34 month old sleep help

[labrodyk]

Unfortunately, I'm back again... 33 weeks pregnant and trying to sort this out so we're all a little more rested and not grumpy.

H is now 34 months and sleep across the board is quite erratic. I moved the nap back to 1.40 as suggested and he's usually asleep by 2.00pm and wakes himself at or before 3.30. Bedtime is 7.00pm still because I tried 8pm and he was still taking up to an hour to settle and waking at the same time in the morning between 6-6.30am. However, the last week we've had a few NND (and one late night with a no nap) and has started these crying NW's.

Could this just be OT? Or UT/OT loop? Or a need to drop nap CT?  OR developmental? OR my being pregnant and sensing changes? Sorry...I'm so confused.

Monday 17-August
WU: 6.15
OOB: 7.00
Nap: 2.00; played until 2.45 - 3.30
BT: 7.00, OOB 7.20 to do a wee. Asleep 7.47

NW: 12.45 - toilet.

Tuesday 18-August
WU: 6.30
OOB: 7.00
Nap: 1.45-2.05 (car)
BT: 6.35, asleep 7.00

Wednesday 19-August
WU: 6.00
Nap: 1.33, asleep 1.53 - 3.17 awake and OOB
BT: 7.00, toilet 7.10, asleep 7.40

Thursday 20-August
WU: 5.00, chatting from 6.00
OOB: 7.00
Nap: 1.40, asleep 1.55 - 3.25
BT: 7.00, asleep 7.55

Friday 21-August
WU: 6.30
OOB: 7:00
Nap: 1.40, asleep 2.00-3.30
BT: 7.00, asleep 8.05

Saturday 22-August
WU: 6.30
OOB: 7.00
Nap: NND, quiet 1.40-2.40 watching iPad
BT: 6.30, asleep 6.35

Sunday 23-August
WU: 6.00-6.30
OOB: 7.00
Nap: 2.00 - 3.30
BT: 7.00, asleep 8.10

Monday 24-August
WU: 6.40
OOB: 7.00
Nap: NND: crying and didn't want to go down at 1.40. Quiet activities & went to toilet during 1hr quiet time.
OOB: 2.40.
Tried to encourage a nap all afternoon but wouldn't
BT: 8.30, asleep 8.35 (dinner plans).
NW: 11.30 - calling out 'no'
NW: 11.50-12.30 - my room for a cuddle, drink of water. Crying. Asleep 12.45 after I sat in his room with no eye contact for 15mins. He said goodnight as I left the room so was still awake.

Tuesday 25-August
WU: 6.55 crying (could be earlier...)
Nap: 1.40, asleep 1.55 - 3.30
BT: 7.00, asleep 8.00

NW:
4.30 came to my room saying his eyes hurt?
5.00 came to my room - needed to do a poo, but didn't go when I took him.
From 5.00 was crying for a cuddle, more soft toys and a drink of water!
Finally fell back to sleep just after  5.30.

Wednesday 26-August
WU: 7.20 - crying and came to me saying his legs hurt?! Pretty miserable all morning..

Thanks so much for your help!!!

[Johnnyha65]

I so feel you're pain, I'm 33 weeks pregnant and DS turned 3 at the end of June we've had sleep shenanigans since May, it started off with getting out of bed at night repeatedly up to 4 times, which I think was developmental. No amount of tweaking helped, we'd dropped the nap back in January but re-instated it thinking it was that, seems to have settled down but we now only get 10hrs ONS max if he has a capped nap and is awful to wake I mean awful, so much so we've dropped it again CT. He's still only doing 10:45/11 hrs total sleep which worries me but hoping nights lengthen as his body adjusts again to no nap or maybe they won't. He has a dip around 5pm and if we're in the car we have to be careful but on the whole is coping okay.

So afraid I don't have any real advice just wanted to offer my support, I'm shattered but think of it as training for the newborn night feeds!

Hope things improve for you soon x

[bloosiern]

You're definitely not alone, we are in a mess over here too.  My LO is 32 months.

Our LO's seem very similar.  E has her best nights when she is asleep by 745 but we are having trouble figuring out what time to do her nap and how long to let her nap for in order to get there.  She has always been ASN and does best right now with 12.5 hours sleep but I just can't get the distribution of it right.

I've been following your threads in hopes of finding a solution:)

The only things that I thought of when reading your most recent posts are:

-since his average WU tends to be 0630, have you tried PD as early as 11.5 hours after WU as it seems PD 12 hours after WU leads to a 600 WU?

- have you tried an earlier nap with the same 0700 bedtime to see if that helps settling at BT?

Just a few thoughts based on what we've tried/are going to try here:)

[labrodyk]

Thanks so much for the support ladies - really appreciate it.

Apart from the last few days of craziness, which now appears could be from a fever as we were up most of the night with sweating, temps and medicine and even slightly delusional at some point (I have horrific pelvic pain and he came in last night saying his pelvis hurt!). He had a massive 2hr nap yesterday and was asleep in 5 minutes come 7pm but then woke every 30-60mins until 1am... So something else definitely at play.

HOWEVER, I just can't get the naps and night sleep right when he isn't sick.

* Earlier nap - fights to go for the nap then lays awake and usually results in no nap.
* putting down earlier at night - if he sleeps until 3.30 do you think he'd go down at 6.30? I doubt he'd sleep until 6.30 being an ERer, likely up at 5am!
Having said that - after dinner H gets this MASSIVE energy burst and he's bouncing off the walls like a lunatic. Runs away from getting dressed, picks fights with DH who he won't let do anything to get him ready. Tantrums over who is drying, dressing, reading books, so I really can't figure out whether when I put him down he's UT or OT. He certainly does not tack on though!

[labrodyk]

Ok, so today we did a much earlier nap because after a great morning H had a fever spike so after some paracetamol he was asleep in a few minutes from 1.20. He woke crying after 40 minutes but was able to resettle before I went in and woke and got up at 3.05. Thought he'd crash again tonight but no. BT 7.00 and awake still at 8.00 but has come out of bed twice for a poo (which he didn't do) and then blow his nose.

He had several crying nightwakings but stopped before I made it out of bed and to his room (which takes a while).
NW: 2.30
NW: 5.50
NW: 6.40

He settled but didn't go ack to sleep at 5.50. He's been exhausted today but I can't get him to his room to nap 2.00pm and he's asleep, yay!

What should I do!?

[labrodyk]

Slept an hour today 2-2.45 but resettled until 3 then got up. PD at 7.00 and he's asleep at 7.30! Now, how do I get him to do that so I don't have to wake him because that's just a whole different kind of horrible?!

Fever has passed thank goodness and he seems 'well' enough.

[labrodyk]

Hi ladies!!

So, I've been capping the nap at 2-3 after 6.15/6.30 wake ups and a 7pm (asleep by 7.30) bedtime. It worked well for about a week with 11hrs ONS. However, the silliness/overexcited through the day and hyperactive at bedtime makes me think we're getting overtired. He's back to taking 45+ minutes to fall asleep at night too.  Is there anything I can do? Should I bring bedtime back to 6.30 or will this perpetuate ER? Or drop the nap CT?

[jessmum46]

What about a catnap?  We did a 20 min nap for a while and it helped a lot x

[labrodyk]

Hi Katherine!

How do I do that? He's actually quite tired and psycho after lunch and by 1/1.39 but getting him to rest/sleep is just too hard. It's so hard waking him and he really wants to sleep more.

We're also getting some crying out NW at around 4/4.30 - he appears to resettle quickly but I wonder if this an affect of our overall routine or OT/UT?

[jessmum46]

At this point we put her in bed at usual nap time and then tried for 45 mins minimum 'quiet time'. Once she was refusing quite frequently I would still draw the curtains and make it dim, but not totally dark and really talked up a 'quiet time bag' that I would give her once in bed.  Made her pretty excited about going for quiet time!  Just had some quiet toys in eg some picture cards, Russian dolls, stickers, colouring book etc.  I found with that it removed the pressure to sleep so actually sometimes, probably once a week or so she would actually go off to sleep after she'd played a bit.  After 45 mins or longer if she would allow and she was still awake I got her up.  If she seemed ok we pushed on to EBT, if she was tired we took a car trip around 3/3.30 and let her doze off if she wanted for 20 mins.  I found as she was still in light sleep at that point she wasn't too bad to wake whereas any longer she was awful.  I was also surprised it worked for us, until then (Except during 2-1) she was never a car sleeper but it did help us through for a few weeks xx

[labrodyk]

I'm aiming for quiet time but he usually finishes a couple of books I give him and falls asleep!

[bloosiern]

I think you pose a great idea by trying to have him in bed by 0630.  It seems as though his natural WU is 0630 and I've always found the only way to help my LO's get more sleep overnight and be better rested in the morning was to bring BT forward a bit.  You've been so consistent with the 7pm BT long enough and you've said before that later BT leads to the same amount of resistence so perhaps heading in the other direction will help him be better rested the next day.  Some LO's tack on right away but even if he doesn't at first I would stick with it for a few days to let him adjust and see if he will.

One question, does anyone else ever lie him down for nap/BT?  Just wondering if he acts/settles the same with others as he does for you.  I've become so stressed about my LO's sleep lately, depressed too, and I'm sure she picks up on it.  I'm not sure how much that factors in but DH says he can pick up on my tension the minute he walks in the house.

I will say again that our LO's are so much alike:)  We are literally having the exact issues you are having right now and just can't seem to find the right naptime/BT combo to lead to a well-rested toddler.  Before we know it, we will be having to wake them up in their teenage years:)

I'll keep my fingers crossed for you!

[labrodyk]

Thanks ladies!!

Grrrr, 0630 is so damn early but that's not going to work on a 1.5hr nap I doubt. I'm currently sitting in the car - we left at 2.00pm and he fell asleep in 15mins. I'm sticking to 2.00pm not sure if that's good or not. Unfortunately he cried the second he woke at 2.50

I usually put him down for naps. He doesn't necessarily 'resist' nap or bedtime he just takes ages a while to fall asleep. Will lay quietly for his gro clock to turn on or at nap time, fall asleep after the 45-60mins I've allocated. He doesn't just 'not nap' which is a bloody pain in the arse.

Also, is it normal for them to be obnoxious, hyperactive nut cases after capped naps or is that just a regular 3 year old.

[Johnnyha65]

Also, is it normal for them to be obnoxious, hyperactive nut cases after capped naps or is that just a regular 3 year old.

When you asked this question, completely yes!! This is why we have given up on the nap, couldn't cope with the wake up!

My DS is the same his natural wake up seems to be 6:30am after 3 years I'm finally ready to admit defeat and stop trying to make him sleep till the holy 7am!! As Blooslern says I'm working back from that time with regards to BT, he needs at least 11.5hrs  ONS after a normal day, longer on pre-school really physical days so work on that basis for BTs.

Doesn't always work, but I feel better having a plan and sticking to it keeps me that bit more sane! Really hoping I can be abut more relaxed about sleep when this other little one arrives.

[labrodyk]

thanks so much for helping me - we're in such a spot that it's driving me crazy because I don't have the energy to expend with him when he's throwing himself around the room and constantly wringing, tantrumming or just being an obnoxious little brat.

Yesterday he napped in the car from 2.15-3.50. Went out for dinner and he was rude, silly and destructive having several big tantrums on the way home. Got him into bed at 6.50 and he took 30mins to fall asleep at 7.20 but woke after 10.5hrs at 5.50am chatting and singing loudly until he got up at 7.00am.

He needs more sleep but he won't add it to nights and day sleep seems to have various effects on the night sleep he does get (early rising, NW) but then his daytime behavior is horrendous. Grrrrr getting so frustrated.