UPDATE 20mo - bedtime shenanigans & EW STILL - now nap time shenanigans too!!!

[Mackjack]

Hi.

I just cannot seem to take my eye off the ball for one second with this kid.  I was posting on another thread for ages as DS for months was taking ages to fall asleep at BT - stripping, throwing everything out of cot etc until he would eventually start whinging and we would have to go in ( he would nod off on his own in the end though)- and then he would EW too. So his nights could sometimes only be 10 hrs. 9 times out of 10 he would go down for his nap fine and we would cap it at 2 hrs. So his EASY was like this:

WU between 5.30 - 6.15 (6.15 would be a good day! )

S 11.30/12 for 2 hrs capped

BT - in bed around 6.45/7 - mess about for around an hr every night so asleep about 8
 
Then we had a glorious week away where for some reason he would either go straight to sleep at BT or mess about but not need us to go into his room at all. And he would wake after 6am. It was fab! But he reverted to normal as soon as we got home.

At the wknd I accidentally woke him from his nap at 1hr 15. He messed around at BT as usual that night but - shock! - he slept til 7am the next day! ! Amazing! So I thought it was worth experimenting with this length nap for a few days.  For the first few days he slept in every morning (6.30am-6.50) but I he was also messing around at nap time. At first he messed around at nap time but went down pretty easily at BT. Then he messed around for both but woke at a reasonable time. Now he messes around for both AND wakes up early (about 6). I should say that after the 1hr 15 naps he does look tired and wants a cuddle for a long time afterwards but is otherwise fine. So yes I guess the shorter naps could be causing OT but for goodness sake, longer naps don't work either!!!!

So when I stared the shorter naps EASY was

WU 6.30

S 30mins/1hr messing about -asleep between 12.30/13.00 capped at 1hr 15

BT minimal messing about or straight to sleep - asleep by 7.30pm

Now EASY is more like:

WU 6am

S mess about for an hr, asleep by 13.00

BT mess about for an hr or more, asleep by 20.00

What should I do? ?

By the way,  I've only been doing the shorter naps for a week.

[Haribo2012]

Hi, I'd personally push that nap a bit later so he's more ready for sleep and keep it capped then make BT a bit earlier so lights off ready to sleep by 7pm if up at 6am.

You could be in a bit of an UT/OT cycle, so UT at nap but then as its capped OT by BT so lots of faffing about.x

[Mackjack]

Hi Haribo. Thanks for your reply.  So do you think push nap to about 13.00 ?

Day before yesterday he went to sleep at 20.00 and woke at 6am. Because he had a short night, I tried to get him down for his nap a but earlier.  He went straight to sleep at 12.05. I woke him at 13.20. Then that night i put him down a little earlier and he played with his teddy for a bit but was asleep at 19.00. And he slept til 6.40am this morn- amazing night!  Do you think this was just because he was v tired from the night before?

Didn't really know what to do today after such a good night and late ( for him! ) wu. So i put him down at 12.30 and he faffed til 13.10. Woke him at 14.25. In bed tonight at 19.00 and I think he's just settled (19.30). Does any of that confirm what you think? I cant see the woods for the trees most days. ...

[Haribo2012]

I'd go for 12.45/1pm and if he wakes early just bring it forward by 15 mins or so.

Looking at your last 2 days the first one he settled really quickly with a 13 hour day and today if he's asleep at 7.30 then that's a 13 hour day thereabouts.

I think if you stick at a 12.5/13 hour day on a 1.15/1.5 hr nap around 6 hours from WU then you might see things settle a bit...as your awake times will be a bit more balanced.

At 2 yrs old my DS was regularly napping at 1pm for 1.5 hours until we had to cap further when more faffing about started.

The way I always think is if he's happy and messing then he's not tired enough so we need to have a fiddle with times x

[Mackjack]

Sounds like good advice,  thank you. I'll follow those timings and see what happens.... will let you know!

[Haribo2012]

Good luck see what happens over 3/4 days x

[Mackjack]

I'm trying what you said but it doesn't seem to be working. He is messing about at nap and bedtime still. Stripping off. And I have no choice but to go in his room and re-dress him when he does that as if he has access to his nappy he will take it off.

He has been a bit poorly the past couple of days (cold and teething) and has twice woken at 4am upset.  I've given meds and then he's taken ages to get back to sleep but slept in a little til about 6.45. But even then, when I've settled him and given meds he STILL takes the opportunity to start taking his clothes off!!! And then still messed about at nap and BT. It just seems whether he's OT/UT/ill/whatever, he will mess about and I'm so sick of it. I really shouted at him tonight out of utter frustration after he had stripped off and thrown everything out of his cot and he just laughed at me. This has been going on for months. What makes it worse is that at this age, DD was a dream - she would actually ask for her nap and BT, go down with no fuss, nap for 3 hours and sleep 11 hours at night, no problem at all. And she was on that routine for absolutely ages. I know you can't expect two babies to be the same and I know a routine like hers is very rare but it just makes me feel like a failure with him. I really thought if I followed all the BW principles again with baby no 2, things would be ok. I feel totally defeated.

[Haribo2012]

Hugs Hun, these little ones just like to keep us guessing don't they, sorry things haven't improved.

It could be developmental along with teeth, we had lots of weird sleep due to language explosion, 2 year molars.

Your in no way a failure, kids come with no instruction manual and they certainly never do what you think they should.

I'd just try and stick to what your doing, if he's stripping off just re dress him with minimal chit chat, just say no it's bedtimes now, time for sleep...!

not much help Hun but try not to let it get you down x

[Mackjack]

Thanks Haribo. I think you're right - this has been going on so long now, I don't think there's much I can do that I haven't already tried. I'm almost wishing he would drop his nap really early - at least that way, all I've got to work out is BT. Not nap time/length as well. There are just too many combinations of nap time/length and BT to try!! x

[Haribo2012]

I must admit no naps for us are so much easier, we prob started to think about cutting it down at this age....some do drop naps early so it's not beyond possible it could be happening with your DS.
Could just be coming up to birthday shenanigans too x

[Mackjack]

Really?  What sort of routine was your LO on at this age - do you remember? He just seems to chop and change so frequently. As i mentioned in my first post, at the beginning of September we went on hols for a week and he was brilliant - going down for a 2 hr nap no problem,  then either going straight to sleep at BT or messing about in his cot but not needing any intervention from us. I don't know what changed but he does this all the time - routine is ok for maybe 3 weeks then he needs a change.

[Haribo2012]

I'm not saying it is nap dropping in case that made you panic    I do know that some ladies on here have LOs that have nap dropped by 2yrs....most carrying on for longer.

Our routine at that age was WU 6.30, nap 12.30 for 2 hours BT 7.30
But soon after this canines started cutting and we had EW BT messing and lots of developmental stuff going on and then one day he completed refused a nap and I had to walk with him stroller for an hour and half. We started cutting nap to 1.5 hours around then to make BT less faffing.
I think looking back at old posts I've been involved in its such a common age for sleep shenanigans that it's kind of stick to routines as best you can.

Maybe try nap at 12.30 for a day or 2 if he's been poorly and leave it uncapped and do BT 13 hours from morning WU see if he's OT!?

[Mackjack]

No, no don't worry,  you didn't panic me!  1 nap/no nap,  I don't really mind - I just want to know where I am with him! ! That sounds a good idea as he has had quite a bit of broken sleep the past few days due to poorliness.

[Haribo2012]

Hope you get a decent BT

[Mackjack]

Wasn't *too*bad. Stripped twice but asleep by 7.30