5 month old-short naps since 4 months

[mommykay410]

Hi!  My LO is almost 5 1/2 months old and has been taking 30-40 minute naps for a little over a month now.  When she was younger she was on a good schedule...waking up at 8, yawning at 9 and falling asleep on her own in the crib for a good 2 hour nap, and continuing that 3 hour schedule the rest of the day usually going to sleep around 8.  Once she hit close to 4 months, she began waking around the 45 minute mark, and I would end up rocking her back to sleep for every nap.  Eventually the rocking got to a point where I could hardly put her down once she was asleep, so I decided to look in to sleep training ideas, which is what led me to The Baby Whisperer, since I am not interested in CIO methods. 
I started about 1 1/2 weeks ago using pupd and more often just shush/pat, and after a couple days she was able to fall asleep on her own again rather than me rocking her every time.  However, she still wakes up around the 30-40 minute mark.  If she would wake up crying at that point I know I should do shush/pat or pupd, but she usually wakes up and lays calmly for a few minutes and then starts talking to herself, or she poops and then is wide awake.  I don't want to intervene if she is content, but after 30+ minutes of talking to herself she eventually gets mad and starts to fuss, at which point I would go in.  A lot of the time though when I go in at that point she smiles at me and then just wants to play with my hand while I try to pat her.  So eventually I just get her up and feed her earlier than her scheduled time and restart the routine. 
Since I just recently read Tracy's book, I didn't realize that she should be on a 4 hour schedule, and I was probably not giving her long enough awake time either.  I have always been pretty good about watching for her sleep cues and putting her down at the right moment, so I started watching more closely again and she is now able to stay awake happily for at least 1.5 hours before she starts rubbing her eyes and fussing, at which point I immediately put her down because she gets overtired quickly and would have trouble falling asleep on her own.   
So I guess my main question is, what do I do when she wakes after 30 minutes and talks to herself or needs a diaper change? 
Any help anyone can give would be greatly appreciated!  I'm starting to get anxiety whenever it comes close to nap time 

[Kellyjs]

Hi and welcome. Sorry you haven't had a reply yet 

I want to say forts off is that I totally feel your pain, exact same thing happened to us too. Had short napping forever! It will get better hun, I promise as I'll walk you through it. If it makes you feel any better my DD loves her nap now!!

Would you mind posting your easy for me please? Ideally not what you're working towards but what the last day or two looked like for me? Helps immensely if I can be there with you 

Tracy's 4hr routine is really for around 4mo hun and related to feeding (bottle feeding really rather than BF as that's a little outdated now in the book). A times for a 5mo should be closer to 2.5hrs so if you're doing less than 2 I would definitely expect UT. Don't worry though, I did that too. Sleep cues start to get a bit unreliable at this age as they show signs even when they're bored, hungry or just need a change in scenery so it helps to have one eye on the clock too. Look forward to hearing from you xx

Average A times- BOOKMARK ME!

[mommykay410]

Kellyjs, thank you for your reply and support!  I know it will get better at some point, I just hope that it is sooner rather than later.  Here was our schedule for the last two days:
Tuesday -
E 8:10a
A til 9:25a
S 9:30a-10:40a (asleep on own)
E 11:05a
A til 12:20p
S 12:30p-1:05p (asleep on own, pooped awake)
E 2:05p
A til 2:55p
S 3:00p-3:30p (asleep on own), 3:40-4:10 did shhpat/pupd
E 4:15p
A
E 6:20-6:50p
S 7:10p-1:45a (had to shhpat to sleep at 7)
Wednesday:
E 1:50a
S 2:25a-6:10a (left in crib)
E 7:00a
A til 7:55
S 8:05-9:15 (asleep on own)
E 10:00
A til 10:50
11:05-11:15 shhpat
S 11:15-12:15p (tried wake to sleep at 11:40)
E 1:10
A til 1:45
S 1:55-2:20 (asleep on own)
2:25-3 shhpat, then got up until 3:20
3:30-3:45 shhpat
S 3:50-4:15
E 4:20
A
E 6:10-6:35
S 6:50-11:45
E 11:50
Thursday:
S 12:15a-4:00a
E 4:15
S 4:35-7:15a
E 7:25
A til 9:05
S 9:15-9:50 (asleep on own)

And that brings us up to now    I thought I would try wake to sleep to see if that would help her make it past transitions, but I've only had the opportunity to do it twice so far, but I think I will keep trying to see if I can make any progress that way.  I do watch the clock as well as sleep cues when it gets close to nap time.  Since she falls asleep on her own within a few minutes of putting her down, I'm pretty sure I have the timing right.  Yesterday when she was closer to 2 hours of awake time I caught her a couple minutes too late, and that is when I got stuck having to do shhpat to get her to fall asleep for that nap.  I have tried to just change the scenery when she starts fussing or rubbing her eyes, but she is not interested in that, so I then know it's time for sleep. 
In regards to the 4 hour routine, are you saying that she should not necessarily be on a 4 hour at 5 1/2 months if she is EBF?  She will not take a bottle and is not on solids yet. 
If I could solve this nap problem with as little shhpat/pupd as possible I'd be ecstatic, as my back and neck are killing me from leaning over the side of her crib haha. 
Looking forward to hearing any advice you have for me!

[Kellyjs]

Oh I know exactly what you mean hun, I still have a crook in my back from those ssh/pat sessions!!

I know you mean well looking for the sleep cues, I really do, however those. A times are much too short hun, even for a high sleep needs LO. 1hr 20-30mins A is really for under 4mo and she's 5.5mths so really should be closer to 2.5hrs maybe even a little less if she is high sleep needs.

I think the reason you had to ssh/pat that first night is that she had closer to 3hrs last A there which might have been a tad too much, so I think a little better spacing of your day might help.

You've really set up a good basis with her learning that ssh/pat and pu/pd means it's time to sleep. W2s won't always be successful if the A time is too short I'm afraid.

Let's start with that first. A shall we as that's the one that's much too short. I would extend slowly so add on 15mins A first thing. Hold it for 3 days then extend the same again. She may get a bit grumpy as going down at that time can be learned behaviour. I didn't believe this either when I was told hun as we had sleepy cues galore, but please trust me ok? I used to just do something low-key like carrying her round the house pointing out all the things I needed to clean  .

I want to warn you though, once we start extending, she will get used to it and we definitely will need to extend again in time. The first nap might be long on some days (like you've had already), short on others but we really need to extend it as it's going to cause you more problems in the long run keeping it short. Tbh I'm surprised you haven't had EW with that short of an A first thing!

From what I can see, your bubba is like mine in that she can do a full A time after a short nap. And that too results in an UT nap. This reinforces the fact she can handle more A time than she's having.

What do you think? Doable? Fwiw I had a very similar routine with my DD. Ideally she should be on 2 good naps a day by now xx

Eta sorry I forgot to answer your question about bf didn't i? I'm not an expert hun, but no 4hr feedings for ebf bubbas is sometimes not achievable until they start solids around 5.5-6mo. Many stick with 3hrs for the day. It's so important to get as much milk into them during the day as possible (without creating a snacking habit), sometimes moving to 4hr feeding causes them to wake more at night as they've dropped a feed during the day. We like to think Tracy would've updated her book wrt bf if she was still with us xx

[mommykay410]

Thank you for the suggestions.  I will try keeping her up 15 extra minutes in the morning starting tomorrow and see if we can make any progress.  I got 1 hr 15 mins out of her for her second nap today, and I did W2S at 25 mins.  But her nap at 2:40 was only 30 mins, and that was with doing W2S again (however she sneezed and I think that woke her fully then).  I tried to put her down for an extra nap then at 4:30 and did shhpat from 4:40-5.  She was looking like she was going to doze off for a couple minutes but then became wide awake and was screeching at me so I put her in her swing to at least relax a bit.  I will put her down earlier for bed tonight after bath and hopefully she will sleep good tonight.  She normally only gets up once to eat between 2 and 4, but every once in a while she throws in an extra middle of the night wake up like last night. 
Would you be able to give me a sample schedule of what her day should look like ideally at this point with waking up around 7/7:15?

[Kellyjs]

I think we definitely have to consider she's HSN hun but time will tell. With that short of an A as I mentioned before should be causing you more issues than you have currently. I have no idea what a typical routine is, I can show you the link that lists many different sample routine but tbh that used to drive me up the wall trying to get DD to fit into it.

I think for you we should be aiming for a 2hr first A in time. Those other A's will stretch too eventually allowing you to get rid of the last CN as it does look like she's starting to resist it. For now, I'd keep with the w2s as you've obviously nailed it and try the extra 15mins in the morning tomorrow with the w2s again and let me know how it goes?

I'm much more cautious of a too long of an A to BT. It does happen during these nap transitions but I think as she's showing she's wanting to get rid of the CN we need to space the naps in the day better for you so we don't get OT at BT xx

[mommykay410]

Well I don't want to count my chickens before they hatch, but we have made progress!  On Friday she woke up at 6:25a, napped 8:30-9:30, 11:30-12:35p, 2:55-3:35 and then went to bed at 6:55.  Saturday she woke up at 6:30a, napped 8:35-10, 12p-1:15, and 3:25-3:50, then went to bed at 7:15.  And today she woke up at 7a, napped 9-10:10, 12:15p-1, 3:15-4:25 and went to sleep at 7:10.  So she seems to be doing well with the 2 hour A time.  Do you think I need to increase it more, or do you think she is where she should be now?  She does get cranky the last 10-15 minutes, so I don't think I could really push her much longer at this point without her getting OT. 

[Kellyjs]

That's sounding great, yay! I do think you might need to push the A time soon, but perhaps hold for another 3 days where younger and see how it goes? Xx

[mommykay410]

We're still doing good!  She did have a short one the other day because she got her other arm out of her swaddle and couldn't make it past the transition then, but for the most part she's been napping for around 1 hr 10 mins - 1.5 hr.  I don't think she's ready to push past the 2 hour A time yet because she seems to hit the OT quick after that, and then I end up having to shh-pat to get her to go down for the nap.  She has been quite cranky and hard to entertain this past week, so I didn't want to make it worse haha.  Thanks so much for all your help!

[Kellyjs]

This is amazing hun, go you! And really good to know that she prefers the lower than average A times for her age... That'll help a lot in the future xx

[mommykay410]

Apparently I spoke too soon!  Last night she was up 3 times and only slept for a total of 9 hours, and today she was back to taking half hour naps    I think tomorrow I will try to increase her A time then to 2 hr 15 mins and see if that gets her back on track.  Hoping that does the trick again!

[Kellyjs]

Unfortunately around now they like to increase their A time every few weeks or so! Just as we think we've sussed it....  xx

[mommykay410]

Ok, I'm at a loss again    Her schedule has been all over the place the past few days, and she has been cranky during her playtime for around the last 2 weeks it seems.  Sometimes she takes a nap over an hour, sometimes 35 mins, sometimes 50 mins.  Some nights she gets up twice to eat, but then last night she slept the whole night from 7:50p-6:30a.  I'd like her to at least make it to 7:00am if possible.  Here has been her EASY for this week (I'll just list her nap/sleep times and first and last E to make it easier.  She eats within 15 minutes of waking from each nap/sleep).  Hoping you can help!
Sunday night:
S 7:30p-11:40
Monday
S 12:35a-6:20
S 7:05-8:45
S 11:00-1:00p   
S 3:20-3:45
E 4:00, 6:25
S 7-8:20 (had to shhpat to fall asleep)
S 9-1:20a
S 2:15-6:40
Tuesday
E 7
S 8:55-10:05
S 12:10p-1:15 (shhpat to fall asleep)
S 3:40-4:05
E 4:15, 6:30
S 7-9
S 9:35-12:45a
S 1:25-6:30
Wednesday
E 7:10
S 8:45-10
S 12:15p-1:30
S 3:45-4:15
E 4:30, 6:30
S 7-3:30a
S 4:10-6:45
Thursday
E 7:15
S 9-9:35
S 10:50-11:25 (shhpat from 10:30-10:50)
S 1:50p-2:45
S 5:15-5:45 (shhpat from 4:55)
E 5:50, 7:15
S 7:50-6:30a
Friday (today)
E 6:50
S 8:40-9:15
S 11:15-12:05p
S 2:35-3:30

Thank you!!

[Kellyjs]

Fwiw hun, I tried and tried to get my DD on a 7am wu. Drove me a little nuts tbh, turns out her natural rhythm really is wu around 6.15-6.30.

I still might be tempted to push that first As though to see if it helps with a later wu. Even if she is HSN she may be on her way to dropping that CN.

I wonder if she's teething atm too? Mine was ever so grumpy when teething and still is! Have you checked out the wonder weeks website too, that saved my sanity more than once! Xx

[mommykay410]

I'm beginning to think that she is not HSN at all with how little she's been sleeping lately haha.  She always seemed to do best when sleeping 11+ hours at night, but lately she's only been getting around 10-10.5 and then taking short naps on top of it, so I'm afraid she will become chronically overtired eventually.  Today she woke up at 6am and then both of her naps were only 1/2 hour, and that was with 2.5 hour A time between each.  I have read the Wonder Weeks, but I should probably check in with it again just to see.  I thought maybe teething too, but there doesn't seem to be anything going on in there really.  I will keep increasing her A time to see if that makes a difference as long as she's not too super fussy when I extend it.  I'll keep you posted! 

[Kellyjs]

Oh dear, dyt OT may have set in hun? Is that forts nap still long or has that one gone to pot too?

You could try reducing the A a little and see if she catches up? An EBT might work wonders too? Xx

[mommykay410]

OT has definitely caught up  Her first nap was from 8:30-9, second one from 11:30-12, and then I finally got an hour out of her from 2:35-3:35, but I knew that would be the end of naps for the day.  I fed her at 6:25 for the night and she fell asleep while she was eating, so when I put her down in her crib she was not wanting to go back to sleep.  I ended up doing shhpat/trying to feed her again from ~7:10-8:30 when she finally fell asleep.  I'm hoping she can stock up on some more sleep tonight than she has been the past few nights..poor thing 

Oh I also did check Wonder Weeks and she is 26 weeks now and fits the characteristics of that leap/fussy time to a T!!

[Kellyjs]

It does start to make sense doesn't it with the wonder weeks? Funnily enough I used to notice when she was in a sunny period!!

I think OT can catch up with them when they're going through these ww as they're busy trying to learn something new. Perhaps see if you can reduce the A time by 10mins or so tomorrow morning and see if that helps? Xx

[mommykay410]

It seems to be getting worse by the day    For the past week or so she's been waking up crying anywhere from 1-3 hours after going down for bed at night.  I feed her and she falls asleep while eating, so it's near impossible to get her to burp before laying her back down.  Then she gets up again sometime between say 1 and 4, and up for the day between 6:30-7:15.  And her naps are getting shorter by the day too...today was the worst with naps of 45, 30, and 30 minutes.  She hasn't gotten more than 2 total hours of naps in days, and seems to only be totaling ~10.5 hours at night too, so she's definitely not getting enough sleep.  I thought OT would've caught up to her by now and she would've crashed, but apparently not.  I think there is some teething going on now too, which isn't helping the case.  I just wish she could get caught up on her sleep    She's currently at a 2.5 hour A time for each.  Should I be increasing her A time as the day goes on, or keep it the same amount of time between each nap? 

[Kellyjs]

I'd keep it the same for now hun. I think you've definitely got some OT going on. What the A time to BT atm? It could well be after those short naps all day 2.5hrs to BT is too much. My DD always like a short A to BT and was on that at 7mo. Would you mind posting the last couple of days for me including NW's and nap length and we'll see if we can tweak something.

Are you medicating for teething hun? Xx

[mommykay410]

Her A before bed varies depending on if she takes her catnap or not.  Some days she fights it like crazy and other days she takes it but wakes up crying at 30 min on the dot.  It can be anywhere from 2-4 hours.      Here is her schedule for the past few days:

Tuesday night
S 7:15p (shhpat) - 11:45
E 11:50
S 12:20a-3:45
E 4:00
S 4:25-7:15
Wed. morning
E 7:30, 8:40 1T pears
S 9:45-10:45
E 11:00
S 1:25p-1:50
E 2:05, 3:10 1T sweet potatoes
S 4:40-5:05
E 5:10, 6:45
S 7:15-8:45
E 8:50
S 9:20-4:00a
E 4:20
S 4:55-6:35
Thurs. morning
E 7:00, 8:05 1T pears
S 9:20-10
E 10:35, offered one side at 11:45 to top off
S 12:25p-1
E 2:00 (fell asleep while eating for ~10mins but then I tried to move and she woke)
laid down at 3:30, shhpat 3:50-4:25
S 4:25-4:55
E 5:00, 6:45
S 7:35 (shhpat)-8:45
E 8:50
S 9:15-1:20a
E 1:45
S 2:35-4
E 4:25
S 4:45-6:40
Fri. morning
E 7:10 (not really hungry)/8:05 ate full
S 9:05 (shhpat)-9:45
E 10:00

And that's where we're at now.  I will give her some pears around 11:15 and then hope that she takes longer than a half hour nap if I put her down at 12:15.  She has her 6 month checkup and shots today so I was really hoping she'd have caught up on sleep and been well rested before the immunizations.  I have not given her any meds for teething because she doesn't really seem to be in pain and I don't want to give her anything if I don't have to.  So she only got a little over 1.5 hours of naps total yesterday, and maybe 9 hours last night if I count when she fell asleep while nursing before I put her back in her crib.  I was hoping she'd sleep in longer this morning since she was up so many times and for so long, but she was talking and playing when I got her a little before 7.  I would try to do shhpat/pupd when she wakes up early from naps but she wakes up happy from them except the catnap, so I'm not going to make her mad by forcing her to stay sleeping.  Do you think I should try WTS again?  I only did it a couple times because she didn't seem to need it, but maybe that could help now?  The thing is that her times are sort of inconsistent, so I wouldn't really know the best time to go in to do it. 

[Kellyjs]

Ok hun, it looks like she's caught in an UT/OT loop. It is difficult to get out of it, but these immunisations might be your saving grace as they usually sleep quite well after them (hope I haven't jinxed that for you now).

I think the A times need pushing hun, I really believe she's further down the 3-2 than we expected. She's only taking that CN when the other two naps have been crappy am I right? And that nice long first nap seems to have shortened a lot too.

I would work on that first A. Ideally we need to get the first 2 A times closer to 3 hours in order to drop the CN.

On Thursday I see she only had 2hrs 20 first A resulting in an UT nap, then again 2hrs 25mins resulted in an UT nap. This could be because she can handle a full A time after a short nap (mine could), but really it tells us if she can handle that lomg after a short nap she should be capable of handling much more in the morning.

How about we go straight in and jump to 2hrs 45mins first A? Wdyt? She might need a resettle after a sleep cycle until we gets used to this new A time as it is quite a jump, but I'm hoping she should be easier to resettle and get a chance of a longer nap at least. Want to try? Xx

P.s and good call on not trying to get her back to sleep for ages. Many on here do (as I did) and drive ourselves crazy! Xx

[mommykay410]

Yes, she only takes the catnap if she wakes up from her second nap earlier than around 3:30, because otherwise I'd be putting her down for a catnap at 6:00 if she's up for 2.5 hours, so I generally just keep her up at that point.  She needs the catnap when she wakes up early (6:30) and takes the short naps because there's no way she'd make it that long before bed.  I agree, she can do a full A time after a short nap, but she is definitely OT and harder to get to sleep if she had a short nap and regular A time.  I will try the 2 hr 45 min A time tomorrow morning.  Should I do the same for her second nap then too?  Or should I wait and see how long she sleeps and how she is at that point?  She doesn't seem to be doing well with me trying to resettle her back to sleep when she wakes up early, so if she wakes up crying from that first nap I will try to shhpat/pupd, but if she is happy I guess I will just get her up? 

This afternoon she fell asleep when I fed her for about 25 minutes, so that gave her a little extra, but I'm not sure if she'll take a catnap now at this point because she woke up on my a little before 3.  However, that puts her at only 1.5 hours of naps for the whole day again.  Thinking maybe I'll just do an EBT tonight and try to feed her at 6 and have her sleeping by 6:30 so maybe she can catch up on some sleep? 

Side note...We just got back from the pediatrician and I mentioned that she's been taking short naps and getting up a couple times at night for the past few days.  The dr said that I shouldn't feed her that many times at night.  I told her she eats a full meal when she normally gets up once a night between 1 and 4...she said 4 is ok but not 1:00.  She said to either let her cry or pat her if I want.  She also said that her bedtime is too early and that she should go to sleep around 7:30 and that might stop the middle of the night wakings.  Needless to say, I don't necessarily agree with her, as everything I've read in books and online has said that it's normal for EBF babies to wake up at night to feed (especially since she's only in the 37th%ile for her weight right now), and a bedtime of between 6:30-7 is appropriate.  I'm considering switching doctors at this point.  Is it horrible that I trust the opinion of someone online who I've never met (you  ) over the doctor?

[Kellyjs]

So sorry hun, I think I missed your post!! Oh dear, please accept my apologies.  . I've had a hectic few days and haven't checked my messages properly.

How's it going now? I personally don't accept the opinions of doctors when they suggest to let a LO CIO. Unfortunately here that's what midwives, health visitors and doctors suggest because they don't know any better.

You're totally right, I would expect 2 feeds a night at this age, some continue to until solids are firmly established. I really don't think you have a prop issue as she falls asleep independently otherwise xx

Eta just thought, I would be more likely to feed at 1am than 4am anyway as otherwise it'll be less likely for her to be ready for her first feed of the day! Grrr to that doctor!!! Xx

[mommykay410]

No worries!  We had a busy weekend here too.     Thank you for confirming my opinion on the doctor...definitely not a fan anymore.  We've been doing much better with our sleep here!  Saturday she took 1hr 25 min first nap, 1 hr second nap, and then a 10 min catnap with me rocking her as we were at my in-laws house.  She did get up twice to eat, at 9 and 3:30, but she wasn't really eating much during the day, so I knew that would happen.  Yesterday she took a 1hr 45 min first nap and then the rest of the day was all over the place because we drove an hour to my dad's house and she catnapped in the car twice and once at the restaurant during dinner.  But she went down great at 7:25, got up at 4 to eat, and then was up happily at 7:05 this morning.  So the increase in A time was what she needed again!  I think you were right that the shots helped her to catch up on some of that OT sleep too.  I'm hoping that she will continue these longer naps this week and then we can skip the catnaps!

[Kellyjs]

Yay, great news hun. Well done you! You know your LO best, trust your instincts. Neither I nor a doctor can tell you what's best for her ok? You knew she was distracted that day out and was well prepared for an extra feed, great mummy instincts. Hope it continues to go well, do pop back if you need to xx

[mommykay410]

Well apparently I spoke too soon again because those long naps only lasted 2 days    I know we were dealing with some teething issues this week a few days, but still nothing to show for it.  Monday she napped 1 hr in the morning but then 20 mins and 18 mins, Tuesday was 1 hr, 30 min, 30 min, Wednesday 45 mins and 45 mins ending at 2:45pm and then refused catnap, Thursday 50 mins and 1 hr then refused catnap (Those days were all 2 hr 45min/50min A times).  Friday 30 min and 55 min, refused catnap (3 hr A time), and Saturday 1 hr morning then 35 mins afternoon with 3 hr A times.  WU has been anywhere from 6:20-8, but I always feed her around 6:30 and have her in bed sleeping by 7.  She almost always falls asleep while she's eating though since she ends up with such a long A time from 2nd nap to bed when she refuses her catnap.  We change the clocks back next weekend so I'd like to try to push her bedtime this week so she's not waking up at 5:00 in the morning with the change, but I'm not sure how I'm going to keep her up long enough to push it later if she is not napping enough during the day.  She's getting around 10.5-11 hours at night, but only usually a total of 1.5 hours daytime sleep.  Should I be trying to extend her A times even longer than 3 hours?  And if so, what's the longest they should be at this point (6.5 months)? 

[Kellyjs]

Oh no, sorry to hear this hun. How old is she now exactly?

She's obviously refusing the cn's more often than not now isn't she? We might have to bump up the A times again so there's not too lomg of an A time before BT wdyt? Xx

[mommykay410]

She is 28 weeks now.  Yes, I've pretty much given up on the catnaps for the most part.  If her second nap ends too early I try to put her down for it, but when she cries and I go up to shhpat she ends up just playing with my hand and smiling at me, so I don't fight for her to go down since it's usually after 5:00 at that point anyways.  Yesterday her naps were 30 min and 25 min, and then she fell asleep for about 30 mins while nursing around 4:30, which was helpful in getting us to a little later bedtime.  Her A times yesterday were around 3 hr 10 min.  I think part of the reason she is waking up early is because she's hungry.  I'm struggling a bit with when to nurse her with the longer A times.  If I feed her right before nap she ends up falling asleep on me and then doesn't want to go down for nap when she's done eating since she took some of the edge off. 

She's also been getting up 3x a night, which I'm not sure the reason for.  She almost always falls asleep while nursing before bed and then I can't get her to burp or take a full feed.  So if I lay her in her crib at 7, she is already asleep and then has been getting up at say 9:00, 11:15, and 4 for the past couple nights.  Each time I feed her but she falls asleep while eating, so I don't know how much she's eating at that point, and again I can't get her to burp, so then gas becomes a problem.  Today she woke up at 7:15 and napped from 10:25-11:00.  She didn't wake up happy, but I couldn't resettle her so I got her up and fed her.  I was going to try for a little bit longer A time this morning, but she was really fussing so I put her down.  When she takes such a short nap, should I still keep her A time the same to the next nap, or just watch for cues?  She has got to to be getting OT again soon.  She is cranky as can be right now.

[Kellyjs]

Oh (hugs) hun, I hate the crankiness! Have you checked for teeth at all? This is sounding suspiciously like teething behaviour.

Ok, she might be too shattered to take a full feed before BT as you say. This is inevitable during transitions. I think with the increased. A time you're on now it should be good and provided she does take longer naps should keep the length of day nice too. I wouldn't increase it again just yet.

Would you mind trying medicating with ibuprofen 20mins before her nap tomorrow to see if it makes a difference?

And yes, we have to be a bit creative with feed times when the A time increases so much. It can lead to an EASAE or AEAS for a while. I would try and do a top up feed 20/30mi s before her nap is due if a feed is due in the middle of it, then perhaps you'll be able to squeeze in a little A time in between xx

[mommykay410]

I definitely think some of it is related to teething, as she is gnawing on everything, drooling galore, a bit of a runny nose and slightly elevated temp every once in a while.  No teeth yet though    I hate to give her any medicine if I don't have to...the doctor has said to only give tylenol so far, so I do have some for emergencies but haven't opened it yet. 

Do you think the short naps and multiple NW are just related to the teething/transition combo? 

I did try to feed her before she went down for her second nap a bit ago but she only ate a little on one side and started to fall asleep.  When I tried to put her on the other side she started crying so I took her up to bed and then had to shhpat for 10 mins to get her calmed to sleep.  I think she was definitely OT from her short morning nap.  She's been sleeping for 45 mins so far, which is better than she's had in a few days, but I'll probably jinx it for typing that haha. 

So I will keep her A times around 3 hr to 3hr 10mins for now? 

[Kellyjs]

Yes I'd keep it steady. We've increased so much, I'd just like to hold it for a week and see what happens. If teething is at play it'll be really difficult to see what A time works best.

Hope the nap went well xx

[mommykay410]

Back again    So we have been doing a 3 hr A time pretty consistently, and her morning naps have been anywhere from 1 hr to 1 hr 45 mins, but mostly closer to the 1 hr/1h10min mark.  Her second naps though are never longer than 30-40 mins.  And she has been waking up 3 times a night, where she used to only wake up once to eat and go right back down.  Some nights she can't seem to go for longer than a 2 hour stretch for the second half of the night.  Her eating times have been all over the place because she doesn't seem to want to eat when it's "time" or she wants to eat again after 2 hours.  When she gets up at night I always feed her because she always eats close to a full meal at those times.  I know I should be trying to get her to eat more during the day so she's not as hungry at night, but I can't seem to do that since she doesn't want to eat when I try to feed her at the appropriate times.  She also seems to wake up early in the morning regardless of whether she went down later or crappy naps.  Poor thing has bags under her eyes and can't seem to get more than 12-13 hours total for a day.  Here was the last few days EASY:

Sunday night
S 7:30p-11:25
E 11:30
S 11:45-2:35a
E 2:55
S 3:10-5:25
(E) 5:35
S 5:40-7:05
Monday morning
E 7:40/8:20
S 10:05-11:15
E 11:30 (one side)
S 1:10p-1:35 (fell asleep in car)
solids 1:50
E 2:55
S 3:55-4:35
E 4:55
solids 5:40
E 6:50
S 7:05-12:45a
E 12:55
S 1:30-3:30
E 3:35
S 3:55-5:55
(E) 6:00
S 6:05-7:00
Tuesday morning
E 7:50/9:10
S 10-11:15
E 11:25
E 1:10p
S 2:20-2:50
E 4:00 (very little)
solids 5:15
E 6:30
S 6:50-11:20
E 11:25
S 11:50-5:55a
E 6:05
S 6:40-7:55
Wednesday morning
E 8:55
solids 9:50
E 10 (one side)
S 11-11:50
E 12:10p
solids 1:50
E 2:15 (little)
S 3-3:20 (rolled to tummy and woke up crying, cried uncontrollably for next 45 mins)
S 4:15-4:35
E 4:45
solids 6:00
E 7:10
S 7:40-9:55
E 10:00
S 10:20-2:25
E 2:30
S 2:50-6:30
Thursday morning
E 7:10/8:20 (little)

I think this morning I should have tried to feed her quick at 6:30 and lay her back down because she is quite tired right now during this A time and isn't eating much.  I just wish I could get her back on a better routine with eating and sleeping.  She has to be so sleep deprived at this point, but I don't know how to get her to sleep more