How long does lo's nap schedule last before it changes again?

[centrestage88]

Thks ladies. I will be more adventurous and take him out more often during his last nap then, knowing that the props associated with that nap will not interfere with his other nap. I feel trapped at home due to my fear of him developing nap props but yes, I will endeavour to step beyond the confines of my home.

My angel baby has not been an angel for the past 2 days. Is that normal? Is developmental awareness a factor? I am very surprised by his behaviour.
His mood has been bad and his naps short. He is 7 months 1 week old and suddenly seems more aware of his surroundings. But there have been changes in his routine outside of his naps so I wonder if it has played a part.
-Yesterday was the first time I gave him a bottle of milk ( he is always latched on) and I wonder if it was hunger?  (as he's always latched on I don't know how much he drinks each feed. I put in 150ml and he drank 100ml and refused the rest, so I assumed he was full. He is schedule 5 day feeds, 1 night feed). But he napped poorly for his nap prior to his bottle feed already.
- He has been going out for quite a bit as hubby is home, but we are always back home for his naps.

This morning he also woke up one hour earlier whining for a while before going back to sleep and then woke up whining again but played happily on his own till I got him.

day before yesterday:
WU 720am
feed: 2x                    (latch on)
nap1: 1120-115      ( put down 1115am. uncapped)
feed: 1x                    ( latch on)
nap 2: 455-520       (cried when I put him down at 440pm. I had to carry him till he fell asleep. We did go out and come back at 420pm though so wonder if he was overstimulated)
bedtime:730pm         ( happy)
one night feed           ( usual)

yesterday:
WU: 730am
feed: 2x                     ( latch on)
Nap 1: 1130-1220     ( put down 1115am .played quietly then slept. woke up crying)
feed: 1x                      ( bottle. drank 100ml)
Nap2: 410 -5pm          (very sleepy at 4pm. cried. put him down cried. I had to carry him till he slept. woke up at 5pm crying. He did have his first ever bottle of milk for his prior feed so wonder if he was hungry)
bedtime: 730 pm
he slept a bit fitfully I felt, heard some groans and whines during the night, but he only truly woke up for usual one milk feed)
 
Today so far:
WU: 720am            ( woke up whining but soon played happily by himself)
feed: 1x.                 ( cried alot at 1020am and refused his 1030am breast feed)
Nap 1: 1050-1145am     (cried and cried. put down and cried. carried till he fell asleep. he didnt take his feed. woke up 1145 am crying)
feed: 1145am.              ( out of the usual timing, but I was worried that he was hungry)

His normal schedule is:
WU: 730am
 E:   8am
E:   1030am
N: 1115-115pm ( uncapped)
E: 130pm
N: 445-515pm ( capped)
bedtime: 730pm ( happy)

Maybe I shouldnt read too much into it and just take it that baby's have good and bad days? But my lil one has always been really quite an angel and follows the schedule very well.

 

[creations]

Those days do look unusual for your LO.
The thing is even an angel baby will be bothered by certain things.  One thing that comes to mind is possible teething which might be disturbing his sleep and causing some random crying and grumpiness.
Going out more will give him a higher level of stimulation, it may make him more tired, which may effect your routine. I wouldn't totally avoid going out though, one of the things which may help him hang on to that second nap a bit longer will be extra tiredness from the stimulation of going out, the other is becoming more active as pp said.

For now continue with the routine as it is.  If you need to, go back and review the things we've said about what to do if he cries, what to do if he refuses a nap, sometimes it's good to just refresh your thoughts so you have a plan.
This is likely a blip. Some blips are a day or two, some are longer.
If its teething it can be a day or two, and sometimes I'm afraid the day or two (or a few more) of this whining and altered sleep turns into something way way bigger. I don't want to scare you but I do want you to be prepared. - some LOs when the teeth cut there is 2 or 3 days of absolute hell, I have no other word for it, hell!!  You will need all your strength and patience for those days and you will need to leave aside any house work and rest when you can because the nights may well be long and hard.
It may not at all be like this for you - or not these teeth but perhaps later teeth. But it can be bad.  All we can do as parents is medicate if possible (ibuprofen, paracetamol, follow dose carefully) and be there to comfort them.

Lets see how things go for a few days x

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

I was also wondering about teething given your lo's age. If that is the case yes I agree with creations it can be complete hell (my DD1 was a horrid teether and it really affected her sleep). I was so glad DD3 cut teeth 2, 4 or 6 at a time - some bad days but over with in one shot at least. Overstimulation can be a factor but I would not let that stop you from going out. I used to try (with my oldest two) to have a quieter day follwing a busy one if I was able...DD3 just got fit in to whatever we had to be doing with the older two.

[centrestage88]

Dear ladies
Thks for the head ups about teething. He cut his first 2 teeth without any issues so I assumed that it would be the same for the rest. I guess I better be prepared for some 'hiccups' when more of his teeth come through. He has been drooling more the past few days so I will be on the lookout.

Lo napped shorter today but was happy upon waking up fr his naps so I won't let myself get too worked up over it.

Today:
Wu: 730 am
Nap: 1115-1240am (happy)
Nap: 420?-515? (I wasn't home. Mum took over for this nap. She said he was tired at 420 and put him down. I was so anxious the whole time I was out. She told me that he didn't cry. I'm relieved
bedtime: 740pm

Will continue with the routine as it is.

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

Yes, even though some teeth were not a big issue some were horrible. DD3 got 2 of her 2nd year molars without me realizing it but her canines were bad.

[centrestage88]

Okay,now I'm pretty confused. Lo is just 7 mths 1 week old and has always been low sleep needs, but this? Does he need an increase in A time?
 It's usually 3 hrs 45 mins in the morning.
 But this morning he refused his usual 1115am nap. He did seem very awake when I put him down at 1115am, and started protesting 5 minutes later. I picked him up and wasnt sleepy at all, finally knocking off at 1210pm happily. ( which gave a grand total of 5 hrs 10mins A time)

Do you think he needs a change in schedule? Or should I stick to his old routine for a few more days?
How do I fit in 2 naps a day with such a long A time? And he's soo young.

He has just started to crawl( or rather commando crawl) effeciently and is enjoying his new found freedom so I'm wondering if this is a reason for him resisting naps.
And has been in a good mood.
today:
WU: 7am ( usually 730am) happy
Nap: 1210-   ( put him down 1115am  but refused. took him out. played and finally got tired at noon)

He's still sleeping now, but I'm going to wake him up at 115pm so that I canhopefully  fit in another nap later.

Usual times:
WU: 730am
Nap1: 1115-115pm
nap2 : 445-515pm
bed: 730pm

What should I do about his nap times now?

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

Personally I would have just let him sleep and done ebt...not that he necessarily is ready for one nap but as a one off it wouldn't harm. The thing is when you get into the 2-1 the day can get quite long to fit in 2 naps and enough A time. Though tbh I do wonder was he os/ot from his new skill and might have gone down earlier or is he truly very low sleep needs (entirely possible, I have one of those models myself ).

[centrestage88]

He woke up by himself from nap 1 at 115pm!Didn't cry just rolled happily in his cot. I was so surprised.
He was quite tired by nap 2 and went down as his usual time. Was cranky when I woke him up at 515pm but was soon back to his happy self.

So t0day:
Wu: 7am
Nap 1: 1210-115pm ( uncapped and happy)
Nap 2: 450-515( capped and cranky when I woke him up)
Bedtime: 740pm ( happy)

If I were not to cap his first nap (start nap time: 1210pm) what Time would early bedtime be? Lo has been on a approximately 730pm bedtime ever since he was 2 months old. I always put him to bed because it's 730pm, and Am really bad at ready his body signs unless he's really tired. I really am quite a stickler for routine times though I'm slowly learning how to read his body language.

[creations]

Taking into account your need for predictability I would continue with the routine as set for now.
If the refusals continue properly (every day and with no sign of teething or something else disturbing him) then I would suggest we move directly to 1 nap for which I will give you a suggested routine, just the way we have so far.
Hope this helps.
You did really well to cope with that extra long A time and to take him out and try again later - well done Mummy

[centrestage88]

Thks ladies for the support and compliment. I'm getting more confident of handling him when he cries. I remind myself that it's nothing catastrophic, and to respond lovingly but appropriately.

 He has been waking up at 7am( 2days straight) instead of his usual 730am and seems to be able to stay up longer. So I tweaked the routine a bit. He was okay with it. What do you think?

Today:
Wu: 7am ( on his own)
Nap: 1130-1pm (uncapped)
Nap2: 450-515pm ( uncapped. Cried when I woke him up)
Bedtime:740pm ( happy)

He does seem to be drooling quite a bit but there is no signs of teeth yet. Is he in the territory of moving to one nap? He is still so tiny, I have no idea how he can handle such long A times.

I'm pretty worried when the time comes for him to move to 1 nap. I read that it can be quite a challenge. Thank you for holding my hand!

[creations]

Moving to one nap for me was very very hard, I cannot say otherwise. But you know I am feeling really confident about your LO moving to one nap - honestly I think it's going to be smooth sailing.  FX hey

You did well tweaking the routine

Drooling is a sure sign of teeth moving even if they don't cut yet.

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

Some kids just are not made to fit the average sleep model...my DD3 that I keep referring to has always been low sleep needs, I just did not clue in until she was 4 months old when she went to 2 naps. We were on one nap by 7.5 months and dropped it entirely by 22 months. I would say it has been rather easy once I get my head around the differences between her sleep and my older kids (who are 7 & 9 and generally sleep 10.5 hours at night - only 1/2 hr to an hour less than their 2 yr old sister!). Moving to one nap was actually a relief as I did not have to try and ap the catnap lol.

[creations]

Just looking over what's happened over time I thought it might be useful for you to see a possible 1 nap routine.
This is based on a few things such as:
- he wanted to sleep longer at night and can do 12.5hr or more night sleep but is now reducing his night length
- he appears to be waking earlier and wanting a longer first A time, delaying/refusing first nap until later
- he can do a good long 2hr nap
- he seems to be reducing his first nap length to 1hr or 1.5hr rather than 2hr suggesting he could do with a bit longer A time
- he was comfortable at 14.5hrs total sleep in 24hr, but now he is reducing his sleep to more like 12.5-13.5 total in 24hr

This is how your day could look:
WU 8
A 5hr
S 1-3 (uncapped, it's ok to sleep longer, even 3hrs is fine)
A 4hr
BT 6.30/7.00 (if he took a 3hr nap BT could be 7.30pm)
night 13 - 13.5
overall sleep 15hr+

My thoughts at this point are that it may be worth moving to 1 nap relatively soon to retain the habit of a long night and a long nap 1.  Although he is very young for moving to 1 nap, my slight concern is that if we wait too long he may continue to shorten his night and shorten his nap which then could make it a bit harder to get those back into place.

I would imagine an interim routine like this for the overall transition to take approx 10 days
days 1 & 2
WU 7
A 5hr
S 12 - 2
A 3hr
S 5 - 5.30
A 2hr
BT 7.30

days 3 & 4
WU 7/7.30 (not capped)
S 12.15 - 2.15
BT 6.30

day 5 & 6 (morning WU may be later by now)
WU 7/7.30/8
S 12.30 - 2.30
BT 6.30

days 7 & 8
WU 7.30/8
S 12.45 - 2.45
BT 6.45

day 10...
WU 7.30/8
S 1 - 3
BT 7

I know the best approach for you, and I think for your LO is a regular routine, you both seem to thrive of it.  You may find LO can transition much quicker than this because he is so adaptable.

See what you think and maybe talk with DH about the transition period and the change in BT.
It could be possible to get back to a 7.30pm BT after he'd settled into one nap and when we can see how long a nap he'll take and how long a night he wants to do, after all every LO is individual so we are working with what we know but also with the unknown too

[centrestage88]

Hi creations

Hi creations
 This sounds really daunting! I must admit I am really scared to try this out. Read some scary posts about how we should try to hang on to 2 naps as long. Do you think he is ready? I will definitely give it a shot if you do so. 

Some questions about the transition days that you posted above.
Day 1 &2 :
WU: 7am
does that mean that I must wake him up at 7am?

For the whole schedule:
Do I cap all  naps/WU/bedtime to follow the schedule?

Where do I put his milk feeds in the new schedule?
It's normally 5 day feeds, 2solids( play), 1 night feed
Milk: 8am
Solids: 9am
Milk: 1030am
Milk: 130pm
Solids: 230pm
Milk: 530pm
Milk n sleep: 730pm
 1 night feed

This is how he was for the past 3 days.  Yesterday he slept 2.5hrs for nap 1! ( mum put him down, I was out. She didn't cap his nap as I was going to take him out in the afternoon so I knew he would get really tired) was it OT accumulation from the past few days?

Previous day:
wu: 7am
Nap1: 1130-1pm
Nap 2: 450-515pm ( capped)
Bedtime: 730pm

Yesterday:  brought his out after nap 1.
Wu: 730am ( I woke him up)
Nap 1: 1115-140pm ( I am surprised! uncapped as we were going out later)
nap 2: 450-515pm ( slept in carrier. Capped)
Bedtime: 745pm ( I thought he may not be sleepy as nap 1 was so long. But he was pretty tired by then)

Today:
Wu: 730am ( I woke him up)
Nap 1: 1130-1230pm ( woke up crying. Looked tired still)
Nap: 415( sleepy)

Oh thanks creations!!:)

[centrestage88]

Some kids just are not made to fit the average sleep model...my DD3 that I keep referring to has always been low sleep needs, I just did not clue in until she was 4 months old when she went to 2 naps. We were on one nap by 7.5 months and dropped it entirely by 22 months. I would say it has been rather easy once I get my head around the differences between her sleep and my older kids (who are 7 & 9 and generally sleep 10.5 hours at night - only 1/2 hr to an hour less than their 2 yr old sister!). Moving to one nap was actually a relief as I did not have to try and ap the catnap lol.

Wow! Yr little one was on 1 nap at 7.5 months? Tts early. It must have taken you by surprise. We're you concerned given tt she was only 7.5mths old?