Author Topic: 15mo NWs  (Read 3307 times)

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Offline trimbler

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15mo NWs
« on: September 21, 2015, 23:24:00 pm »
Hi there,

Been meaning to start a thread for ages but kept putting it off, thinking it's 'just a cold' or something like that. But now I really just can't think any more, too sleep deprived and just want someone to tell me what to do :P

So anyway, DD's night sleep has been getting worse, logging it stresses me out too much so I haven't been, but right now she's going to sleep some time between 6.30-7.30 (BT never later than 7 but sometimes she takes a while), wakes for 1-2.5h at some point between 9.30pm and 1am, then has 2/3 further NWs, usually needing help resettling but sometimes not. Rarely, she'll just cry out in the late evening but there's always a few NWs later on. DS comes in at 6.30am, we have to get up then during the week anyway and he wouldn't lie in at the weekend, so DD gets up then too. Sometimes I feel she'd sleep later if she could, other times she's already been awake since 5.30am or earlier. I'm aiming for a routine something like this:

Up 6.30
Nap 9.30 for 20-25mins
Nap 1-3 (have to get up by 3 due to school run, whether at home or CM)
BT 7, want to push later but only if good nap and if the night wasn't too awful - which of course it is :P

If she naps any longer in the morning, she struggles to get a good pm nap at home, but the CM often lets her go longer in the morning and sometimes she still takes a decent pm nap, other times not.

She could be teething - it's about time, since she doesn't have any through yet :o I can feel something, but it hasn't changed in a while and the nights are bad. She has a cold right now, which certainly doesn't help, but again, the nights were like this before the cold. I've been giving pain meds every night for ages, it seemed to help, then got worse again, then I added ibuprofen (previously just paracetamol) and again it seemed to help, then got worse again. She's also on Ranitidine for silent reflux, I think I accidentally gave her more than usual one night and she did better, so I've tried a couple of days on that dose (still well within the limits for her weight - she's very recently just gone down to twice a day from three times, but the nights were bad before that anyway). She also used to get funny stools and I suspected temporary lactose intolerance/sensitivity but they're ok now (well perhaps a bit more frequent, but she has a cold, might be teething, etc). So that's still a question mark in my mind but I haven"5 changed anything recently...

She self settles for naps and BT and sometimes in the night, when she wakes she's sometimes lost 'pink bunny' and resettles quickly once found. Sometimes I give her meds and clear her nose etc if she needs it. We'll usually put  a hand on her to calm her, but if I leave it there too long she kind of shrugs it off, so she always goes back to sleep independently in the end. She eats well, isn't starving in the morning. She seems to be a good temperature. She sleeps in her cot in our room, the alternative would be to put her in with DS, but I'm pretty sure he wouldn't"5 sleep through all her screaming so it wouldn't seem fair to do that to him!

Ok sorry very long and rambly, I'm in sleep deprivation fog and have just had another long NW so again couldn't get the early night I crave! Please do let me know any thoughts, it's just gone on too long now! TIA :-*



Offline First mum

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Re: 15mo NWs
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2015, 04:34:29 am »
Hi Trimbler, how long have you had the long nw?  We had a run of these pretty much every night for almost a month.  I was convinced it was teeth but nothing came of it and when the dust settled her language had jumped ahead.  We ended up putting a mattress blanket and pillow on her bedroom floor and either put a hand on her bum or shushed her.  It was almost as if she couldn't resettle past the 10 or 20 minute mark.  On the odd occasion we did have some pretty interesting meltdowns.

Have you considered shortening that first nap right down?


Offline trimbler

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Re: 15mo NWs
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2015, 13:54:35 pm »
Thanks first mum, that's interesting! Let's hope for some development then... Tbh I think we're still at the edge of what she can handle with 20mins in the morning, after a bad night then she'll do an OT waking during the pm nap (like today) and may or may not get back off again. The CM tends to give her longer and I haven't reminded her of the routine I told her we do at home, because the nights are so bad and she's often done a decent pm nap there even after a longer am nap. Tbh I can't remember how long the nights have been bad, I just know she was EWing in June, then waking more frequently in July - not so long, but needing help to resettle and usually EWing. Think August was about the same, then for at least all of September so far she's been doing this horrible long NW, not so much EW but she gets so little sleep overall now she's so unhappy during the day :'(



Offline First mum

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Re: 15mo NWs
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2015, 07:35:09 am »
Oh that does sound rough! What do you do in the nw? Are you medicating? Talking? Cuddling?

I remember right in the middle of this phase all she wanted was me.  She wouldn't let hubby settle her and had a few epic meltdowns in the cot until I came in.  All that worked was pamol or nurofen and wrapping her inside my dressing gown and laying her on the mattress with me.  She basically wanted to lie on me or feel my weight on her, only when she was out cold could I move her and usually by this stage I'd fallen asleep too so we just stayed on the mattress.  This was for about a week 10 days and then I got her back in the cot with the side down and me lying over the side with my arms wrapped tight around her.  Over a couple of days I reduced my contact less and less until I was able just to reach through and give her a gentle rub.

If you say she is OT with a shorter nap in the morning what about pulling her big nap earlier say 12-12:30 and using an ebt as well to help her catch up?

Offline ginger428

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Re: 15mo NWs
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2015, 15:54:15 pm »
Hi Trimbler,
As you know we had a terrible case of long NWs a couple months ago... I did similar to what Firstmum did, more contact in the beginning then reducing it as he allowed. I'm afraid there was no real explanation other than he was probably going through some developmental leap? It didn't seem like teeth to me, but I remember the molars surfacing sometime soon after, but discomfort was more apparent in the month after... I did medicate just in case it was discomfort though.

I also remember how awful it was to know what to do when OT set in.  Totally up to you, but with us, we pulled the pm nap earlier even with a short am nap. So something like:

6:00/6:30 WU
9:30-9:45 CN
12:00/12:30 Nap

I don't recall if you said you've tried this. HUGS!!!

Offline Martini~

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Re: 15mo NWs
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2015, 16:53:03 pm »
Hon, isn't that a time to cap morning nap? For a 15mo 20-25min is a long am nap I would say and the first NW looks to me as UT, the next probably OT.
~Marta

Offline trimbler

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Re: 15mo NWs
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2015, 22:00:20 pm »
Thanks for your words of wisdom everyone :-* I'vr just been medicating at night, it does seem like discomfort, if I try to use touch to help her get back off again she just wriggles or tries to shrug me away, she's usually just lying there trying to get back to sleep for a while, then yelling/screaming, then calms, usually with help, sometimes without, then screams, etc etc. She does protest when I give her the meds, I can't do it in the cot I have to take her out and her eyes are closed and she's pushing away and trying not to let me put anything in her mouth, just acts like all she wants to do is sleep but she can't :( I do think I felt the rough edge of the first tooth just poking through, or just beneath the gum when I did her teething gel at BT today, so perhaps I can blame teeth after all?

I do agree that I need to keep that am nap short, hopefully I'll be able to try that at the weekend so that I can tell the CM that it works on Monday! I've already hinted that I think she needs no more than 25mins max but she keeps letting her sleep 35-40mins and then the pm nap ends up shorter and we can't stretch the last A time without her getting OT. Proper meltdown at BT tonight, seemed to be because she wanted to put her babygro on herself :D ::) ??? Will let you know if I spot a tooth in the morning ;) I know that am nap is on the long side, but it's around what DS did at that age and we've actually only recently cut down to 25mins. I was about to go down to 20 when all these bad nights started and I just felt sorry for her in the morning so stuck at 25, then of course the CM gave her even longer...

Oh and I have tried to pull the pm nap forward, trouble is that she really likes her food and sometimes just keeps eating and eating her lunch and I don't want to get her down before she's ready, but then she'll start obviously working on a poo, so I let her do that before changing her and then of course it's later than intended ::) But yes, I'll keep that in mind and try again when she's home on Friday...



Offline ginger428

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Re: 15mo NWs
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2015, 23:13:04 pm »
Your explanation totally reminded me of how awkward lunch was!! Yes, we had similar issues and had to do half lunch before and half lunch after for a little while. And yes, poos screwed up a lot of naps. It was very frustrating. I ended up making lunch really early at times to give him time to wo der about and poo. During this time I gave him some milk before nap to tide him over the nap.  This process was so messy and frustrating. DD sounds just like M when a molar was cutting through. Not a lot would pacify him... A lot of squirming and whining.

I think you're right and might have to wait for teeth to pass... Hang in there!

Offline First mum

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Re: 15mo NWs
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2015, 06:48:33 am »
Oh Trimbler reading your post reminded me my lo did the same.  I think it was a good stretch of a week where she did not want to be touched or calmed or anything and just had an epic meltdown.  I remember saying over and over "its ok mummys here when your ready you can have a cuddle'.  I felt a bit helpless to be honest and did get angry but raising my voice didn't help I just had to ride it out.  I think from memory a really firm cuddle did help.

You know your lo best but I too remember feeling sorry for her and just letting her have a bit longer in that morning nap  :) I think it was one of the lovely ladies on here who said I propably wasn't helping the overall problem and I needed to keep it short and ride it out.  It did work........ eventually!

Bloody teeth!!!  We have had a molar and incisor on the same side join our party this week  ;D

Offline trimbler

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Re: 15mo NWs
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2015, 19:04:27 pm »
Well, sure enough, that very first tooth is now peeping through :) Taking its time though! I do know that I really need to help her catch up somehow, when things seemed to be working, she was doing at least 14.5h TS, now with all the NWs we're getting more like 10.5 :'( and she's not coping well! On the one hand I keep thinking that teeth or no teeth, if she's up for 2h stretches at night then it must be UT, but on the other hand I know that she's chronically OT right now, so maybe it's just discomfort keeping her awake?? I know eventually I'll have to push her, but feel like I ought to try EBT tomorrow, wasn't possible today. But cutting the am nap short I can do, when she's home, as it's just a case of shaving off 5-10mins which isn't much really!



Offline First mum

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Re: 15mo NWs
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2015, 00:19:14 am »
Oh wow that really is a big drop in overall sleep.  I'd do what you think is best.  To be honest not a lot worked for us either until we got on top of the sleep debt and the phase passed.  We did have a couple of crazy ebt around 5-5:15 and thankfully she tacked on!  Hugs!

Offline trimbler

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Re: 15mo NWs
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2015, 13:52:35 pm »
Yeah getting on top of the sleep debt... Absolutely no idea how! APOP doesn't work any more, the only times she's slept ok are when I've had to wake her for school collection so no chance to catch up then either :'( Actually, maybe I exaggerated with the 10.5h TS, that's just the worst we get, it's probably usually more like 12h and very rarely, on a really good night, approaching 13h, but still way less than what she was comfortable on before. Just really hoping that her jabs on Tuesday will somehow break the cycle!

At home today, she  had a big OT meltdown during the school drop off but then messed around for ages when we got home, I let her have 15mins and put her down a bit early for the pm nap, she messed around and then slept 1h :( Usually it would be 1.5h on a 'bad' day. Gone quiet in the monitor now (yes hoping for resettle) so perhaps she'll get a few more minutes before I have to wake her... I have noticed before that she seems to really struggle to get off if she's not had 3h A time, however short her morning nap was. But I do think it sounds good to cut that one short and bring the pm one forward, guess that didn't work today because she was already in meltdown territory before the am nap and took ages to get off, so we couldn't get 3h A time in and have an earlier pm nap. But if only we could then perhaps she could still have a decent A to bed but an early enough BT to get a longer night in so that even if she does her 2h NW she'd get more sleep overall?? Sorry I'm just too sleep deprived and befuddled, sorry I haven't responded to anyone on my BC or the 2-1 thread, my addled brain is already full with work, DS party and stressing about DD's sleep :P I'll be a better BW buddy when I can just get a bit more sleep...my sanity is slipping away... Just turned the monitor off for a few seconds to regroup - thought good, it's gone quiet but then realised I just hadn't turned it back on again :-[ So, she's slept 1.15-2.15 and fussed the next half an hour, better get her up and go get DS, then try for EBT...6.30??? Or try 6? She's just too wired atm it doesn't seem to matter what happens she's too wired to sleep but unbearably tired when up :(



Offline lauraims

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Re: 15mo NWs
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2015, 02:29:41 am »
Hey Hun !!! I'd do 6pm bt. The earlier the better !! I find that too with dd's hour long nw's the earlier bt the better. Especially if not good naps. Maybe try putting her down for first nap at 3.5 hours then for second nap at 3.15 to hopefully be asleep at the 3.5hr mark ? That's what's working for my dd at the mo, and most days getting a 1.45-2hr AN now.

Offline trimbler

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Re: 15mo NWs
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2015, 12:14:57 pm »
You were probably right Laura, unfortunately that just wasn't possible yesterday with school collection, an unforeseen circumstance popping up and dinner etc :( So we had another BT meltdown, although of course she was absolutely fine and chirpy right until then ::) Slept straight off at 6.30 no problem but then had an unsettled evening (hasn't done that in a while, it's usually out like a light until some time between 10-12 and then up for ages...), think she then slept ok from around 11-4.30(?) unless it was just that I slept through it, but then never really got back off again :( blah! Kept her up until usual am nap time today and let her have 20mins (I know, I know, but she'd been awake practically 5h before that (although 2 of those in her cot) and then had another 3h afterwards before the pm nap - she surely must have been tired enough for it, right?! Well, we'll find out... Hopefully she'll at least give me time to bake DS's birthday cake :)



Offline trimbler

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Re: 15mo NWs
« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2015, 13:57:16 pm »
Oh this is horrendous! Another OT pm nap, 1h20-1h40, not quite sure as I heard stirrings before the big scream. I know it doesn't sound bad in itself but when she's not so OT it's usually 2h, she's clearly upset :'( I just need her to do a long catch-up but can't seem to even get a normal sleep, let alone a long one. Of course during the week when I have school collection I have to wake her from the pm nap (which may be broken or start late due to faffing around) but when she would have the chance to sleep longer at the weekend she does horrible naps. Wondering whether to try. 6pm BT tonight?? But really don't want another 4.30am WU, especially with the time change coming up...with that, I'd kind of prefer the 2h NWs with a normal WU :P Maybe I should push BT regardless so she just conks out??? But she's so OT... Anyone found that the jabs have been successful in breaking these mega OT cycles? I think it's my only hope now :P

Or should I just stick rigidly to set times and hope that she eventually gets the idea ??? I don't have much flexibility anyway!
« Last Edit: September 26, 2015, 14:05:20 pm by trimbler »