routine, but I shall try to be flexible
So it could be that we can try to continue at 7.30 for a while if you cap that CN shorter, ok? I am also aware he likes his night sleep as he was extending it, and really it would be nice for him if we don't cut into that night sleep, it's just that we do need to squeeze 2 naps in.  I will say though, at some point it is likely you will need to accept a different BT for a little while, maybe earlier rather than later.  Changing BT was always a bit of a struggle for me too, I found it daunting to have LO up an extra 30 mins or to try to fit in everything before bed if it was 30 mins earlier, either way I didn't like the idea...but you do get into the new routine though and then it starts to feel normal again.

Not sure what time it is where you are now, but if it's not too late for BT try the 7.30 as usual and see how it goes.


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Re: How long does lo's nap schedule last before it changes again?
« Reply #44 on: September 25, 2015, 14:46:38 pm »
Dear Creations
I capped his last nap.
I did somewhat of a compromise for bedtime. 745pm instead of 8pm. With a last A time of 2 hrs 45 mins. He went to bed pretty happy.
So the day went like this:
WU:730 ( I woke him up)
A 3hrs 50 mins
Nap: 1120-110 pm ( uncapped) ( put down 1115am)
A 3hrs 10mins
Nap: 420 -5pm (put down 410pm. whined for 10mins. woke him up 5pm but he was happy)
A 2hrs 45 mins
bedtime: 745pm ( put down 740pm)

Thanks for the new routine.
Will try the new routine tomorrow, and cap his second nap at 30mins.
I'm a bit worried of putting him down at 730pm after a 2 hrs 15 mins A time.(so worried that he will resist bedtime as I wouldnt know how to deal with it.)
 I feel less worried with a 745pm bedtime though. It's a slight flexibility that I can deal with somewhat.

Babies schedules are always changing. I have to learn to adapt to change.  I will definitely need this skill as lo grows old of babyhood ( and to live life!) Am trying. =)

Really appreciate your help creations!
« Last Edit: September 25, 2015, 15:11:20 pm by centrestage88 »