Author Topic: almost 4 months - everyday became mess  (Read 1709 times)

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Offline Kasianie

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almost 4 months - everyday became mess
« on: September 07, 2015, 12:06:06 pm »
Ok. So my LO is almost 4months old. He is bf. When I was pregnant i read BW and I tried to implement EASY from the begining. Everything was more or less fine until last month.
At the begining he was eating every 2,5h, then every 3 hours, waking up twice at night to feed.
Now everything is a mess. He wants to eat sometimes every two hours, and sometimes after 3,5h he is not intrested. He is waking from naps after 40mintutes almost always. And he is waking up at night a lot. Like every two or every three hours.
Two weeks ago I took his dummy away cause he was adicted (succes stories from this forum gave me courage). After one day of crying everything was ok.

I thought: ok, he is almost four months, it's time to transit to 3,5 hours EASY. So I tried and it was ok for two days and then mess again.

So my question is: should I try to get him "back on track" gently, or should I just use the metod from the book for babies that never had EASY plan and go with the clock for a week or so?

His last three days:

4.09
WU 7:25
E 7:30
S 9:10-9:30 (in bed after 1h40A)
E10:05
S 10:20-11:10
E 11:55
S 12:35-13:05 (in bed after 1h15A), 13:35-14:45
E15:10
E 17:45
BT 18:20
DF 23:50
NW: 20:20, 21:05 (bf), 23:00, 1:20, 3:10(bf), 5:30, 6:25 (bf)

05.09
WU 8:20 (I know I know... but after night like this I was really on the edge)
E 9:50
S 10:10-10:45 (in bed after 1h45A), 11:20-11:30, 11:35-12:15
E 12:40
S 13:25-14:15 (in bed after 1h5A)
E 15:05
S 16:35-17:15 (in bed after 1hA, but trouble with falling asleep)
E 18:00
E 18:35
BT 18:40
DF 22:30
NW: 19:45, 22:30 (DF), 1:30, 2:45 (bf), 5:45 (bf)

6.09
WU 7:15
E 8:45
S 9:15-9:40 (in bed after 1h45A)
E 11:35
S 11:55-13 (in bed after 2h5A)
E 14:25
S 14:40-15:20 (in bed after 1h30A)
E 16:35
E 18:50
BT 19:05
DF 22:10
NW: 22 (DF), 2:10 (bf), 4:20-5:40 (bf)


Typically he is faling asleep after 10 minutes.

Sorry for all the gramma and other mistakes  :-X


Please - any advice?


Offline Martini~

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Re: almost 4 months - everyday became mess
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2015, 14:23:59 pm »
Hi Honey, nice to see someone from my country here:).

In general his activity time is very short. It's also good to know that a child may be ready to transite to 4h EASY from A time perspective, but not ready from feeding perspective. When I was transitioning DS to 3.5h, it was the most messy transition we did. DS wasn't hungry after 3h, so I thought time to move to 3.5h. But at 3.5h he was extremely hungry - so for couple of days I was feeding him from both breasts and it seemed still not enough. We also came back to one more NW. After couple of days, my supply adjusted and he started to eat every 3.5h. In genral when DS was 9-10weeks he stopped NFs, but they came back after 3mo growth spurt and stayed until he was 6mo and we introduced solids. It's worth knowing that many children increase number of NFs after 3mo growth spurt.

Your naps seems to be short as your A seems to be short. 2h is a target for an average sleep needs baby and you are having much shorter A sometimes. I know that we encourage to shorten A after a short nap but if you start from a too short A and your first nap is UT 30-45min it's very difficult then to get back on track. Can you start working on morning A to make it longer?

Re feeds - if he is not ready for 4h session, which is perfectly normal for a baby who is EBF, you may consider feeding him either 30min after 1st feed (milk is the fatest) or 30-35min before a nap to make sure his tummy is full. After couple of days, your supply may increase and maybe normal 4h routine will be fine.
~Marta

Offline Kasianie

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Re: almost 4 months - everyday became mess
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2015, 15:19:21 pm »
I'll try to keep him awake for two hours for his first A and maybe an hour and a half after short naps, what do you think?
With feeding the problem is that he is easly distracted and making breaks in eating to look around, smile to me... Everything is more intresting than eating. So I supose that he prefers to eat at night while sleeping. I'll try to be more patient with him, feed with both breasts as often as he wants - if it won't help in... two weeks? two weeks will be okay? So if it won't help in two weeks then I'll try to fix it somehow. You are probably right - I need to increase my  supply.

I think can't start tomorrow - something is in the air.. I'm not sure if he started teething or catch a cold - he is crying a lot today and he really want to sleep all-the-time. Normally he is very happy baby, smiling a lot and almost no crying even when very tired, so something must be wrong.
I hope that's not teeth cause he isn't able yet to put anything exept of his fingers into his mouth.

Offline Martini~

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Re: almost 4 months - everyday became mess
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2015, 05:53:49 am »
Keeping fingers crossed for you:)!

Re shorter A after short naps, you have to judge by yourself. I usually didn't shorten A at that age after short naps if they were UT as I was afraid of another UT nap. What I did was the same A as usual, risking OT next nap - but my DS was manageable at that age in terms of resettling so that was an option.
~Marta

Offline Kasianie

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Re: almost 4 months - everyday became mess
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2015, 07:24:52 am »
"Re shorter A after short naps, you have to judge by yourself. I usually didn't shorten A at that age after short naps if they were UT as I was afraid of another UT nap. What I did was the same A as usual, risking OT next nap - but my DS was manageable at that age in terms of resettling so that was an option."

Hmm. Maybe I'll try this? For couple of days to see if it works?

Now I have an urgent question: today he woke at 6:40 and we puted him into bed at 8:20 (so 1h40 A), he fall asleep after 5 minutes..! He woke up after 30 min. He isn't crying, he is very calm and smiling a little bit. Is 30min always OT or could it be UT? How long should I keep him awake? I have problems with reading his clues - when he was younger he was yawning, but now he isn't. I know when he is very OT but I have problems with those early signs.

Offline Kasianie

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Re: almost 4 months - everyday became mess
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2015, 08:16:08 am »
Ok he showed clear signs of sleepnes so I feed him, he ate a lot. I'm trying to increase my supply.
Then I waited 10 minutes and started nap-time routine. So he fall asleep after 1h20minA. Yesterday he was crying a lot, I think if today will be ok I'll start tomorrow bedtime routine after 1h45A so +5min of routine + 10min falling asleep it should be 2h.

He will be 4 months tomorrow :-)

Offline Kasianie

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Re: almost 4 months - everyday became mess
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2015, 07:12:04 am »
I tried to keep him awake two hours but after an hour he was soooo sleeeepyyy... I'm not sure but maybe he is tired after NW? Some of them are I supose quite long - I'm not sure. I sleep in another room and I came to him only when I hear cry, but many times I hear him blabling. Then I fall asleep and half an hour later he wakes me up crying. And at the morning he is sleepy. Heh.

Last night:
BT 18:45,
NW: 22:25 (DF), 1:30 (bf), 4:05 (bf), 6:00
WU 7:00

Offline Martini~

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Re: almost 4 months - everyday became mess
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2015, 08:42:10 am »
Yes, he is sleepy. I know but that's why you have to push his day activity time.
~Marta

Offline Kasianie

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Re: almost 4 months - everyday became mess
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2015, 10:01:09 am »
The problem is with his first activity. After an hour he is crancy and crying a little no matter what we are doing. It's like he thinks it's night?
The second A time today was 1h45 no problem and he slept for an hour.

I supose I should give it more time to change  ::) But I can see progress  :)

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Re: almost 4 months - everyday became mess
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2015, 10:06:36 am »
Yes honey and you are totally right. The problem is that his NW can be a reason for his tiredness in the morning. There are  two things you may consider:
1/ instead of pushing nap just cap it so he is not sleeping long on it
2/ work on longer A here but with low stimuli like morning walk in a stroller, a lot of baby wearing

Whay do you think?

Can you please post your routine once again after last couple of days?
~Marta

Offline Kasianie

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Re: almost 4 months - everyday became mess
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2015, 10:25:04 am »
08.09

WU 6:40
E 7:15 (he was fed at 5:10am)
S 8:25-8:55 (30min)
E 9:45
S 10:15-10:55 (40 min)
E 11:50
S 12:35-14:20 (1h45  :)  )
E 14:40
S 16:15-16:45 (30 min, woke up by sneeze?)
E 17:10
E 18:30
BT 18:40
NW: 22:30 (DF), 1:30 (bf), 4:05 (bf), 6:00

09.09
WU 7:00
E 7:05
S 8:25-9:05 (40min)
E 9:40
E 10:15
S 10:55-12:00 (1h5min)
....we will see.

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Re: almost 4 months - everyday became mess
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2015, 11:33:33 am »
Honey his first nap is definitely too early. Try to push gently every couple of days til at least 9am. Maybe  make this morning A lazy, go for a walk in a pram - light and fresh air should help. I would try pushing this nap slowly by 10min increments every 3 days, until from 8:30am you reach 9am.
~Marta

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Re: almost 4 months - everyday became mess
« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2015, 07:30:53 am »
Hi Hon, how it's going? I read on other thread that it's getting a bit better:)? That would be a great news!
~Marta

Offline Kasianie

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Re: almost 4 months - everyday became mess
« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2015, 15:23:14 pm »
Well I'm working on first A time and going with the flow for the rest of the day.
Today first A was 1h45min and after this 30min nap. Yesterday was similar. I'll try tomorrow the same and maybe monday 2h. Sometimes it's hard cause I'm not always sure when he is waking up.
The rest of the day I'm following his clues so most of the A time is 1h30 after short nap and 2h after long nap (not many of them). I think he should be wake up longer and we are slowly going this direction.
His nights and feedings are better. I can feel I increased my supply by feeding all-day-long last couple of days so today he spaced his feedings and he is not waking up at night so much - I DF (not realy cause he started to wake for this) and then 2 or 3 NW with 2 feeds.

I'm more aware that sometimes he is not sleepy but just bored ;-) and I'm learning to understand him better.

Offline Kasianie

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Re: almost 4 months - everyday became mess
« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2015, 07:29:28 am »
So he spaced his feeding just to wake more at night to eat  >:( 
I'm confused. My sytuation is exacly like from the book - Tracy writes that about 4 months we are making routine change becouse baby need to eat more and have longer A times. If we won't change the baby starts to NW and other problems. But my LO definitly can't be fed so rarely - it's increasing his NW. I gues that's becouse of distraction - everything is intresting and it is very, very hard to keep him on the breast. He is eating until he is not very hungry and want to do another stuff. Twice I kept him 4 hours between feeds (thought that when very hungry he will eat more) but it didn't help - he ate as much as usual and after two hours was hungdy again...
I read "how Tracy helped Debbie with 45 min naps" and she is writing that she was feeding every four hours with top up after an hour - I'm trying this now.

He just fall asleep after 1h50 A. And now I have question: like every two weeks you should move his A time about 15min - but can I do this if after so long A time he is taking 30min naps (OT?) or should I wait for them to be at least 40min (OT/UT?)? Becouse now his first naps are mostly 30 min and I'm not sure how long I should wait until another A extension.

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Re: almost 4 months - everyday became mess
« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2015, 05:54:23 am »
You are right that 30min naps are often OT but some kiddos will do UT ones lasting 30min. So yes I would push the A gently. how long is the second nap? After 1.5h A and 30min nap?

Re feeding some of Tracy's advice is outdated now and we believe if she lived she would update it. One point is that some ebf kids don't manage to go to 4h between feeds. Mine could but I was cluster feeding until 5/6mo when I introduced bottle and solids. So you may try feeding him twice during A time, either shortly after first feed or just 30mkn before sleep. You also may keep 4h if that suits him, but feed him around 3, 5 and 7pm - that's what I did.
~Marta

Offline Kasianie

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Re: almost 4 months - everyday became mess
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2015, 11:32:48 am »
We are ok. Last days were good - I managed to keep him awake 1.45/2 hours at the morning, and at the begining he was crying "I'm tired!" after 1h20 but I kept him awake - we were smiling at each other etc and he was waking up after 30min (I think it was OT) but now he is ok for almost two hours and is sleeping 1h20  8)
He is 4 months and 1 week now. Should I move A time another 15min? Or wait a little?

I'm feeding when I see that he is hungry and then topping up one hour after the feed - today was the first night he woke only once to eat  8)

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Re: almost 4 months - everyday became mess
« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2015, 12:23:43 pm »
Happy for you Honey!

Re naps - I would stay with current A for couple of days, his naps may still lengthen. He is having two longer ones now and a catnap?
In general around 6 month his A will be around 2.5-3h so in next 8-9 weeks you will need to push slowly towards that A time. You will go from 3 naps to 2 of 1.5-2h. So just look closely at him and think if there is any need for a push.

Re hunger, that's a great news. You may stop feeding him after 1h if you see he is totally not interested - but if he is sleeping better with current feeding routine, I wouldn't worry. Around 6mo you are introducing solids and that's also a good moment to ger rif of that top-up feeds and replace them with some solid meal - and leaving solid routine of 4 breast feeds a day.
~Marta

Offline Kasianie

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Re: almost 4 months - everyday became mess
« Reply #18 on: September 23, 2015, 09:04:18 am »
So instead of lengthening the naps he is shortening them again. After five days od naps longer than an hour (usualy 1h20min) he has again 40 and 30 min. Uhh. I'm keeping him awake 1h50-2h10 (I'm trying to read his cues) and no matter how long A is - sometimes after 2h10 he is sleeping 1h20 and sometimes 35min.  Should I push it 2h20? I'm not sure...

And he is refusing to eat during the day - he stopped geting top ups. He just won't. All calories he wants to take at night..... Hope it's temporary.

When he will be 5 months we are slowly introducing solids - I'm working again when he will be six and our doctor told us to introduce solids earlier, when I'm still at home and can bf a lot. Hope it will help.

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Re: almost 4 months - everyday became mess
« Reply #19 on: September 23, 2015, 14:50:37 pm »
I personally wouldn't introduce solids earlier but it's your choice. I also was going back to work at 6mo and F was in the nursery and I think we started with one small meal at 5.5mo.

Re activity - yes, I would push to 2:15-2:20 if he is shortening the naps.
~Marta