9 months old snacking all of a sudden! How can I fix this?

[Anders45]

It all started when I transitioned my 0 month old (7.5 adjusted) twins from the 2 hours awake, 2 hours asleep to 3 hours awake and 2 hours asleep. Before that I would feed them when they woke up and they did really well waiting 4 hours between feeds. Then it was 5 hours between feeds and they were waking up 1/2 and hour to an hour into their naps hungry. So the lady who was helping me suggested feeding them 15 minutes before I put them to sleep to get them through. So I did. Then they didn't want to eat when they woke up, so I would wait a little while (like an hour) and offer the bottle again and they would only eat a few ounces. Then a half hour later they would be super upset, so I'd give them the bottle and they would eat happily. And it has progressed into them eating 2 or 3 ounces every hour or so... This is driving me crazy! Is there anyway I can fix this?

Here is what our schedule currently looks like:

WU 6
Nurse/bottle feed
Solids 7:30
A
Sleep 9 (or 9:30 depending on the day)
WU 10:30 (or 11 depending on the day)
Nurse/bottle (maybe)
Solids 12
Nurse/bottle 1:00
Sleep 1:30 (or 2 if I can keep them entertained that long)
WU 3
Nurse/bottle (they are usually good eaters at this one)
Solids 4
A
Solids and bottle 6
BT 7
DF (working our way off of this currently)

[Erin M]

Bumping you up, sorry you've gotten missed!  How are things now?

[creations]

Hi
Can you clarify the E times please?  You say they are taking a couple of oz of milk every hour or so but your EASY times do not show this.  From the EASY you posted it looks like 5 milk feeds plus a DF and 4 solids meals. I'm not seeing where the hourly milk snacking is coming. From what I see my first thoughts are that there are possibly one too many milk feeds and one too many solids feeds in the routine, however, some LOs do need a top up milk and a snack so when I say 'too many' it's not a hard and fast rule at all.

It would help to see exactly where the snacking times are coming if you can post every E through the day please (nap times too so we can make sure we fit feeds around sleeps).

[Anders45]

Hey guys! Sorry. Life has been hectic. LO has started waking up in the middle of the night (between 1 and 3) screaming. We settle him down, then give him a bottle and he'll eat about 5 oz (the only time during the day that he eats that much). So LO eats about 2 oz every 2 hours or so. I try to get him to eat more by holding him, letting him hold the bottle, giving him a five minute break, but after the 2-3 oz he usually refuses. Then 2 hours later he acts ravenous and he eats 2 more ounces.  Let me redo the EASY schedule. Sorry.

WU 6
E 6 - Usually only 2 oz (hubby gives him the bottle)
A
E 8 solids/bottle (another 2 oz)
A
S - 9 ish
WU 10:30
E 10:30 about 2-4 ounces (usually 2, but sometimes I can get him to eat 4 if I'm SUPER diligent)
A
E 12 Solids - lunch!
A
E 1 another 2 oz from the bottle (the lady who was helping me suggested I top them off about 15 minutes before putting them to sleep to help them get through their naps, so that is what we are still doing here)
A
S 1:30
WU 3:30 ( or 4 if I'm lucky)
E 3:30 2-4 oz (again, usually 2)
A
E 5 puff snack
A
E 6 dinner
A BT routine
E 7:30 Bottle (4)
Asleep 8

DF 9:30 (maybe 4 oz if we're lucky)

Note: We gradually got them down to a 9:00 DF and decided to drop it altogether (they weren't eating that much at this time either) and they didn't like that... woke up at 12, 3, 4, and then up for the day at 6... Now LO just wakes up at 3 screaming and then downs 5 oz. Also, the nutritionist at WIC told me they need 3 solid meals a day and I need to up that to 10 a day. I realize that they aren't always... up to date. How many solid meals would you suggest at this age? They are 9.5, 8 months adjusted at this point.
Thank you!

[creations]

Sorry I have some more questions:
- Is it just 1 of the twins waking in the night for the 5oz feed?
- Are they both taking roughly the same during the day hours and DF?
- Is there any sign of reflux or silent reflux? (I'm asking because frequent small meals can sometimes help reflux pain, they are unable to take larger amounts but find comfort in sucking so take feeds more often. Reflux babies can also find it more comfortable to take bigger feeds at night when they are sleepy)
- Can you give us an idea of what solids they are taking, is it all puree or some finger foods? Are you giving dairy solids? Are you making purees with water or formula to slacken?
- Have you tried the formula at different temperatures? So will they take more if it is room temp, from the fridge or very warm?
- Have you tried a different teat or bottle?

I'm sorry there are so many questions. Hopefully we can get a good picture of what is happening.

WRT to your routine as it stands
Counting those oz on the lower side (so 2 rather than 4 in most cases) it seems they are hitting the low end of guidance amount, maybe find a little reassurance in that.
Some babies just don't seem to like their milk feeds, mine took less than guidance and it was a constant concern for me but he gained weight exactly as he should, he was a petite boy but followed his centile line even with his low milk intake. If your babies are gaining weight as they should this may also be a reassurance for you rather than the exact amount of formula taken per day.

Tracy suggested when introducing solids to give a top up milk at the end of solid meals. Many parents don't do this or their LOs don't want it, that's fine it's not a hard and fast rule. I saw with my LO in the early days of solids he would refuse to take more milk at a milk-feed but screamed and cried for solids, then directly after solids he screamed and cried for milk, so I gave the top up milk feed after solids until he no longer wanted it (for us it was a short time but I see no harm it going on longer).  Whilst this might look like 'snacking' which we are warned against for new borns it is not really the same thing when we are talking about older babies and toddlers.  When the solids meals are added to the routine it looks anyway like baby is eating all day (even if milk was every 4 hrs, solids 1hr after milk feeds plus a top up, there ends up so many feeds in the day especially when they move to 3 meals).

A few things you could change in the routine at the moment:
- Bring breakfast solids earlier to 7am, 1hr after WU milk.  Continue the top up. This may (or may not) help the after nap E.
- add a top up to the lunch solids meal rather than waiting until just before nap. This may (or may not) help increase the after nap E
- move dinner to 4.30pm (so 1hr after the milk feed) include a top up.  I know this looks early for dinner but many LOs eat much better earlier on. This also means there is more offering of milk (almost like cluster feeding) in the afternoon/evening and more time before BT for them to feel hunger and take a better BT feed which may in turn help them both get through the night on the DF rather than an additional NF. However do continue to feed at night if your LO wakes hungry.
So roughly routine looks more like
WU 6
E 6 milk
E 7 breakfast solids + top up
S 9-10.30
E 10.30 milk
E 11.30/12.00 lunch solids + top up
S 1.30 - 3.30/4
E 3.30/4 milk
E 4.30/5.00 solids dinner + top up
E 7.30 BT milk
BT 8
DF 9.30 continue or move later to 10.30 (4hr from last E)
NF if necessary.

What do you think?

WRT solids - it's fine for LOs of 8+ months to be on 3 solids meals. Some will take to solids in a big way and eat lots, other will not be all that much interested and may take more at some meals and less at others. I would follow your LOs lead on quantity.  General guidance is for 3 solids meals around 8 ish months but it is individual like with so many things. My DS was on 3 meals very quickly as he liked the food and disliked his milk and because no matter what I tried he would not take more formula (I really did try).  It would also be recommended that at least some of the foods are offered as finger foods at this age, rather than every meal being puree.
Hope this helps.

When you are able to answer the questions I will have a look and perhaps ask for more eyes to look at the additional information too.

[Anders45]

Thank you! I will try topping them off right after solids and see if that helps.

And yeah it is only the one now having problems. The older twin eats 5oz really well at most feeds.

I'm not sure if they have reflux. I know he did when he was a newborn. And they do still spit up. Is that reflux? My doc said it was normal.

I've been doing the baby led weaning mostly and giving just a little bottled puréed food every now and then. We eat squash, and potatoes, pickles, bread, peaches (most fruits actually), some yogurt and cheese on occasion, no milk yet though.

I have tried formula at different temperatures. He'll take it best warm and room temperature but doesn't like it cold from the fridge.

We use several different bottles and I've not noticed that it makes much of a difference.

I try to have dinner a little later so that we can eat with their dad, should I still move that meal do you think? Or is there anyway we can incorporate that social event into their lives as well while still having dinner at 4?

Thanks again for your help!

[creations]

I'm not sure if they have reflux. I know he did when he was a newborn. And they do still spit up. Is that reflux? My doc said it was normal.

If you feel that reflux or silent reflux might be effecting the 1 twin I would suggest following this up more with your doctor or asking for a second opinion. It might be that meds would help.  Have you read the list of symptoms?
Reflux 101 - General reflux information

I try to have dinner a little later so that we can eat with their dad, should I still move that meal do you think? Or is there anyway we can incorporate that social event into their lives as well while still having dinner at 4?

I'm a big believer in having family meals when possible. You might find a comfortable routine with the LOs having their main dinner earlier and then sitting at the dining table in the high chairs for the family meal, perhaps offering a piece of finger food and a sippy cup of water so they are 'joining in' and are also learning about the social aspects of family and meals.  If they've had their dinner earlier they will be less hungry at the family meal but hopefully more hungry at the BT milk feed.  If it doesn't work out for you then you can return to dinner at 6pm. It's really your choice, I can only suggest options and experience of LOs being generally more interested in food earlier in the day rather than later.

[Anders45]

I do still have some zantac that was prescribed for him when he was a newborn. It probably isn't the right prescription, but it shouldn't hurt to give it a try, right, just to see if it helps. He does still spit up, but not nearly as bad as it used to be (they both do, but only the one complains ever). He has been getting irritable about an hour after he eats, I just figured that was because he was hungry, do you think maybe it is because of reflux? I do remember thinking last night that he was acting colicy (or what I think colicy is, he has never done this before).

I tried the top up after their solid meals yesterday and the baby I'm concerned only took about half an ounce. He drank about 4 ounces right before his nap though, and that was the only thing that would calm him enough to get him to stop screaming. I didn't let him fall asleep with the bottle though ( I sometimes zone out when feeding them and they fall asleep while nursing/eating). Once he had his fill he laid down in his crib content and just kind of rocked back and forth and cooed until he fell asleep. However, he didn't eat until about 2 hours after he woke up from his 1.5 hour nap.

He ate about 4 ounces for his dream feed and then woke up at 5 super upset (like screaming). He did have a dirty diaper, he ate about 2 ounces, threw that up, and then ate two more ounces. He was just so upset, and I was so tired, that we ended up cuddling in bed (P.S. - I can count on one hand the number of times I have let him fall asleep in my bed on one hand) and he fell asleep there after talking and cooing a bit. But he was significantly calmer once I cuddled up with him. Is he maybe going through some sort of attachment phase? I don't even know how to help him because I don't know what is wrong.

Anyways, Thanks for your help. I really appreciate it.

[creations]

To me he sounds refluxy but I am not very experienced other than from my own DS (silent reflux) and from reading threads on the forums. I've asked another mod to stop by to look over the symptoms.

If your zantac was already open it will be past it's shelf life now, I'm assuming it's a syrup but perhaps not, either way check the date. And it is not going to be the correct dose but I wouldn't be able to advise on that other than suggesting you call your doc/paediatrician.

For now I really wouldn't worry too much about him falling to sleep on the bottle or falling to sleep on you. If props form they can be weaned. If he needs you due to some sort of pain I'd do whatever it takes to help him and comfort him rather than focusing on independent sleep. If he was independent before I'm sure he'll return to that pretty well even if props or habits are formed now. Don't panic over it.

[Anders45]

K. I'll wait for other responses then. Thank you again. He took about two ounces after his morning nap and seems to be doing pretty good. We'll have a snack and then top up in about half hour I think.

[lauradj]

Hi there!  I'm not specifically a reflux mod but my DS2 has reflux so I'll try to help where I can.  It does sound to my like the reflux may be rearing it's head again.  Has he just gone through a bit developmental push?  I wonder if this might affect things.  My DS2 has always been a small eater, 2-3oz/feed until 4 months, and now 4/5oz at 6 months but he's still gaining weight.  Instead of giving him his old medication, I would take him into his doctor/pediatrician.  You want the right dosage and his doctor should be kept in the loop. 
FWIW, this whole past week DS2 was taking a 6oz bottle before he took his afternoon nap.  It must have been a growth spurt or something but he'd lie in his crib, I'd hold the bottle and then he'd just lie there for a minute when done, and eventually fall asleep.  I didn't like it because I was worried it was becoming a prop but he seems over it now.  The other thing is, I count 4 hours from when DS2 last had a bottle.  So if he WU's and has a bottle at 7am, I know he's likely ok until 11am.  Basically, follow your gut regarding the feeds and consult your doctor if you're worried the reflux has returned.
I hope that helped a bit.

[Anders45]

I feel a little better now that they aren't taking quite as much. I have been feeding them right when they wake up, and then topping up right after their solids meal. They have been getting around 5-6 ounces with those two combined meals. I feel much better. And the transition was a lot easier than I thought it would be. Thank you so much again. I have an appointment scheduled with my pediatrician for his reflux and we'll see what she says.

[creations]

Oh I'm glad to hear things are somewhat better. Hope the appointment goes well x