10 mo old NW STILL! Tried, pregnant, and frustrated.

[Anders45]

I'm pretty sure I can count on both my hands the number of times both twins slept through the night. Lately the they've been waking up at either 1:30 or 2:30 ( exactly 4 hours after their dream feed) eating 2 oz and then stay up for an hour to play. They chat and giggle with each other and it literally takes an hour of holding them before they start to act tired at all. I'm tired and pregnant, which means I'm sick when I get up to help them, and I need this to stop. I'm so frustrated. what can I do to stop waking up, and if they do wake up, how can I stop them talking to each other?

Here is my schedule:
WU 6:30 bottle (2 and 4 oz)
A
E 8:00 solids and top up (4 and 2 oz)
A
S 9:30
WU 11:30 (and 10:30 the one twin only sleeps about an hour)
E (3 and 4 oz)
a
E lunch solids and top up (2 and 2)
A
S 2:00
E 3:30 (4 and 4 oz)
A
E solids (5:00 solids)
A
E dinner with dad (they just play with their food here, but I thought it important to have dinner as a family)
WD 6:30 bath, change, night bottle(6 and 6), story, lights out
Bt 7:30
DF 9:30 - yes, we've tried to get them to quit it, but I think the NW are a little more pressing (2 and 2 oz).
NW 1:30 - always exactly 4 hours after their last feed and they eat 2 oz

They go down for sleep and naps (besides the NW) fairly well.

[lauradj]

Oh hon, that does suck!  You must be so tired!!  I will make some recommendations but I do not have any experience with twins.
I did notice that your babies are awake between 2.5-3 hours for most A times.  I would recommend you try to push for a consistent time of 3.5hr.  I really found as DS1 got older, he had a much easier time staying awake for longer.  The other thing is, if your babies are waking at the same time every night, it's habit not hunger.  It sounds like your may need to implement so PU/PD to teach them to sleep all the way through.  I've attached a link below to help you out and I would highly recommend DH takes the first couple of nights, as you really do need some rest and he's less likely to cave in out of exhaust.  Good luck!!

Pick Up/Put Down (PU/PD) - Everything you ever needed to know!

[Anders45]

I was afraid of that... And as for dealing with twins, I've found that the advice you guys give for singletons works as well for twins (except maybe that the feed off of each other, so I have to work faster). Just FYI. I will watch them today and see how long they will stay awake for. So tentatively when all is said and done their schedule should look like this, right:

WU 6
EAEA
S 9.30
WU 10.30 (11.30)
EAEA
S 2
WU 4
EAEA
BT 7.30
?
K. So I have a few questions. 1) I had heard that PU/PD wasn't recommended at this age because it just stimulated them more. I can't recall my source. Can you help clarify on this? I haven't read the article yet, but I know I will have by the time you respond. 2) My younger twin has been eating 4-6 oz during his NW these last couple of days. Is he just eating, or do you think he may actually be hungry? 3) In the recent past when we try to do PU/PD the younger twin SCREAMS. Once we give him his bottle, he calms right down, eats 6 oz and falls asleep very promptly. So I know he's tired. I've been working with him so he really only screams in the middle of the night, but I've noticed that when he is awoken from his naps early he gets similarly upset and I have to hold him for a while before he'll get down and play with his brother. So I think he may be a more sensitive type.

Anyways. Thank you so much for your help.

[lauradj]

Yup, your EASY looks good.  Is it possible to put the other twin down an hour later for that second nap, if he wakes an hour later?  Does that make sense?  I wonder if one of them is getting too much day time sleep and waking the other up in the middle of the night?  You could also try capping the morning nap so they both only sleep for an hour and then let them have an 1.5 in the afternoon.
It could be that DS is genuinely hungry, perhaps a growth spurt is afoot?  In which case your eldest probably just went through one or is about to.  Do you think you could squeeze that extra 4-6oz in somewhere during the day?  That might help.
Regarding PU/PD.  If your boys are able to pull themselves up to standing, you wait until they do so and then lay them back down.  You don't pick them up at this age, unless you know they will not calm down unless you do.  You also want to use your voice to help sooth them, "You're ok, you're just going to sleep.  It's bed time."
Hmm, I've thrown a bunch of suggestions at you, I didn't mean to do that but I was thinking as I typed.  I think I would try the nap capping first, plus the bottle top up and let that ride for a week.  If it doesn't resolve, then you'll likely need to do PU/PD.  Does that all make sense?

[Anders45]

Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. And you just verified what I have been doing for PU/PD. glad I'm doing something right.

As for yesterday... The boys slept in until 7.30, and I wanted to have their BT as close to when it normally is as possible, so they got a 2 hour A in the morning. baby A had a rough lunchtime and he had a 2.5 A time for lunch, but baby B went to sleep after 3.5 hours. Baby a woke up characteristically around 2.30 for a bottle, but baby b woke up around 11.00 (I gave him a binky and he fell right back to sleep) but then woke up at 5.30 so we fed him then.

Yeah. They woke up on time today so we'll try the schedule again and see what happens.

[lauradj]

Fantastic!!!  I'm glad to hear things are on the up!

[Anders45]

I waited to post again in hopes of something new to say, but it's all the same. They took well to the 3 1/2 hour A and have started capping their own naps at 1-1 1/2 hours. They've been getting 28 oz or a little more each day plus solids. But they are still NW! it has switched a little and no night is the same. We put them down at 7:00 and baby a woke at 5, but baby b woke at 10:40, 12:30, 2:30, and 6. A couple days ago it was the other way around.most nights they are both awake. There seems to be no consistency.

I think I'm going to try PU/PD. I'm inly nervous that baby b is going to start screaming when he doesn't get his bottle. Any pointers that may help? Or something that may lead up to it gently?

[lauradj]

Hmmm, I'm not totally sure I'm sold on PU/PD.  The inconsistent NW times have me wondering if this is all developmental/teething/genuine hunger related.  If that is the case, PU/PD will not work because they genuinely need something from you.  You could try the Pantley's Gentle Removal method, which I believe it supposed to be cry-free.  I'll see if I can find the link for you.... Found it!
Gentle Removal Plan

Have a read over and tell me what you think...

[Anders45]

That makes sense. I think I'll try it. I just found out baby a IS teething, I saw his tooth popping out today. This means his brother is soon to follow. Should I still try the Gentle removal plan, or would you wait? Also, I've been feeding baby b and then when he is suckling on the bottle I remove it and give him a binky, if he is close to sleep, he'll take the binky and stay asleep. If not, he will fuss and struggle, so I give him back the bottle. Should I continue this, or do you think I mayb should try to wean him from the binky. He only takes it just then when he is drifting off. He would probably do ok without it, but do you think it's something to worry about now?

[lauradj]

Do not even bother, it'll just go sideways and then you'll stress yourself out for nothing.  Wait for that first pesky tooth to come through, then wait to see how things shape up.  Regarding the bottle, is this the NW bottle?  I'd probably just wait until he's asleep and then, oh so gently, transport him to his crib.  People seem to be split on the binks.  My gf, who is the most regimented mother I know, lets her kids have them until they're 4 and then one night, the binky fairy comes and takes them all away.  Other parents absolutely refuse to give them.  My kids never took to them but it doesn't sound like it's causing any major harm.  If it's helping him sleep, I say go with it. 

[Anders45]

Teething is done for baby a. Baby b hasn't cut through yet. I've been waiting for teething to be done to respond so I'd have somewhere to start. We skipped the dream feed the other day and found they still woke at 2:30, so I think we'll go ahead and just stop it. I mean their ten months old!!! Any ways, I wanted to run an idea past you and get your thoughts. So, hubby and I were thinking of waking up like 1:30 and treating it as a DF of sorts. Feed um how much they want for a couple of days and slowly decrease the amount given. Then maybe they'll stay asleep and it'll be fifteen minutes instead of an hour. What do you think? Will this just reinforce eating at 2:30 or do you think it will help?

[lauradj]

You could try it but my main concern is that it will become a new habitual waking instead of them genuinely waking from hunger.  I think we already covered this but could you squeeze in a few extra milk calories during the day, maybe a whole bottle worth?  I wonder if that might help.

[Anders45]

I've been TRYING for the last two weeks to get in the extra ounces. They won't hold still to eat more than two or three ounces at a time anymore, except if I feed them when they are going down for a nap, then they eat more, but that's because they are eating while they are asleep. But I don't want to do that often because I don't want them to start using that as a prop. Sigh. I'm just so tired I don't know what to do or even how to get there. I don't know how to get them to eat more without forcing them to eat every half hour. sigh... sorry for the vent.

I don't know how to get them to eat more. I have been making eight ounce bottles and trying to make sure they eat all 8 ounces before they go down for their nap and sometimes they do and sometimes they don't (usually they don't), but it has been such a chore and I feel like all I do all day is feed babies. They are ten months old! Shouldn't I be focusing on playing with them? Sorry again.