How long does lo's nap schedule last before it changes again?

[creations]

I'm a bit worried of putting him down at 730pm after a 2 hrs 15 mins A time.(so worried that he will resist bedtime as I wouldnt know how to deal with it.)

OK so I would try the 7.30pm, it's just a hunch I have that he may go for it because he's been trying to extend his night so he may be willing to go to sleep.  If he cries and shows he isn't ready you can get him up, spend 15 mins with him (sing a song, read him a book, walk around the house looking at things together, look out of the window and talk about what you see) and then go back into his room to do your usual put down for bed again.  This isn't about forcing him to sleep at 7.30 it's about inviting him, if he says "no thanks" then do the additional 15 mins A time and try again.
So the 2 options for BT:
- try 7.30pm if he sleeps, fine, if he resists do another 15 min A out of the room then go back in for put down at 7.45
or
- go directly for 7.45 as you feel comfortable with this
It is up to you, see what feels right and if it works continue with it

[centrestage88]

Dear creations,
Your hunch was on the ball. he went to bed happily at 730pm. It does seem like he is liking longer nights. I had to wake him up at 730am this morning.
He went to bed without crying for both naps, but it took quite a while to zz for nap 2. Nap 2 was only 20 mins long but he was happy when I woke him up. ( though it took him a while to wake up)

Today:
WU: 730am ( I woke him up)
Nap 1: 1115am-115pm ( uncapped)
Nap2: 455-515pm (capped)( I put him down at 440pm. He rolled, played by himself, and finally slept 15 mins later.)
Bedtime:730pm

Thanks for putting it so correctly: I'm inviting him to sleep, not forcing him.
And thanks for Tips on what to do when he doesn't want to sleep. I will feel less 'helpless' during the times when he resists bedtime.

[creations]

Glad it worked out ok for you both.

So that second nap showing a little resistance, I suspect he's a bit under tired.
Based on what's happened the last few days I'm going to give another suggestion:

WU 7.30
A 3hr 45
S 11.15 - 1.15 (uncapped 2hrs)
A 3hr 45
S 5.00 - 5.15/5.30 (capped)
A 2hr - 2hr 15
BT 7.30

You'll see I'm suggesting a longer A before nap 2, to help him drop off, but also capping at 15-30 mins.  It may be difficult to wake him.  Then he has the short A before BT.
I know the routine isn't totally stable for you at the moment with these few tweaks we've been making - try to bare with it, remember if there is refusal you can take him out of the room and try again 15 min later.  I do suspect he is going to move to one nap very early (earlier than mine) and that this is a transition stage between.

Just looking ahead - how would you feel about LO going to bed earlier in the evening? I can see a possible routine to drop that CN but it involves a 6pm BT.

[centrestage88]

Dear creations,
We went out today, for the first time. After his first nap.lo was so excited and was waving his arms and legs estastatically at everything.
He ended up having his second nap in the baby carrier. I covered his head at 430pm and he slept for 30 mins ( uncapped). Went to bed happily at 730pm.

Wu:720am? ( when I checked on him)
Nap:1115am-105pm? ( when I checked on him)
Nap: 430-5pm ( carrier. Uncapped)
Bedtime: 730pm

Thanks for the new routine. Will see how he behaves tomorrow and try the 5pm/445pm nap. Will cap at 15-30mins.

Yes, the change in routine is making me pretty jittery. I'm trying to take it in stride. Was really anxious while we were out today, but we made it, and his dad was really happy to be able to take him out.

Im not sure how to feel about an earlier bedtime, or even a later bedtime. I will try to be flexible and do whatever is best for lo. Will an earlier bedtime result in early morning wake ups? At the same time, I did read that late bedtimes may create early morning wake ups. Will follow closely to what you suggest though.

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

First off (((hugs)))...these low sleep needs babies can sure throw us for loop I know - my DD3 is very low sleep needs! So glad you got out and about, I remember those days with DD1.

We got to a point similar to you where the catnap was just too hard to accomplish (would take ages of apop to even get 15 min of sleep). We did not do ebt here, but only because we have two older lo's and it just wasn't possible, plus DD3 has always always had a set bedtime and even know we rarely change it as she seems to know! If he already is able to tack on to night sleep then ebt can be a wonderful thing and will not always lead to an ew, quite the oppposite as usually sleep begets sleep.

[creations]

Wonderful that you got out and wonderful he took a nap too! You really have an angel baby!

Don't feel you must stay home to try out the routine. If you have the chance to go out then do so, getting out is great for all of you.

Im not sure how to feel about an earlier bedtime, or even a later bedtime. I will try to be flexible and do whatever is best for lo. Will an earlier bedtime result in early morning wake ups? At the same time, I did read that late bedtimes may create early morning wake ups.

I have a routine in mind to try, not yet, but I'm thinking a little ahead.
It would be something like 6pm BT and 8am WU.
Early wake ups can happen when LO is under or over tired.  If they go to bed too late (too tired) it can disturb sleep at the beginning and end of the night. If they go to bed too early (under tired) and can't manage a long night they can refuse BT and also wake early.  These are not things you need to worry about though honey. We are with you each step and I'm trying to listen to your LO (from a distance ) about what he likes, what he dislikes, what he is ready for.  if we try a routine and it doesn't work out we will be here to work out a different routine.

Keep with what you have for now. If you go out do what you did today, invite him to sleep at roughly the regular time.
If he misses the nap altogether I suggest getting him to bed as soon as possible, you don't need to panic to get home but just focus on the most important parts of the routine, skip bath if needed, do feeds and nappy changes, and the wind down.  Try to get him to bed at 6pm or as close as you can. The following morning you should be able to continue with the routine again.
I'm just trying to prepare you so you have an idea what to do - just in case xx

[centrestage88]

Thanks for the advice ladies.
Will keep to the said routine now.
I had to wake him up, and cap all naps today. But he's been happy and woke up very easily when I woke him up from his naps. Yes, he can be quite an angel baby ( at times)=).
Will see how tomorrow goes. I feel bad capping his naps and waking him up.

Thanks for the mental preparation creations.I really do need predictability and having some idea of what may possibly occur in the future and how to handle it gives me a sense of control.

today:
WU: 730am ( i woke him up)
Nap: 1115-115pm (capped)
Nap: 445-515pm (capped)
bedtime: 730pm

Gosh, what would I do without you gals! =)

[creations]

How's it going the last couple of days?

[centrestage88]

Dear creations,
I have had to cap his wake up time and nap 2 for the past few days. He is happy when I wake him up though and is a happy baby throughout the day.( he is carried on demand though) He goes down for naps and bedtime happily too.

Is it ok to be capping his morning wake up and nap 2? Am I depriving him of sleep?
Also is it okay to cap his first nap at 2 hrs?( 1115-115pm. I have capped his nap 1 once though he generally wakes up within 2hrs)
 was wondering if it's okay to let him sleep in until 8am, but won't do so if it messes up with his schedule.

Past few days:
Wu: 730am ( I wake him up but he is happy when I do so)
Nap: 1115-115( usually uncapped. Capped once)
Nap: 445-515( capped)
Bedtime: 730pm.

Thanks!!

[creations]

Some people need to cap everything at some point, which is ok so long as they really know LO has had enough sleep overall, it's due to needing to have enough A time in the day for LO to get to sleep, if they end up UT and don't take their nap at all then in the end they lose move sleep than they would by it being capped at a reasonable and respectful time.  It's often during a transition period and nap dropping rather than long term.
Personally I prefer not to see a routine with all sleeps capped, when there is at least one natural WU you can feel reassured that if he need more sleep he would take it.
As you've only capped nap 1 once I really don't think there is an issue.

was wondering if it's okay to let him sleep in until 8am, but won't do so if it messes up with his schedule.

At this point I wouldn't. I'll try to explain why.  When he started refusing his first nap he was UT, he needed a longer A time to go down for the nap peacefully.  If you allow WU to move to 8am this shortens the A time before nap 1 and he is likely to refuse again.  The only solution to that refusal is a later nap 1...but then he may refuse nap 2 so nap 2 has to move later... and he already has a short A time to bed which he is currently happy with but if it became shorter he may resist BT. So you see there is a knock on effect through the day of everything moving later if you do an 8am WU at this point, it could result in a later BT and then as he wants a full night sleep he starts needing a later WU, 8.30, and so the problem cycles.
I hope this makes sense. Do ask if you are not sure.

So, for now, and for as long as he is happy, I suggest continuing with this routine.  It sounds like it's going well and he is well rested.  Lets give you a plan for nap 1, just in case he is not awake when you go to him at the 2hr mark - how about we say if he is not awake then you give him 15 extra mins and plan a cap at 2hr 15, this could give him the few mins he needs extra to naturally wake.
If nap 1 is being capped daily or he resists going down for the naps or BT or there is any other change on a regular basis then we will reassess the routine at that point.  By 'regular basis' I mean a few days or a week, it's fine for there to be the odd day where things are not totally spot on, if he is ill, teething, you go out to a party, or there is something else which disturbs the routine as a one off or short term thing.

When we reassess there is a chance we will look at reducing or dropping nap 2.  It may happen soon, it may not happen for a long time.  I'm letting you know so that you can prepare for the future changes.  Don't panic about it though, we are here to help with finding a suitable routine whenever it is needed.
Try to take some reassurance from the fact that when he started to resist naps and was crying at nap time, it was really only a few days or so, and you got through it. If the routine goes off again like this you know you have already survived it before, it will be pretty much the same, some crying, you sooth him, we find a tweak that works and he goes back to being that lovely smiling boy again.

[centrestage88]

Dear Creations
Thanks for the lovely advice and explanation!
Lo has been settling pretty well into the new routine.Not as perfect as I would like, but we have brought him out for 2 days straight so considering that; he has been doing very well. =)
I havent had to cap his nap 1 at all for the past 2 days, and today he woke up naturally by himself this morning at 720am. So I guess that means that he's been having enough sleep, as he's been a happy boy. =)

I will stick to a 730am wake up for him.

Routine so far:
WU:730am
Nap: 1115-115pm
Nap: 445-515pm ( capped)
Bedtime: 730pm

I need some advice re possibly going out with him during nap 2, would like to do so yet I am hesitant about it.  Baby's milk time now. Will post back later!

[creations]

I would just take him out in the afternoon if you want.  I think he had a successful catnap out and about when you went out another day and as you are only expecting 30mins sleep it isn't as much of a burden as trying to get a baby to sleep out and about for say 2hrs.  Pushchair/stroller or sling are fine, don't worry about any props at all for this afternoon nap, props tend to attach to the set sleep time they are associated with so for instance if you rock in a pushchair for the CN this is unlikely to have any effect on his independent self settling for nap 1 or BT.  Keep in mind any prop which develops for the CN will disappear when the nap is dropped and he moves to 1 nap - so it gets solved without having to do anything

[centrestage88]

Thanks creations.
Any idea how regular the nap in the carrier would have to be for him in which in becomes a prop?
I have an option of looking after my niece ( which involves fetching her and taking her to lessons) which coincide with his 445-515pm catnap. It is up to me the number of times a week I do so.

[creations]

Yes of course it is up to you It's all up to you honey you're his Mummy

The thing with using the carrier for the CN is that if you do it less often it may be hard each time for him to fall to sleep, because it is not habit. If you do it more often it becomes habit and he's more likely nod off quickly and happily because that is what he expects.
If you make it habit you may well find that an 'at home' day he is less happy to go into his bed/cot for his CN and will expect/request the carrier (babies request through crying when they are put somewhere they don't want, to tell you "hey where's the carrier?") in which case you could just use the carrier at home too. The point is that you'd need to be prepared for this. You might not like using the carrier at home because you want to have some free time for yourself.  This is one of the 'dilemmas' as a parent, our LOs like regularity and consistency, where as we might like less consistency so that we can use a carrier on the days we want but put him down on the days we want - often this is where the problems arise because of our own conflicts as a parent and not wanting or able to provide the predictable routine our baby wants.
There is no 'harm' in holding your baby for every nap, but it tends to cause problem for the parent because they decide they don't want to hold baby for every nap and so change the game on baby and that's when 'props' become a problem because parents get fed up with no time to re-charge for themselves.
In your particular case, you have an angel baby, it's his character and nature, he may well adapt easily to having some CNs in the carrier and some CNs in his cot, I wouldn't be surprised.  (my DS for instance would have kicked up a huge fuss about such unpredictability)
It's totally your decision. If you end up using the carrier for the CN when out and then also when at home you could feel reassured by knowing this isn't going to go on for years and years.  The CN may remain for several months yet so that's th possibility, but looking at how things have gone up to now I'm kind of thinking the CN is going to reduce to a shorter time (so less arduous for you to do that in the carrier, it is 30 mins now, it may reduce to 15 for instance) and likely to be gone well before 12 months.  That is a very rough time scale to help you make a decision.

It sounds like taking your niece out to her classes would be a great opportunity for you to have somewhere to go, a focus in the day, and to meet people etc.  Your DS may enjoy it too, seeing other people and places and having a look around at the world.  For what its worth I went to as many mum and baby groups as I could, despite still being responsible for DS it actually felt like a bit of 'time off' to be at a play group or class even though I am quite introverted.

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

I always looked at the catnap as being the flexible nap - so for all theee of my kids that nap we used apop. With DD1 she did that nap in a toboggan all winter, DD2 went for stroller walks with DH and DD3 I held or wore for that nap...none of them expected those props for any other sleep as it became the ha it for just that nap. (None of mine were angel babies either - we had a mix of spirited/textbook/touchy here).

Since your lo is already down to a short catnap it will be much easier to ap your way through - though I would also keep in mind that once he is more mobile his sleep needs might change a wee bit if he is quite active. Althoug in saying that DD3 (my lsn lo) never did need more sleep when she started walking & running!