Author Topic: FTM with 3month old...too late for EASY?  (Read 1362 times)

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Offline JennVanessa1083

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FTM with 3month old...too late for EASY?
« on: September 02, 2015, 20:29:32 pm »
Hi everyone! I am brand new to the forum FTM here and I have loosely implemented the EASY (well tried to); however my LO wasn't taking to it.; some days he would, other days he wouldn't. With growth spurts, it made establishing a routine more difficult. I have been consistent in logging eat, activity, and sleep time. Oh and one more ringer, he only naps 45min-1 hr.  :-\

How can I get him back to EASY and be consistent? ???
Jennifer xx

Offline lauradj

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Re: FTM with 3month old...too late for EASY?
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2015, 21:01:33 pm »
Hi there and welcome to BW!  Around this age 45 min naps can be pretty typical.  Some babies get through the phase in a week, others take a month or so to work through it but it's certainly not unique.  If you could post a typical EASY that would helpful. 
In terms of implementing EASY, the best advice we can give is keep the order; Eat, Activity, Sleep and we'll do our best to help get you through the rough patches.  Consistency really is key though, so your baby knows what to expect of his day.


Offline JennVanessa1083

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Re: FTM with 3month old...too late for EASY?
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2015, 22:22:02 pm »
Thank you, this is the very loose routine so far:

Wake up: 6:30-7
E: 6:30-7
A:
S: 8-9:30 or 10
E: 9:30-10
A:
S:11-11:30 (45min)

After this it gets wonky bc he's not necessarily hungry so I'll do AEAS and then it screws up. Also his routine has been blown to bits by a 3 month growth spurt and traveling so his wake up time has not been consistent which messes with the naps and bedtime. I tried to keep his A between 1 hr 15 min- 1 hr 30 min or when I see tired signs.

Any suggestions on how to get on track?
Jennifer xx

Offline JennVanessa1083

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Re: FTM with 3month old...too late for EASY?
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2015, 15:54:11 pm »
Bumping for advice
Jennifer xx

Offline Martini~

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Re: FTM with 3month old...too late for EASY?
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2015, 17:23:03 pm »
Have you consider sticking to 1:30 A? I am asking as with one shorter A you may cery quickly gry an UT and the whole routine will fall down. His first A is 1:30 but I underway and tang it's 1:00 if he wakes later?
~Marta

Offline JennVanessa1083

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Re: FTM with 3month old...too late for EASY?
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2015, 19:37:34 pm »
I have considered it but even times when I have gotten him to sleep at 1hr 29 minutes, it still results in 45 minute naps. I mean he wakes up happy but I'm wondering if I should extend the A more or I don't know. Maybe if I am more consistent with 1 30 A. Sometimes I put him down as soon as see any sleepy signs so it results in a shorter A like an hour. I'll admit sometimes I miss the window and it will be 1 hr 45 for one nap. Is ot possible if I kiss one window it sets the bar for the rest of the naps?

Today he slept one nap for almost an hour and another for an hour and 15 but I had to resettle him for those.
Jennifer xx

Offline JennVanessa1083

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Re: FTM with 3month old...too late for EASY?
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2015, 19:38:47 pm »
Or maybe my activity time isn't stimulating enough?
Jennifer xx

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Re: FTM with 3month old...too late for EASY?
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2015, 20:14:00 pm »
At 3mo I don't think you can do much stimulating things so I wouldn't worry about it. Have you tried 1:45 for the first A of the day? I have  to say that at 11weeks my rather ASN boy needed longer A and we were doing 3.5h EASY with 1:45-2:00 A times?
~Marta

Offline JennVanessa1083

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Re: FTM with 3month old...too late for EASY?
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2015, 20:44:26 pm »
Making the first A time longer might work. Would it possibly make the first nap shorter? Usually the A time is short and then he sleeps 1 1/2- 2 hours. Or should I start after the first nap. I think the first nap is usually the continuation of his sleep. That's what it seems like. Do I keep A time consistent even if he takes a short nap? Would that make him even more OT? Or do you think it's more of an issue of UT? What does ASN stand for?

Usually my LO is talkative right before his nap or he's on the other side of the spectrum of just fussy but on both occasions he is yawning. Not sure if that info helps.
Jennifer xx

Offline JennVanessa1083

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Re: FTM with 3month old...too late for EASY?
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2015, 21:33:41 pm »
Also what would a sample EASY look like for my day. Ideally I want bedtime to be 7:30 or 8 pm...not sure how to achieve this
Jennifer xx

Offline becj86

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Re: FTM with 3month old...too late for EASY?
« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2015, 02:53:30 am »
ASN = average sleep needs.

Average A times increase from 1.5hr at 3 months to 2hr at 4 months, so about 15min increase every 2 weeks.

How are your nights? I just wonder, as often that first A time being short followed by a decent nap indicates waking frequently or for a long time in the early hours of the morning; or he's shifting his day and the first few hours of the night are spent mostly awake if drowsy.

For BT at 7:30, you're looking at WU around 7/7:30. Days will shift a bit at this age depending on A time length and nap length but really, most of the time if you shoot for a 12-13hr day, it will fall into place ok.

At this age, its worth reducing A time a little if LO takes a short nap to prevent OT but in reality, you don't need to reduce it by much, maybe 15-20min less if nap is 45min long, yk? 

Offline JennVanessa1083

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Re: FTM with 3month old...too late for EASY?
« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2015, 14:32:07 pm »
Thank you for the response! This is all so confusing...ok so at night his bedtime had been really late like anywhere from 9-11 (no consistency). I have tried implementing a bedtime routine around the same time every night usually between 6-7:30 depending on his last nap. Perhaps I need to be more consistent. He averages 2 nw once he's out for the night. However, last last or so it's been more and he's been fighting bed time big time. I thought it may have been a growth spurt. When I try to put him to bed by 7-7:30 he only naps. I have tried to do earlier and later bed times but same thing...naps until his long stretch which doesn't start until 9-11 depending on the night. He wakes up after 3-5 hours for late night feed. Then he wakes up anywhere between 5:00-6:30 for the first feed of the morning and goes straight back to sleep until 7:30-9 depending on the night and the bedtime. So it is a continuation of his night sleep. So first a time can be anywhere from 20 minutes to 50 (after the first feed of the morning). After his big morning nap (usually about 2 hrs or more) the rest of the day it's 35-45 minute naps. In total he does 6-7 catnaps with wake time averaging from 1hr-1hr 30. There are times his awake time is over bc it takes longer for him to put down. He averages 14-15 grog sleep daily.

It's a mess and I really need advice on how to tackle all of this. I'm so tired and I know he isn't getting the rest that he could be getting.
Jennifer xx

Offline becj86

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Re: FTM with 3month old...too late for EASY?
« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2015, 22:51:02 pm »
Perhaps I need to be more consistent
^ This here is the key to everything you do with a baby. Be consistent, make their day predictable - easier for you and for them.

There are a couple of suggestions I'd make:
- Pick a WU time and wake him then, every morning for the first week. BT will be 12-12.5hr after that time.
- Stick with A time of 1.5hr (eyes open to eyes closed, includes feeds, etc.) for the first one and preferably take LO outside during this time - a bit of sunshine helps regulate the body clock and gets you some fresh air :)
- When you PD for night sleep, resettle in his room only - no lights, no taking him out of the room, just run every waking as you would if it were 3am.
- Be ready at both 25-30min and 40-45min into each nap to resettle - much easier to resettle if you're there and catch him when he's stirring than to resettle him from worked up and screaming, yk? That will help him learn to sleep through that transition from sleep cycle to sleep cycle. This is not forever - just for the first few days until you see him managing the transition on his own. It also sets him up to accept this same kind of help as he grows older and needs help through teething, sleep disturbances related to development, etc.

I'd hazard a guess that he's overtired at least and possibly overstimulated at BT. What happens at home in that hour before bed? When DS was little, he would actually shake with excitement when DH got home and we had to keep that time quite low key and have lots of Daddy cuddles to help him calm down enough to sleep.

As a skeleton, your routine may look like this:
7:30 - WU
9 - nap
10:30 - feed
12 - nap
1:30 - feed
3 - nap
4:30 - feed
6 - catnap (45min)
7:30 - BT (as in, in bed asleep, not starting BT routine)

It will change to something more like this by 4 months:
7:30 - WU
9:30 - nap
11 - feed
1 - nap
2:30 - feed
4:30 - nap
6 feed
7:30 - BT
That can happen just by watching the clock to 10min before A time should finish then watching LO for sleep cues and acting on those but putting down for a nap 20min from then if you haven't seen any cues. For example, if WU is 7:30 and you're running at 1:30 A time, start watching LO for sleep cues at 8:50 and put down for a nap even in the of absence of cues at 9:10. The A time then slowly increases more naturally.

Offline JennVanessa1083

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Re: FTM with 3month old...too late for EASY?
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2015, 03:01:14 am »
I see that makes sense...so regardless if he had a bad night I should wu same time everyday right? I can definitely try out these suggestions. How long should I try the before declaring something isn't working?

The hour before bedtime he wakes up from a nap then I feed him. Sometimes we do bath night, in between nights we do a wipe down, then lotion massage (while playing lullabies), dressed in Jammie's, white noise, nurse, sleep. I'll admit the bedtime routine isn't always at the same time. Maybe he's sensitive to OS?
Jennifer xx

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Re: FTM with 3month old...too late for EASY?
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2015, 03:30:52 am »
Hi there!  I'm so sorry I dropped you!  Somehow your post never came up again in my feed  :o
Whatever you change, you need to give it a solid 1-2 weeks before you can be sure of how/if the change is affecting anything.
I agree with PP, you really want to aim for consistency here.  For my kids, I keep a 7-7 schedule, and we are STRICT with keeping that timing.  We trained our families to deal with it.  You could do bath night every night, and just not use soap each time.  I also believe you really need to make sure to start the BT routine at the same time.  For example, I have the bath run for the boys by 6:30 every night.  They bath together, then DS2 is removed, and I diaper and dress him while DS1 gets some tub time to himself. Bath time is done by 6:50.  Then it's in to jammies, two stories, check to ensure all stuffed bunnies and water are in the crib, hugs and kisses and then I take DS2 next door for his bottle and into bed.  That is bed time in our house. 
DS1 is super sensitive to OS and has been that way from the beginning.  He used to cry when he was little, now he just gets super quiet and hangs back until he's ready, or asks to be picked up. 


Offline JennVanessa1083

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Re: FTM with 3month old...too late for EASY?
« Reply #15 on: September 07, 2015, 04:14:51 am »
Haha no worries!

Wow sounds like you have a great routine...so even if they have a bad night, the wake up time is the same?

How do you manage when traveling or away. We are on the right track with my boy but then we went to the grandparents for a couple of days and everything went downhill
Jennifer xx

Offline lauradj

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Re: FTM with 3month old...too late for EASY?
« Reply #16 on: September 07, 2015, 05:16:55 am »
Yup!  When DS2 was still super teeny, 0-3 months, if he had a rough night I would let him sleep in a little (30 mins tops) but now that he's up for 2.5 hours, if I let him sleep it in messes the whole day up!  With a barely 2 yr old as well, we do not mess with the system! ;) 
We haven't done a ton of traveling, mostly just to visit my parents and some friends but my parents just follow our lead and our friends are just as anal about their kids routine so they total get it  :D.  It does mean that we don't get much relaxation on our 'vacations' but they're only this young for such a short period of time, we don't really care.  It would be nice to sleep in until 8am one day....oh to dream of that moment!!  Until then, I live for the moment when the DF is gone and I can go to bed at 9:30 or 10!


Offline JennVanessa1083

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Re: FTM with 3month old...too late for EASY?
« Reply #17 on: September 07, 2015, 21:07:21 pm »
Ok that sounds like a plan...what  about when they are sick. LO has been sick this entire weekend so I haven't started with the WU. Is that ok?

Haha well I'm happy to hear your family and friends understand. I'll probably have a mixed group. I know I will have to assert myself when it comes to his schedule. I guess I can kiss my late morning wake ups goodbye  :o
Jennifer xx

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Re: FTM with 3month old...too late for EASY?
« Reply #18 on: September 07, 2015, 21:16:58 pm »
Ah, when they're sick the whole routine goes out the window.  I let them sleep until they wake up, if they want to nap an hour after they wake up, fine.  If they want to nap for 3 hours, sounds good.  Their bodies need to heal, and sleep helps.
Ironically, I set the wrong alarm this morning and didn't wake until just before 7.  Fortunately, DS1 bashed his water cup around a few times, waking me up.  :D :D :D


Offline JennVanessa1083

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Re: FTM with 3month old...too late for EASY?
« Reply #19 on: September 08, 2015, 04:04:54 am »
Haha what a great way to start the morning!!

I was wondering (now that he is waking up much later since he's been traveling and got sick). Do I just wake him up at 7 or do I gradually get him there? Right now he's waking up at 9 am on average. Not sure how to approach this. 
Jennifer xx

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Re: FTM with 3month old...too late for EASY?
« Reply #20 on: September 08, 2015, 18:49:08 pm »
Also when should I consider extending A time. Today I tried for 1.5 and still got 40-50 minute naps. Both times he fought me so I nursed him down smh. Should I continue with this for a certain time before extending A? Or should I try for longer? LO is about to be 14 weeks on Thursday.
Jennifer xx

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Re: FTM with 3month old...too late for EASY?
« Reply #21 on: September 09, 2015, 03:41:49 am »
Its worth trying the new A time for 2-3 days just to see if the nap extends, especially when he's had short naps for a while - can be just habit initially. It is worth though increasing by 5mins if 1.5hr isn't quite enough and see if that helps.

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Re: FTM with 3month old...too late for EASY?
« Reply #22 on: September 09, 2015, 04:00:07 am »
Yup, I agree with bec with regards to naps.  Also keep in mind it will take a solid week, possibly two before everything irons out.  With regards to the morning WU time, it depends what time he's going to bed.  If bed time is 7pm, he should be ok with you waking him at 7am, as that's a solid 12 hrs of rest.  If you're putting him to bed later, I would suggest moving bed time forward a bit and gradually syncing the two up. 


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Re: FTM with 3month old...too late for EASY?
« Reply #23 on: September 09, 2015, 15:15:14 pm »
Thank you ladies...I'm going to try 1hr 35 min A time and see how that goes for a week. With WU time. I have tried to push up bedtime even with a routine but he wakes up like they are catnaps until he knocks out for the night between 9-11 smh. It was suggested to me to gradually wake him up earlier to shift everything up. So I'm going to start that and hopefully it pushes up BT.
Jennifer xx