HELP! My 13 month old independent sleeper won't sleep! NWs, EWs, etc.

[FroggyMom]

DD is now 12.5 months old (Wow, where has the time gone?!   )  I can't believe I'm on the toddler sleep board now!     She has always been a great independent sleeper.  I would lay her in her crib at nap time and bedtime, and she would be asleep on her own in less than 10 minutes (even less than 5 minutes a lot of times).  Of course, there is always the occasional times (teething, developmental milestones, etc.) where we have a couple of rough days/nights in a row, but this never lasts more than about 3 days or so....until recently!!!   

I feel like I'm at my wits end with DD's sleeping now, and I'm SOOOOOO exhausted!  My DS has also just started kindergarten, and I'm having a hard time with this as well.  Not only was I not ready to send my first born baby off to school....but of course, I now have to find a way to work DD's naps around car pool.  Sigh.  We started the 2-1 nap transition when DD was 10 months old!  It has been 2.5 months, and she is still not settled on one, long nap.  This seems like a long time to me.  Is it normal for the transition to take this long?  Before the past 2.5 weeks, she was doing a little better.  She would nap about 30-40 min and then wake.  However, I could resettle her easily with her pacifier.  She would go back to sleep and usually do a total of about 1 hr 40-45 min nap or so.  She would also tack on sleep she missed during the day at night doing 12-13 hour nights most nights. 

Then, about 2.5 weeks ago, she started having long NWs (sometimes 2 hours!) and EWs.  It also takes me up to 30-40 minutes of standing in her room patting her occasionally to get her to sleep at times (and she has always been an independent sleeper).  Right after this started, we also went on vacation for a week.  I thought maybe her sleep would go back to normal once we got home, but we have been home for awhile now, and it has not.     At first, I thought it may be due to teething, developmental, etc., but now I'm not so sure.  As I said, any sleep disruption due to this usually only lasts a few days....it seems as if DD may never sleep again at this point!  HAHA!   

I have been trying to go with 1 nap; however, some days I feel I have to try 2 naps if she is up too early.  For instance, she woke at 5:45 am today.  I don't see how she could make it on 1 nap today.  I have tried short AM/long PM, long AM/short PM, and one nap and nothing seems to help her NWs and EWs.  She may have anywhere from 2-8 NWs a night now (some long/some short).  I used to have to wake her sometimes at 8 am...now she rarely makes it past 6 am!  I'm just not sure what to do anymore!!!  She used to nap well with A time of 5 hour 20 minutes before all of this started.  Now, it seems as if I've tried anything from 5-6 hours with no luck!  Yesterday, she napped for 1 hour and did a 10 hr 45 min night.  I think DD may be low sleep needs, but even so...doesn't 11 hr 45 min seem like not enough at this age?  Any help would be GREATLY appreciated!  I feel like I'm losing my mind over trying to get DD to sleep, and I'm sooooo exhausted!  Sigh.

[lauradj]

Sounds rough hon!  That's no fun 
When you say NW's what happens?  Does she just cry out, does she cry for prolonged periods of time, does she call out for you?  I'm asking because DS1 went through a period of about 2 months where he would do what we called a blast cry most nights.  I would cry out, lasting no more than 10-15 secs and either never wake or just go back to sleep.  We learned very quickly to wait a full two minute before going in.  I am, in no way at all, advocating you allow your baby to cry.  However I know if I go in too quickly, it's more disruptive than helpful.
I also wonder if perhaps your LO is not ready for the 2-1 transition.  Did most of these issues start when you transition her?  Many babies still need two naps until they're 18 months old and the frequent NW could be an indicator that she's OT.  However, if all of this started just two weeks ago, with a vacation in there two, I would chalk it up to developmental and realize that this too shall pass.  What do you do when she wake at night?

[FroggyMom]

Sounds rough hon!  That's no fun 

Yes, very rough!  And surely no fun!

Thank you so much for responding!  I am really at a loss of what to do here.  DD only had a total of 11 hours 25 min in a 24 hour period yesterday.    I know this is not enough but between fighting naps, NWs, and EWs....I just can't figure out how to get her to sleep anymore!

As far as the NWs, she wakes up, stand up in her crib, and cries.  I do know what you are referring to with the blast cry as DD used to do this when she was sleeping through the night well.  However, unfortunately, she is actually waking up, crying and needing help to get back to sleep every night now.  My husband or I have to go in and give her pacifier back sometimes, sshhh, pat, etc. 

I also wonder if perhaps your LO is not ready for the 2-1 transition.  Did most of these issues start when you transition her? 

I have hard a hard time going back and forth and struggling with this myself.  We started experimenting with 1 nap days about two weeks or so before her sleep went wonky.  She had begun to refuse 1 nap, so I thought she was ready for the transition even though it was early.  DD has always been on the lower end of sleep needs it seems.  However, she seems to have become so OT, I have gone back to trying some 2 nap days to see if that helps.  However, it seems she doesn't sleep well anymore no matter what I do.    Is there a 12 month sleep regression that I could be fighting?  It has been 17 days now since this started. 

It now also seems that DD has started to develop some separation anxiety the past 2 days.  She has become very clingy to me even around other family she is used to.  Also, for the past 2 days, she has sometimes refused DH to lay her back down in the crib when she stands up fussing at nap or bedtime...only allowing me to do it. 

I also thought I should mention DS just started kindergarten last week, and we don't live so close to the school.  I am now in the car most days from 1:30-3:30 pm in the afternoon to get him at carpool.  So, it's also hard to make a nap plan around this.  DD seems to fall asleep in the car on the way there and sleep 30-35 minutes at the most as she usually wakes once the car stops moving in car pool.    I thought maybe a short AM/long PM nap may be the way to go at the moment perhaps to at least try; however, I can't work out a long PM nap with carpool at the moment. 

I'm just not sure where to go with DD's sleep at this point.....

[FroggyMom]

So, we still aren't doing so well over here, and everyone is in need of sleep!!!!  LOL!!!   It seems most days DD will take two 40 minute naps if I go the 2 nap route or with the one nap route it may be vary anywhere from one 40 min to an hour nap.  Nights are still not going well no matter if we do 1 nap or 2 naps.  She has only had one NW the past two nights instead of several NWs though.  She is wanting to get up earlier and earlier though.  She used to typically wake around 7:15 am before all of this sleep disturbance started about three weeks ago now.  Then, she started waking at 6:30 am, then 6:15 am....and now she has gotten up at 5:45 am the past two mornings, and I could not resettle her.    The chart on here said babies at 1 year old should be getting 14-16 hours of sleep in a 24 hour period.  Yesterday, she did about about 12 hours 20 min...and that's even more than she has done most days in the past 3 weeks.  I'm just not sure what to do anymore.  Any suggestions?!

[lauradj]

I meant to mention previously that DS1 went through a phase, right around this age, where he would wake around 5:45/6:30 for a solid two months. It drove me nuts!  Eventually he went back to his 7am WU time but that changed again in March, shortly after DS2 was born.  Typical WU time is now 6:15/6:30 but I don't go in and get him until 6:45. 
Is there another family close by that drives to school?  Perhaps you could drive the kids in and another family could do pick up?  Otherwise, this may just be a phase you have to push through.  If she's taking two 40 minute naps, that's better than no nap at all and yes, I agree, one NW is a vast improvement on 2 or 3.  I agree, a short AM nap and a long PM nap would be ideal but that doesn't sound like a possibility right now.  If you're able to, I'd go for the long AM nap and she can CN in the car or when you get home. 

[lauraims]

Hey Luv!! So sorry things aren't going well! Our lo's are the same age. We've spoken in the past. My dd has just recently been going through a stage of getting so upset when I put her down and leave the room at sleep times. She has been an independent sleeper since 3 months. Our issues coincided with her learning to crawl. So maybe a developmental thing is going on. We're still doing two naps. Although I'm just re evaluating her routine at the moment as she has been sick so was napping a lot. Now she seems to need 3.5-4 hours before a find nap.
Our routine currently is
WU (5.30-6.30) has been early lately 🙊
Nap1- 4 hours after wakeup for 1.5hours
Nap2- 3.5-4hours after nap 1, for 30 mins
Bed at 6.30/7

What about if you try a small 15 min cAtnap about 3.5hours after wakeup then a bigger nap after that ? I see that carpool might be hard to work around though. Hmmm
Have you tried going back to just 4.5 hours first wake time ?
Maybe just a build up of OT from pushing too fast ?

[FroggyMom]

Well, we are just still not doing well over here!    Sigh.  It has now been a month since NWs, EWs, and difficulty with naps started.  I really just can not figure out which direction to go with DD right now.  The only thing I have seemed to figure out is that 2 naps vs. 1 nap does not make a difference in the NWs or EWs.  However, it does seem if I lay her in her crib by 6:30 pm (which is earlier than we used to do), she will sometimes make it through the night with no NWs (yea...has done this 3 times lately now!); however, she does still wake between 5:40-5:50 am.  No matter what time she goes to sleep, she always wakes at this time!  It is like her little body has an alarm set to it...lol!

I meant to mention previously that DS1 went through a phase, right around this age, where he would wake around 5:45/6:30 for a solid two months. It drove me nuts! 

Well, it's good to know I'm not the only one, and that it may return to normal....eventually!!! However, 1 month has driven me nuts! I may have to work on finding a carpool as far as school goes; however, right now I will need to take DD with me most days (although MIL may have her 1-2 days a week in the afternoons sometimes).  Like you said, although the short AM/long PM is ideal, I have tried to go for the long AM/short PM car nap that may fit better with our situation right now.  I just can't figure out how to get her to nap long enough in the morning though.    I have even gone up to 6 hours morning A time and even that doesn't produce a realizable nap.  I shouldn't go about that...should I?  I feel like DD is low sleep needs.  She is getting nowhere near the recommended 14-16 hours sleep for her age.  I realize she may be low sleep needs, but I do feel like she needs more sleep than getting now probably. 

As far as sleep scheduling, this is what our 2 nap day may look like:
5:45 wake-up
10-10:30 or 10:40 (AM nap) **I aim for 10 but it took me about 25 min to get her to even fall asleep this morning.  I don't think a 10 am nap is ideal because she does not seem tired enough yet for even a short nap.
1:50 or 2 pm or so (falls asleep in car for PM nap...may nap around 30 minutes or so)
6:30 pm bedtime

Our 1 nap day may look like this:
5:45 am wake-up
11:45 am (nap for 50 minutes to 1.5 hours....for some reason, she will only nap around 50 minutes and then can't be resettled at home.  However, when at MIL's, she will wake but resettle after a few minutes for some reason and nap a bit longer)
6:30 pm bedtime

I feel like I should try to be consistent, but as I really have no idea what to do...I seem to switch back and forth between the two. 

lauraims, I was actually thinking about you and wondering how you and your LO were doing!  Thanks so much for checking in with me again!  I don't have time to write anymore right now but will get back on and respond more when I can!  :

[FroggyMom]

So, yesterday's schedule didn't work very well.  DD woke up at 5:50 am, and we tried a two nap day. Nap 1 was from 10:21 to 11 am. Nap 2 was from 2:30 to 3:04 pm. Bedtime was about 6:45 pm. She had a NW around 10:30 pm, and then woke up early for the day at 4:47 am. . This is even an hour earlier than usual. Can anyone help me figure out a schedule that may work better for DD?  I feel like I'm treading water to stay afloat with the lack of sleep here. Thanks!

[FroggyMom]

I don't even know what kind of bedtime to do with a 4:47 am wake up!  I don't want DD's day to get too long, but I also don't want to do a super early bedtime as I feel that will just lead to continued EW's.  What do you ladies think?

[FroggyMom]

So, today appears to be even worse than usual.    After a 4:47 am wake-up, I decided to try for a 1 nap day with a longer morning A hoping she would be tired enough to take a decent nap.  She fell asleep at 10:31 am (A of 5 hrs 44 min) and woke up at 11:07 am (only slept 36 minutes).  It took me 20-25 minutes to resettle (usually I can't even get her to resettle back to sleep), and then she only slept 7 more minutes.  I'm pretty sure I'm caught in some nasty UT/OT loop now because she should be tired enough to sleep.  Help!!!  What do I do to fix this?!

[Shiv52]

Looking at the routines you posted if you are doing a 6.30 bedtime anything from 5.30am onwards wouldn't really be an early waking yk? But I would though pick a wake up time that is reasonable and if she wakes before that Id be resettling. Just sorry baby still night time. So at 4.47am I would not have been getting her up. Getting babies up at that early waking can help set it for sure.

Have you considered set naps? I just think you are trying lots of different things and different A times and you really need to stick with something for a week or two to see if it works. And it be easier to tweak from there. And then hopefully   You can get bedtime and you wake up pushed later.

So if wake up is generally 5.45what's about nap at 11.15.  Would 5 hours 30 A time be enough? I think both mine needed at least that at that age.

What's the deal with the school pick up. Are you driving that whole time? Or sitting waiting in a queue?

[gejun]

hold your hands, I am in the same boat, ladies here gave me good advices, but still in mess now.

[FroggyMom]

Thanks so much for taking a look at our current routine!  I truly appreciate it!  I understand what you mean about 5:30 am not really being an early wake up if bedtime is at 6:30 pm. However, I'm just concerned she is not getting enough sleep with an 11 hour night if only doing one nap of 1 hr 15 min at best usually. I sw you said getting babies up early can set that wake up time as well. I did not let her up at 4:47 am but I do think she somehow got set to wake at 5:50 am everyday. This all started just after her first birthday. Is there a sleep regression then?

As far as picking up my son from school, this is our schedule:
1:30 pm leave house and drive to school
2:05 pm. Arrive at school and wait in line until son gets out
2:45-3:20 pm. Drive back home

DD will usually fall asleep on way to school but always wakes not long after the car stops when we are waiting in line. So, I can't count on a long nap here.

I have not though about set naps. Do people usually start going towards that at this age?  I could give that a try. We may actually be making a bit of progress the past day or so. Sunday she woke around 6:20 pm, and I tried a moving bedtime back a bit to 7 pm that night. However, she woke again at 5:50  on Monday. Then she napped maybe 1 hr 5 min or so starting at about 1210 pm or so. We tried 7 pm bedtime again, and she woke at 6 am today. I went on to resettle twice, but she went back to sleep from about 6:20 am to 7:30 am. I was not sure what time to try nap today. She slept from 1:04 to 2:18 pm. It seems close to 1 hr 15 min is the most I can get out of one nap with her. I've considered whether I moved her to one nap too soon. However, two nap days don't seem to go great either anymore.

I think DD may be LSN. Yes, I would probably need at least 5.5 hours awake time to get her to nap. I've been trying 6 hours a lot though. If she wakes after 35 min but is easily resettled for another 35 min or so, does this lend more towards OT or UT?  I feel like we've been stuck in OT/UT loop for months!!!

So, what do you think I should expect as far as total hours of sleep from her at 13 months at this point?  Would you go towards a set nap?  Typing on my phone so a bit hard to go back and look at everything!  Hope this all makes sense!  Thanks so much!

[lauradj]

I've included two links below that you might find helpful, now and in the future.  I am a big fan of set naps and I implemented them with my first child at 7/8 I think, so you could definitely give that a try.  You could try a Groclock, which would let your LO know it's simply not time to wake up yet but she might be a little young to understand it yet.  When my DS1 starting waking earlier, 6:15am-ish, I simply refused to go in and get him until 6:30.  He wasn't crying or even calling out for me, he was just awake so I let him just chill there for a bit while I had my shower.  At least that way I knew he was lying quietly in a dark room and a few times he even fell back asleep.  Now that's it's darker in the mornings, he's sleeping until 6:45ish. 

Typical Amounts of Day and Night Sleep
Early Waking

[Shiv52]

I'd hope for a decent nap about 5.5 hours/6 hours from wake up as in 2 hours?  And either a CN to keep her going to bed so you could do a slightly longer day or else just bed as usual.

So say

Wake up 5.45
nap 11.45
Wake up 1.45
Bed 6.45

But if you've a bust nap then a CN on way to school.

You seem to wait a long time in line. Is there no way you can just turn up at the end so you're not hanging about?  Do they expect all parents to wait 45 mins before they can leave again?  That seems awful.