Bottle feeding seems so complicated!

[michaeljacknnugg]

I would like to feed BabyTwo 1-2 bottles of formula a day, so I've been reading up a bit. And now I'm scared, breast milk seemed so much easier than this!

What I've seen people with bottle-fed babies do is bring out a bottle of water and a powder dispenser, make up a feed and give it to baby. But reading around, this seems that it poses a health risk, particularly if the water is not hot. And I've not seen people have to cool the bottle...

Ideally I'd feed at room temp, but obviously I'll see how that goes.

So how would this work, particularly when prepping bottles to go out and about? How do you make sure any bugs in the formula powder itself get killed off?

Thanks ladies   :

[Lolly]

If it's only 1-2 feeds a day I would probably buy the ready made cartons. When they are tiny a whole carton will do for 2 feeds and you just keep it in the fridge in-between feeds. When they are bigger they will probably need a whole carton for a feed, some brands sell them in bottles with disposable teats that fit the bottle.

Even if you just use the ready to feed out and about you can feed at room temp. You just need a clean sterilised bottle, fill it when you are ready and feed!

Laura

[Mjh045000]

There isn't a health risk if the water isn't hot, so long as you're on city water.  If you're using well water, you need to boil the water first.  However, normal, city water is just fine.  We warm our baby's formula for her comfort, but it's not necessary.  We've given her warm, room temperature, and straight from the fridge cold water.  She happily takes all of them.

[Lolly]

There isn't a health risk if the water isn't hot, so long as you're on city water. 

That's not true I'm afraid. There is a bacteria that can be present in the powdered formula itself that needs the water to be hot enough when you make the bottle. There are different guidelines in each country for safe water, in the UK the recs are to always use freshly boiled water for bottles. The WHO bottle feeding guidelines also tell you to use freshly boiled water left for no more than 30 mins after it has boiled.

Laura

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

The ready to feed stuff is great, we used it for DD3 when she started taking formula...she did prefer warmer formula though so I tended to bf out and about and do bottle at bedtime at home.

[*Liz*]

It is a bit of a faff when you are used to breast feeding. Thomas is also CMPA so there is no such thing as 'ready to feed'. I have to make them up.

I usually do one of 3 things.

1) Make the feed too hot at home, knowing that I will be feeding in about 45 mins when it will have cooled to about right. Bottle fed babies (especially after 3 months) are pretty predictable in terms of when they will want to feed.

2) I take measured powder, bottle, a flask of hot water and a bottle of cooled boiled water. So to make a feed I put some hot water in the bottle, then add the powder, then top up with cool water so it ends up a room temp. I measure the hot bit in bottle, and the cool part from the other one (once the powder is in you can't use the gauge on the bottle as it increases the volume). That said - you do get used to how much of everything you need to get it right. I usually make 6oz bottles these days - so that means 2oz of hot, 6  scoops and 4oz of cool. It is ready to feed instantly then.

3) If a feed is going to be very soon I might make the feed and pop it in the thermal bag. Like this morning when I made a feed, then drove for 10 mins to a baby thing, but gave him the bottle when I got there.

At home I use the perfect prep machine, so he gets lukewarm bottles all the time. He won't drink cold formula.

[Martini~]

I usually used boiled but not hot water kept in bottle - however I started bottle-feeding after 6mo so I guess their tummy is less sensitive then.

[michaeljacknnugg]

Thanks ladies, very useful as always! I'm aiming to do the 10ish and 1pmish feeds out and about as I feel very uncomfortable feeding in public. I will likely have been out of the house since 8am, with DS to get on his way and the horses to see to.

 Plus it will allow me to swim with DS on a Sat.


I think Liz's #2 suggestion might be my best bet then.

[michaeljacknnugg]

Would I be able to sterilize bottles the night before and boil the water in the morning?

[koe2moe]

Yes, covered sterilised bottles are ok for 24 hours.  I used a microwave box which worked really well.   I was using Liz's number 2 method, too.  However, now that I read it, for the purpose of sterilising the formula, then you really should put a bit more boiling water and shaking it thoroughly before adding cool water.  You will know how much hot and how much cold for how many scoops of formula after several days.  Our formula actually shows a table how much formula it will yield from the amount of water and powder but after shaking there are always so many bubbles that you can't tell from the gauge. 

After 6 months, you can be more relaxed.  HTH

[creations]

I started bottle-feeding after 6mo so I guess their tummy is less sensitive then.

As Laura said, there is a risk of bacteria in the powdered milk which must be killed with very hot water. One of those bacteria is salmonella, I don't think a tummy being less sensitive protects a baby from such bacteria. People are super cautious with cooking eggs but not so cautious with formula.

My personal feeling is that people became confused when the guides changed to making up bottles at each feed rather than the more old fashioned way of making up a full days bottles in the morning like a production line, rapidly cooling, then keeping them in the fridge (bottom back shelf).  The trend now is to make up bottles with pre-boiled but cold water which is not correct as pps have said.
The guides mentioned that if you were going to be unable to make up a bottle at the time of the feed it was fine to pre-make, rapid cool, store cooled (fridge if it was going to be more than something like 45 mins or a cool bag with ice pack if out and about) and use that any time of the day as it lasts many hours that way.  This method does mean the bottle is made in advance but is still safe. It means you can carry less stuff around with you.

If you use the ready made (I did) be prepared for waste. Either decant to 2 or 3 bottles for the day before heading out or take additional sterilized bottles with you to decant into on opening the carton.  I've seen the newer bottles of ready made which look great.  The large cartons of ready made work out a little cheaper, store in the fridge for I think it's 3 days. I used to pour a bottle just before heading out and about and serve room temp (or rather hand bag temp!).  I also kept a few small cartons in the car so could take out just 1 or 2 sealed sterilized empty bottles if there was a risk of being delayed whilst out etc.

breast milk seemed so much easier than this!

Yes on the surface BF does seem so much easier in terms of the milk being perfectly ready and available but for people like me who struggled terribly to BF I became aware it is not physically easy for everyone.  I was gutted when I had to get bottles, formula and all that but you get into the swing of things quite quickly.

[michaeljacknnugg]

I know, creations, it's not easy for everyone and was hellish at the start for us. Hoping it's all a bit smoother this time!

[Martini~]

You know girls, we talked about it so many times. I know what WHO says - milk should be done with 70C water. Still in my country reco is to use 37-40C water - and it's written on every single pack of branded formula powder. I am not recommending anyone should do it like me, I am just saying what I did and what every single women in my country does and here in my country, this is fine. However we use milk immediately after preparing - nobody storage milk for even a sec.

How I read WHO recommendations is, I can use chilled water - but than I cannot storage in refrigerator. With milk prepared with 70C water you can storage in the fridge for 24h.

Helen - have you seen that?
http://www.who.int/foodsafety/publications/micro/PIF_Bottle_en.pdf

[*Liz*]

I think you just get used to your way of doing things really - since I use a perfect prep machine I am used to making them up as I go and so when I am out and about I replicate the same. I find it takes too long waiting for a feed to warm up in hot water (because I am used to having it correct straight away really - I know it only takes 5-10 mins really  ).

Bottles in public are easier especially once they hit the distractable stage, as you just hold them on your knee and follow their head if they move, rather than ending up with a failed feed and horribly exposed. From 4 months I always had to be at home to feed my previous 2 else they missed the feed and reverse cycled at night. I've never had that issue with Thomas  .

For a busy family life they do have a lot of versatility. Now he is older one of my older kids can help him to feed sitting in the pushchair etc. I don't do things like that often, but I do sometimes  . Poor Thomas is such a 3rd baby some days.....

Just make sure your change bag is big enough. I actually use a rucksack instead now.

[michaeljacknnugg]

I've bought a packapod one, seems pretty big. DS wants to feed the baby, that's not a bad thing, surely?

[koe2moe]

With milk prepared with 70C water you can storage in the fridge for 24h.

That's also a good point that you could prepare it at home with hot water and bring it with you at room temperature and add a bit of hot water to it to bring to body temperature. 

I think it is great that DS is interested in helping out. 

[Buttonbobs]

Once we really got into the swing of things we used to make up a bottle with the powder, boiled water added to the powder and swirled to mix, and then cooled it with pre-cooled boiled water. I probably didn't do this until E was older and I worked out the amount of water needed with the powder already in the bottle but it really helped.

I also had a flask for carrying around boiled water for a couple of hours and used pre measured bits of powder.

I would imagine the pre mixed would be much easier for the early weeks (you could always use a flask to warm it if also isn't keen on it cold.

I remember my feeling of deep dread when I realised DD wasn't managing with BF. I remember my friend coming over and talking me through the process 3 or 4 times before I got it, but once I got used to be routine of sterilising etc it was easy really.

[michaeljacknnugg]

Thanks girls. Like you say, pre made for the early days will probably be a good idea. And maybe it will help me see if it is the right thing for us, too, before having to come down on one side or other of the fence.

[*Liz*]

I've bought a packapod one, seems pretty big. DS wants to feed the baby, that's not a bad thing, surely?

Packapod are great. I only discovered them with Thomas was about 7 months and it just doesn't seem worth it at this point. They are very tempting though!

No - I don't think it is bad to let an older child feed a little bit. Even when Thomas was teeny I would give the bottle to one of them to start his feed while I threw their breakfast on the table - little babies drink very slowly anyway . It is the winding etc that they can't manage of course. My comment was more about bottle feeding with the baby sat in the buggy or car seat - I know BFing sources frown on it - but when you are stuck somewhere with nowhere to sit it can be done !!

[michaeljacknnugg]

Sure DS had his cup of milk in the buggy at that age - it sounds ok to me! Everyone's different and the recs do throw in more mama guilt than I'm happy with - but stuff like bacteria in formula sounds high up on the 'to avoid' list, particularly if I am bottle feeding those feeds by choice (hoping this will be the case).

[Buttonbobs]

I can only imagine having more than one LO, but if we did have a second E would be slightly older, and I can imagine it would help her to be involved if she was allowed to feed the baby, even if she was supervised to begin with. Are there recs stating it is a bad thing?

[Lolly]

Are there recs stating it is a bad thing?

I don't think so! I guess it's more of a common sense thing that you wouldn't leave a child feed a baby without your close supervision and being right at hand, it's a nice bonding thing with a new sibling I think!

Laura

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

M and S were the only ones E would take a bottle from at first! Lol even DH had no luck. Masyn was 7.5 at the time and was able to burp her as long as I was right there to grab the bottle and hand over a burp cloth.

[*Liz*]

I've never seen any recs saying that a child shouldn't feed. I think propped up in the child seat is prob a bit of a choke hazard really, but obviously we were always there and could lift him for a wind etc if needed.

I always felt bad somehow - seems like it is just me though - I felt like I ought to stop and hold and feed the baby properly. But of course he is my third and life wasn't like that for us. Goodness knows I spent hours feeding him properly at home because of his reflux, so def my issue really I think  . Yet another example of the guilt of a mama who wasn't BFing  .

[michaeljacknnugg]

Hugs Liz. I found at that age my DS (who'd just started to take a cup of milk) was very ready to be more independent with his feeding. One of the older ones giving him that bit of assistance is a nice middle ground, imo.