14 month old sleep gone so wrong please help!!!

[NinNic]

I don't know where to start. Been trying to solve issue on my own without writing here for a while, but I honestly don't know what to do anymore!!!  Really need some advice here!

I started shifting LO to 1 nap when she turned 1, now I'm thinking it might have been a mistake pushing her too far too early. She already had around 14 hr days with nap in am and CN in pm, days were really getting long to fit it all in. I tried 1 nap as she was getting harder to apop for CN and she already had 5 hr A time in am (was counting A from when I walked into her room instead of her waking, which might have been a mistake). I started with nap at 11 am and pushed it to 12 pm over a short period of time, meaning if she woke at 6 am (usually wakes 6-6:30 am) she would have 6 hr A time, which I realize now is way too much for her!! She would sleep for about 1.5-2 hrs and then BT around 6-60 pm when she had nap around 11-11:30 am and BT 7-7:30 when she slept 12 pm nap. She would go down fine for naps and at BT. After a while after I had pushed nap to 12 pm she would start waking middle of her nap and I so many times had to pat her back to sleep and continue patting even when she did fall asleep as she would wake again. Think patting has become a prop for her now. So on and off she would sleep her nap fully or wake and I having to pat her or she wouldn't fall back to sleep again. She would wake earlier in morning meaning she would have less than 11 hr sleep at night.

In mid Aug she was waking early around 5-6 am so decided to put her to bed around 11 am so she had 5 hr A time and put in CN again around 3:30 pm, but it took her 20-30 mins to fall asleep and then it took her around 45 mins-1 hr to fall asleep at BT around 7:30 pm and then waking around 5 am, which meant 10.5 hrs sleep at night. After about 5 days of CN and not enough sleep at night I decided to skip CN and do early BT instead around 5-6 pm, which meant she did sleep for 12-12.5 hrs at night. Her nap was still messy with early wake up from nap and me having to pat her. Before she would actually fall back to sleep but lately she doesn't, which means she has anywhere from 1-1 h 20 min nap, would then put her to bed a bit earlier. It was taking her longer to fall asleep for her nap and at BT around 1 hr!!!

For the past 3 days things have become really bad. She has also started waking after 2-3 hrs after BT being awake for 1.5 hrs first day, second day patted her so she would fall asleep quicker and last night even with patting took her almost an hour to fall asleep. It also took her 2.5 hrs to fall asleep at BT last night crying and crying nothing helping!!! In the night I can hear her not sleeping deep sleep making noises almost like she is awake. This morning she woke 4:30 am, put her down for an early nap at 9 am and slept for 30 mins, nap at 12:30 pm, but was crying and didn't fall asleep until 1:40 pm and woke after 30 mins crying!!!

She had MMR vaccine a while ago and started showing symtoms with fever and rash on Tuesday, fever is gone but still has some rash. Dunno if this can have something to do with sleep?? Can learning to walk be the affect of all this or does it really look like she is very OT??

Also feel it is hard to know exactly when she is getting tired and even if she does rub her eyes not getting her into bed in time? Sometimes she rubs her eyes around 3-4 pm, sometimes I have tried to apop her when she does to see if she goes down for CN in pram (always do CN in pram or she won't fall asleep), but lately she won't even after 30 mins!

Please please help!!! I'm really feeling desperate as I don't know what to do from now on!!

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

How have the last few days gone? With ew's at this age, doing a nap so early in the day is sort of just tacking on to the night sleep and reinforces the ew. While she may not be ready for 6h A time, she may still be ready to go to.one nap. Sounds ot right now though, does any sort of apop work to get her back to sleep if she ew?

[NinNic]

We didn't try to get her back to sleep for EW that day as it's almost impossible to get her back to sleep.

Things are better, but not great. She has been practicing standing up and walking since the weekend so this might have disrupted her sleep and fact that it has taken her so long to fall asleep for nap and BT. What do you think? I'll post 2 last days of EASY. For now I´m putting her down for nap at 11 am so she has around 5 hrs A in am, just to get her over the OT and putting her to bed after 5.5 hr A time in pm as I've noticed that is around what she needs after 1.5 hr nap. Then I want to start pushing her day to have a WU at 6:30 at least. How long do you think I should keep 11 am nap before starting to push nap and how do I do it?

I feel that with a lot of trial and error, she needs around 12 hr day at moment with 1.5 hr nap as she sleeps for around 12 hr at night to get her over 13 hrs that she needs. If I put her later to bed, which I've tried so many times in the past she just sleeps less and even 11 hrs not enough for her right now.

Took her over 35 mins to fall asleep for nap today, just standing up in bed and then after about 30 mins starting to cry so had to pat her to get her to sleep. I don't get it, is she not tired enough or is learning to walk disturbing her?

Sat:
WU 5:30 am (slept 11.5 hrs without waking)
S 10:15-11:55
BT put to bed 16:25 fell asleep 17:20 (should probably put to bed around 17, realized after put to bed a bit too early)
Woke for a few mins 23:00 fell asleep again

Sun:
WU around 6:10
S 11:06-12:25 slept for 1 hr 20 min so not full nap
BT put to bed 17:25 fell asleep 18.04

Mon:
WU around 6 am
S put down 10:49 fell asleep 11:25 after patting for 2 mins woke 12:45 slept for 1 hr 20 min so not full nap

[NinNic]

Just adding whats happened since yesterday:

Yesterday (Mon) BT 17:47 asleep 18:18 ( bern a long time since only taken her 30 min to fall asleep)
Today WU around 6:30
S 11:18 took only 5 mins to fall asleep (usually for long time now takes longer to settle for nap) rubbing eyes a lot just before put down, but woke 11:56 got back to sleep 12:26 havent woken yet its 13:10

Just so confused about her am A time or of it is learning to walk affecting sleep?!
 
As she slept until 6:30 am this morning and didnt fall asleep for nap until 11:25 yesterday that it would be ok to have nap around 11:30 am and not 11 am.

She doesnt seem as OT as before but might still be.

What do I do for now for her nap time??

[NinNic]

Can someone pls help! Sorry to be bothering with long postings but have not got a lot of advice.

[First mum]

Hi NinNic, have you seen the forum about transitioning to 1 nap?  I find it really useful reading through the different links.  They are not always relevant to my situation but have found them really helpful.

My LO started the transition about 14 months to 1 nap and as we never really got clear tired signs I have always stuck with a set nap schedule.  I also found that anything I tried I had to stick it out for a week to see how she responded. 

I know the ew are horrid and we had them for what felt like ages, regardless of the time she does not come out of the cot and her room until 6am at the earliest.  Every attempt to get her back to sleep or just my presence to keep her calm and quiet until its time to get up. Unless it was horribly early our set nap is always 11:30am some days I need to keep her really busy and active, other days the mornings just fly by.  With her naps my optimum is 90 minutes.  If I get 90 minutes bedtime is 6:30pm, anything less than 90 minutes (daycare and illness) and we have an ebt of 6pm.  Sometimes she will tack on, other times we have an ew and it feels like a horrible cycle but I just stick with it.  etb is always my go to if I think she is not getting enough overall sleep. 

Have you tried a cn in the morning.  I found them really good just to give her a bit of a boost.  Regardless of wu it was at 9am and capped at a maximum of 15 minutes, then normal nap time of 11:30.  I became very good at planning activities for her (library, park, coffee date) that needed a car journey at this time as the cot and pram just didn't work.

I also find patting at this age disturbed my lo more than helped.  If she does need help I just leave my hand resting on her bottom with the occasional shush or I just sit beside the cot with the occasional shush.

Sorry my response is a bit all over the place.  I hope some of it is helpful.

[NinNic]

Thanks a lot for advice First mum. 

I´m just really confused with her nap time. Today she woke 6:10, put her down for nap at 10:54 fell asleep 11:11. Let's see how long she sleeps. I´m trying to stick with set nap time, but find it difficult as she seems not to last that long if she wakes early even if she wakes 6:30 she still doesn't sleep her nap.

If she sleeps for 1h 20 mins-1.5 hrs she needs 5.5 hrs A to bed. I have tried so many times putting her to bed earlier so she doesn't have too long of a day, but doesn't work- she simply won't fall asleep until 5.5 hrs A. I find 12 hr day is max for her, then she sleeps for 12 hr, which is good. If she wakes during nap, which she does all the time now, it takes time to get her back to sleep and still have to count 5.5 hrs A from when she wakes, which made her day longer than 12 hrs and only slept about 11 hrs, which is not enough. If she sleeps longer than 1.5 hrs she needs even more than 5.5 hrs. Is this really normal for her age??

CN doesn't work, used to do in pm, but she won't fall asleep anymore, also makes her day too long anyways and less night sleep.

Oh she wants the patting not just hand on her back. 

Do I just stick to around 11 am nap? For past 2 days did 11:25 and 11:18, but she woke early form nap.

Do a lot of kids have much shorter A in am and longer in pm?

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

It is really normal for the day to lengthen near the end of the 2-1 switch as they still need two naps but also need more A time to get the naps in, and then eventually when on one nap the nights get longer again.  Sorry for not being able to reply sooner, my work and the kids appts have kept me tied up the last few days and I keep falling asleep on the couch before I get any time on BW! Needing a longer A time to bed can be normal for a lot of kids...I am trying to recall, I think DD3 did 5.5/6 hrs A before and after her nap at that age. Even my middle DD who was higher sleep needs like a long A time to bed.

[NinNic]

Thanks for your reply! Sorry you are so busy.

Do you think I should stick to set nap at around 11-11:15 for a while and see if nap stabilizes?

If she starts taking longer naps than 1.5 hrs at some point, does that mean her pm A will be even longer than 5.5-6 hrs? From all EASY I have seen for older kids they all seem to have much shorter A in pm. I mean if nap is at around 12:30-1 pm that will make BT really late with around 6 hr A time. How was it with your kids?

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

My kids were all different...DD2 and DD3 needed longer A times to bed, where DD1 was pretty average. Set naps can be a good tool at this age as it gives some.predictability, though it may take some time to establish it and have it lengthen.