Nearly 6 months and NW gone crazy!

[ecwinters]

Hi
My DS is nearly 6 months old.  He started out as a GREAT night sleeper (even though his daytime sleep was rubbish!) and by 2-3 months was even giving me some 11 hour stretches!  However, by 4 months, he'd regularly wake for 2 feeds although he'd sometimes make it through with 1.  Then, he started to wake every 3-4 hours for a feed, for example, 9:30, 1 and 4.  I tried not to feed him at all these wake ups - and he'd quite often resettle himself anyway. 

Now, he is approaching 6 months and for the past 4 days has been waking up every 1-2 hours!  He also seems to have lost the ability to resettle on his own during the night and is waking up crying miserably - he NEVER used to cry at night!  Sometimes I can pick him up, cuddle him and put him down and he'll go straight to sleep again.  However, other times he'll scream hysterically and I can't put him down again.  I am trying not to feed him more than 2-3 times as I don't want it to become a prop but sometimes it's the only thing that will settle him.  I'm wondering whether he is teething or if this is connected to wonder week 26 - separation anxiety?  He's started to cry miserably when I put him down for daytime naps too recently - it is different to his 'I don't want to go to sleep' cry - this is miserable wailing!

Just wondered if anyone has had any experience of this and had any tips?  He can self-settle and doesn't have a paci.  I have never really done PUPD with him or shh pat as this used to annoy him (he's a touchy baby).  I am trying to put him down awake if I pick him up to comfort him but a few times he's crashed out in my arms anyway after a minute or 2.  I just want to help him get enough sleep!  I have no idea if he's hungry each time or not! He's EBF and I've been giving him a tiny amount of solids for the past weeks (carrot, potato etc.).

I don't think it's connected to day sleep as there is nothing that has changed recently.  His day sleep is pretty shocking but even on the days where he gets a decent amount of sleep, with long naps, nights are the same.

Thanks very much.

[theu.s.lees]

Sending you hugs as I'm in the same exact boat. It's exhausting. I've thought it was teething or this or that. I think I'm to the point where I have to try pupd. I wish I would've started it earlier. So I guess my only advice is that if you have ruled out hunger and teeth to try pupd. Hopefully someone else will chime in as I'm no help but sending hugs.

[ecwinters]

Sending hugs back too!  Things have improved slightly and last night he only woke at 10, 1 and then at 5:15.  How long has your DS/DD been waking up a lot at night?  I try not to feed on each wake up, especially not at 5:15, but it's so hard to know if it's genuine hunger.  His weight gain has been poor recently so I want to get as many calories into him as possible.

I think it must have been teeth or possibly a cold which started him off.  I read your original post and I'm encouraged to see how well your baby sleeps during the day - as I said, I don't think it's related to how much day sleep my DS has.

I suspect that the wake ups at 9:30/10pm and 1:00am are habitual because it's the same time every night!  However, I'm not sure how to deal with this.

[theu.s.lees]

It seems to have started mainly just before 6 months. She has always woken up 1-2 times per night, but it has started getting worse and worse right around 5.5 months or so.

I struggle with the same battle if she's really hungry, or just used to waking, or what. I'm so tired, I just want her to sleep!

[lily_layne]

My DD had a blip at around 5 months with waking every 1-2 hours. It lasted a week or so and then slowly got better. Is there any more improvement? I'd be happy to look at your EASY and see if there's anything that can be done there if you want to post it.

[Lucy-Lou89]

I feel your pain. It's so difficult as you feel that you have resolved sleeping issues when your LO was younger and it all just seems to unravel again following illness or teething.
I have no advice to offer other than I sympathise as I am in the same boat with my LO who is 6 and s half months. I will be keeping a close eye to see if you have any success. Sending hugs and a giant cup of coffee

[ecwinters]

Thanks everyone.  We are going through the 3-2 transition.  Yesterday, we did 2 naps but I'm wondering whether DS was OT by bedtime and this caused some of the wake-ups?  I usually try to squeeze in a catnap but yesterday I opted for an EBT!

Get up - 6:30 (was actually awake from about 6:00am but in cot)
Eat-7:00
Solids-8:00
Sleep-9:10-10:40

Awake-10:40
Eat-11:00
Solids-12:15
Eat (top up feed)-13:00
Sleep: 13:35-14:55

Awake-14:55
Eat-15:30
Solids-17:00
Bath time
Eat-17:40
In bed-18:00
Asleep-18:10

He then woke: 20:00 (I resettled him very quickly with 1 PUPD), 20:40 (tried to PUPD for 20 minutes but eventually gave up and fed), 23:45 (feed), 1:15 (took 25 minutes to resettle with PUPD), 2:55 (feed) and then I heard him awake from 5:45.  He was very OT this morning!

[lily_layne]

I think that even with 2 decent naps it wasn't quite enough to get him through to BT so the earlier NWs were likely OT (which is inevitable during the 3-2). BT may have been earlier than usual but wasn't technically an EBT as his day was a touch longer than 12 hours. EBT works best when the day is less than 12 hours and then hopefully LO does a more than 12 hour night.

How is his mood when he wakes from naps?

[ecwinters]

Ah OK, I always count his day from when I get him up.  Not so long ago, I was getting into a real mess with EWUs and a short A time before nap 1.  So, I started to ignore everything before I got DS up (aimed for a 6:30am start every day) and then took the A time from there.  The first A time is still a little shorter than the others but I felt we were getting somewhere and he usually does a fairly decent nap.  But I see what you mean, if he wakes early then technically that is when his day starts!  Should I be looking at his actual wake up time when thinking about bedtime?  I've been trying to keep him on a 6:30-6:30 12 hour day (with some flexibility at either end).

Today and yesterday we've had really EWUs - yesterday was 5:45 and he was already tired when I got him up at 6:30!  He then did an OT first nap but a better 2nd one - I gave him a catnap and then he was asleep in bed at 6:40pm.  So actually now I look at it, that was a 13 hour day - which may have contributed to the NWs at: 9pm, 10pm, Midnight, 1am and 3am!  He resettled himself for some of these but it's still broken sleep and he woke at 5am this morning!!!  After an hour of hearing him play around I gave him a small feed at around 6am as I hoped this would settle him, which it did, and he then woke again at 7am.  But he was still really tired and jittery and did another OT 1st nap even though I put him down 10 minutes earlier than yesterday.  I've been told not to cut that first A time because it contributes to the EWUs so I'm not really sure what to do?

However, I think you are right and I need to pull bedtime forward if we get EWUs.  I know that if I put DS to bed at 6pm he won't wake up any earlier than if he goes to bed at 6:30pm or 6:45pm.  Would you ever do a 5:45pm bedtime?  I feel I somehow need to get on top of the OT at the moment.  If DS woke at 5am and then went back to sleep for about 45 minutes between 6:15 and 7am would you count his day as starting at 7?  He's still really OT from so much broken night sleep so I'm going to give him an early night in any case - will try for around 6pm.

Waking up from naps - he wakes happy if he's done a nap longer than an hour and if he's done an UT nap (40 mins for him) then he usually wakes happy the first time he does this during the day and then he can get more grumpy f he doesn't catch up somewhere.  At the moment he's waking up jittery as he's still tired - flailing arms and legs etc.  But he's a really happy baby usually, so although I know he's OT because he's more 'wired' - to other people he probably just seems happy. 

Thanks so much - sorry for the long post!

[lily_layne]

No worries about the long post. I have a long one for you! I will try to answer all of your questions. Ask again if I miss some

I would count his day at starting at 7 if he went back to sleep. Have you tried feeding right away when he wakes early (I know he does have other NFs) to see if he resettles faster? That might help you get on top of the OT and then we can work on ditching that feed if he doesn't do it on his. I used to feed DS and pop him in the swing if he woke between 5-6. Sometimes he took 30-45 minutes to go back to sleep but he almost always did.

I have done 5:45 BT and it has worked at getting me a later WU. We'll just watch that you don't get trapped in an early BT, early WU pattern.

I got way too anxious always figuring out the right A time with DD so around this age with DS I tried set naps. The routine I tried was one that another poster on here got from a book. It has shorter A times in the morning and before the afternoon nap and then a longer A to bed. I have found that the short A times work quite well for DS (even at 10 months, he only does 2.5/3 hours in the morning). A lot of routines suggested in other books do have a shorter first A time. Are you interested in seeing the routine?

If you feel that cutting the first A time would help (and that he needs to catch up on some sleep), I would try it. I found with both LOs that if I put them down early for the first nap when they needed it, they usually napped longer. Sometimes when you suspect OT is building it can help just to follow their cues for a day or 2 to let them catch up.

Is he crying or chatting during the NWs? Are you going to him right away or giving him a chance to try to settle himself back to sleep?

[Zagorich]

Sending hugs! Same boat here. We're one week shy of six months and LO has been waking almost every 20-30mins between Bt of 8:30 and 11:30pm. Mostly she'll be out as soon as I try resttle her, other times she needs a bigger cuddle. Not searching for boob or usual teething signs. We're right in the 3-2nap transition as well. Only thing to do is keep on keeping on! Deep breaths and lots of hugs coming your way

[ecwinters]

Thanks so much for replying and sorry for the delay - DH has been away and there's been no time to sit down with the computer!

Yes - I have tried feeding him around 5am and sometimes he'll go back to sleep but not always.  I don't want to feed him unnecessarily though as I now that I'm feeding him way too much sometimes in the night anyway.  But it's good to get him a bit more sleep so I sometimes do it anyhow.

I'd like to see that routine please.  Daytime naps are a bit unpredictable here and like you I have been getting in a mess with A times.  2 hours and 40 minutes usually works in the mornings but doesn't always get a long nap - it's sometimes 40-50 minutes.  But some days I seem to get short naps whatever I do! The first nap is pretty much set but then the 2nd one depends on the length of the first one so this can then get annoying and I wonder whether setting the 2nd nap might work better?  The only thing is, I don't think DS likes a long A time to bed as he almost always doesn't nap well and gets OT very easily. 

The early NWs he will fuss and try to resettle - and if he doesn't make it he'll cry miserably.  I'll wait until he cries and then go in as if I go in when he is fussing he will normally cry!  It doesn't appear to make any difference.  Sometimes if he cries by the time I get to his cot he's stopped crying and is sucking his thumb again so it's all a bit confusing! If he wakes up at 5/5:30am he'll usually play and talk to himself.  Sometimes he'll call out eventually if he doesn't manage to go back to sleep! I do try not to go in during the early morning (unless to feed) as he will try to talk to me and gets too excited to see me!

I've put him to bed slightly earlier the last few nights and I think he's gradually becoming less OT.  But his nights are still more fragmented than I'd like and he hasn't had 2 proper naps during the day for a few days - 1 if I'm lucky. 

[lily_layne]

The first nap is pretty much set but then the 2nd one depends on the length of the first one so this can then get annoying and I wonder whether setting the 2nd nap might work better?

This is what I did with DD and I always wondered that too. I spent way, way too much time trying to find the perfect A time to get a decent second nap (and never really did.)

The set nap routine I used at 6 months (and that lasted over 3 months) was:
WU: 6-7
S: 9:30-11
S: 1:30-3
BT: 7
The book does suggest limiting the naps to 1hr 15 each to start with (if "average" sleep needs not "high") and then let bub increase to 1hr 30 if they are doing consistent naps.  I didn't do this though because DS likes a lot of sleep but might be worth a shot in your case.I have learnt by trial and error that if my LO only short naps the morning nap, I put him down 30 min early for his afternoon nap; and if we have a really rotten day (2 short naps, or only one nap) I put him to bed 30 mins early, and he seems to catch up overnight. I think you want to stick as close as you can to the times for the first few days though. I would maybe only do 15 minutes early if he short naps so that his body learns that he needs to sleep at those times.

I know the A time to bed seems really long but the poster I got this from wrote: "To be honest, I always thought it was too long when I first started following this routine and I used to make the second nap later and bedtime 6:30pm.  BUT... I only got a long afternoon nap maybe half of the time.  When I eventually followed the routine exactly, LO started taking a longer afternoon nap and sleeping in later in the morning.  Go figure.  It doesn't make sense to me but I think it is to do with the body clock - if they "know" they've got a big break between second nap and bedtime, their body makes sure they take a longer afternoon nap."

That said, if your LO is still often having a 3rd nap, I think you could throw in a short CN to get through to BT or you could aim for BT 3 hours after the second nap ends (if it's past 3 pm) which is what I did. I also didn't cap the second nap - I just let him wake on his own.

I'm here to hold your hand if you want to give it a shot.

[ecwinters]

That looks a great routine.  I wish DS would do that!  However, I don't think he'd last from his WU (usually around 5:45am!) until 9:30am.  I've been having issues with that 1st nap recently and he's only doing 30-35 minutes.  Sometimes we get a longer one.  The second nap is more reliable if the first one is short - but it's rare to get two long ones.  I think I am stuck with 3 naps for the time being until he gradually does longer.  He used to NEVER do over 45 minutes so he's getting better, we're just not quite there yet. 

Did you still feed your LO at 6 months?  He never really wants the 2nd feed at night (if I offer him one) but sometimes it's the only way of getting him back to sleep.  Last night he was awake from about 1:30 until 2:45 playing at first and then crying until I gave in and fed him.  He fed for 2 minutes and then pulled off so I put him back down and he went to sleep.  He then woke at 5:30am but was clearly exhausted this morning I don't think he's waking up because he's undertired.

[lily_layne]

He used to NEVER do over 45 minutes so he's getting better, we're just not quite there yet. 

Yay for small victories! If you're getting a longer second nap after a short first one, I wouldn't worry to much about it. Keeping a third nap in there is a good idea for now and that first one may lengthen on it's own.

I did feed at pretty much all NWs at 6 months (and still do on the nights he wakes at 10 months). Sometimes I have good intentions of trying something else but before I know it, my half-asleep self is in the rocker with DS on my breast! It hasn't become a prop issue. He rarely falls asleep on the breast. I just let him eat however much (or little) he wants and then put him down and he goes off on his own. He did start STTN on his own without any sleep training. DS had a lot of looooooooooong, chatty NWs at that age and I found that if I went in and fed after 20 minutes of chatting (even if he didn't fuss) then he would settle back to sleep.

I was thinking if you wanted to try set naps, you could use the 5 month old routine from the book which is:
WU: 6-7
S: 9-10:30
S: 1-2:30
CN if needed
BT: 6:30/7
I think the idea is that by pushing that nap until 9 they will learn to sleep later.