5 month old-short naps since 4 months

[Kellyjs]

Oh dear, dyt OT may have set in hun? Is that forts nap still long or has that one gone to pot too?

You could try reducing the A a little and see if she catches up? An EBT might work wonders too? Xx

[mommykay410]

OT has definitely caught up  Her first nap was from 8:30-9, second one from 11:30-12, and then I finally got an hour out of her from 2:35-3:35, but I knew that would be the end of naps for the day.  I fed her at 6:25 for the night and she fell asleep while she was eating, so when I put her down in her crib she was not wanting to go back to sleep.  I ended up doing shhpat/trying to feed her again from ~7:10-8:30 when she finally fell asleep.  I'm hoping she can stock up on some more sleep tonight than she has been the past few nights..poor thing 

Oh I also did check Wonder Weeks and she is 26 weeks now and fits the characteristics of that leap/fussy time to a T!!

[Kellyjs]

It does start to make sense doesn't it with the wonder weeks? Funnily enough I used to notice when she was in a sunny period!!

I think OT can catch up with them when they're going through these ww as they're busy trying to learn something new. Perhaps see if you can reduce the A time by 10mins or so tomorrow morning and see if that helps? Xx

[mommykay410]

It seems to be getting worse by the day    For the past week or so she's been waking up crying anywhere from 1-3 hours after going down for bed at night.  I feed her and she falls asleep while eating, so it's near impossible to get her to burp before laying her back down.  Then she gets up again sometime between say 1 and 4, and up for the day between 6:30-7:15.  And her naps are getting shorter by the day too...today was the worst with naps of 45, 30, and 30 minutes.  She hasn't gotten more than 2 total hours of naps in days, and seems to only be totaling ~10.5 hours at night too, so she's definitely not getting enough sleep.  I thought OT would've caught up to her by now and she would've crashed, but apparently not.  I think there is some teething going on now too, which isn't helping the case.  I just wish she could get caught up on her sleep    She's currently at a 2.5 hour A time for each.  Should I be increasing her A time as the day goes on, or keep it the same amount of time between each nap? 

[Kellyjs]

I'd keep it the same for now hun. I think you've definitely got some OT going on. What the A time to BT atm? It could well be after those short naps all day 2.5hrs to BT is too much. My DD always like a short A to BT and was on that at 7mo. Would you mind posting the last couple of days for me including NW's and nap length and we'll see if we can tweak something.

Are you medicating for teething hun? Xx

[mommykay410]

Her A before bed varies depending on if she takes her catnap or not.  Some days she fights it like crazy and other days she takes it but wakes up crying at 30 min on the dot.  It can be anywhere from 2-4 hours.      Here is her schedule for the past few days:

Tuesday night
S 7:15p (shhpat) - 11:45
E 11:50
S 12:20a-3:45
E 4:00
S 4:25-7:15
Wed. morning
E 7:30, 8:40 1T pears
S 9:45-10:45
E 11:00
S 1:25p-1:50
E 2:05, 3:10 1T sweet potatoes
S 4:40-5:05
E 5:10, 6:45
S 7:15-8:45
E 8:50
S 9:20-4:00a
E 4:20
S 4:55-6:35
Thurs. morning
E 7:00, 8:05 1T pears
S 9:20-10
E 10:35, offered one side at 11:45 to top off
S 12:25p-1
E 2:00 (fell asleep while eating for ~10mins but then I tried to move and she woke)
laid down at 3:30, shhpat 3:50-4:25
S 4:25-4:55
E 5:00, 6:45
S 7:35 (shhpat)-8:45
E 8:50
S 9:15-1:20a
E 1:45
S 2:35-4
E 4:25
S 4:45-6:40
Fri. morning
E 7:10 (not really hungry)/8:05 ate full
S 9:05 (shhpat)-9:45
E 10:00

And that's where we're at now.  I will give her some pears around 11:15 and then hope that she takes longer than a half hour nap if I put her down at 12:15.  She has her 6 month checkup and shots today so I was really hoping she'd have caught up on sleep and been well rested before the immunizations.  I have not given her any meds for teething because she doesn't really seem to be in pain and I don't want to give her anything if I don't have to.  So she only got a little over 1.5 hours of naps total yesterday, and maybe 9 hours last night if I count when she fell asleep while nursing before I put her back in her crib.  I was hoping she'd sleep in longer this morning since she was up so many times and for so long, but she was talking and playing when I got her a little before 7.  I would try to do shhpat/pupd when she wakes up early from naps but she wakes up happy from them except the catnap, so I'm not going to make her mad by forcing her to stay sleeping.  Do you think I should try WTS again?  I only did it a couple times because she didn't seem to need it, but maybe that could help now?  The thing is that her times are sort of inconsistent, so I wouldn't really know the best time to go in to do it. 

[Kellyjs]

Ok hun, it looks like she's caught in an UT/OT loop. It is difficult to get out of it, but these immunisations might be your saving grace as they usually sleep quite well after them (hope I haven't jinxed that for you now).

I think the A times need pushing hun, I really believe she's further down the 3-2 than we expected. She's only taking that CN when the other two naps have been crappy am I right? And that nice long first nap seems to have shortened a lot too.

I would work on that first A. Ideally we need to get the first 2 A times closer to 3 hours in order to drop the CN.

On Thursday I see she only had 2hrs 20 first A resulting in an UT nap, then again 2hrs 25mins resulted in an UT nap. This could be because she can handle a full A time after a short nap (mine could), but really it tells us if she can handle that lomg after a short nap she should be capable of handling much more in the morning.

How about we go straight in and jump to 2hrs 45mins first A? Wdyt? She might need a resettle after a sleep cycle until we gets used to this new A time as it is quite a jump, but I'm hoping she should be easier to resettle and get a chance of a longer nap at least. Want to try? Xx

P.s and good call on not trying to get her back to sleep for ages. Many on here do (as I did) and drive ourselves crazy! Xx

[mommykay410]

Yes, she only takes the catnap if she wakes up from her second nap earlier than around 3:30, because otherwise I'd be putting her down for a catnap at 6:00 if she's up for 2.5 hours, so I generally just keep her up at that point.  She needs the catnap when she wakes up early (6:30) and takes the short naps because there's no way she'd make it that long before bed.  I agree, she can do a full A time after a short nap, but she is definitely OT and harder to get to sleep if she had a short nap and regular A time.  I will try the 2 hr 45 min A time tomorrow morning.  Should I do the same for her second nap then too?  Or should I wait and see how long she sleeps and how she is at that point?  She doesn't seem to be doing well with me trying to resettle her back to sleep when she wakes up early, so if she wakes up crying from that first nap I will try to shhpat/pupd, but if she is happy I guess I will just get her up? 

This afternoon she fell asleep when I fed her for about 25 minutes, so that gave her a little extra, but I'm not sure if she'll take a catnap now at this point because she woke up on my a little before 3.  However, that puts her at only 1.5 hours of naps for the whole day again.  Thinking maybe I'll just do an EBT tonight and try to feed her at 6 and have her sleeping by 6:30 so maybe she can catch up on some sleep? 

Side note...We just got back from the pediatrician and I mentioned that she's been taking short naps and getting up a couple times at night for the past few days.  The dr said that I shouldn't feed her that many times at night.  I told her she eats a full meal when she normally gets up once a night between 1 and 4...she said 4 is ok but not 1:00.  She said to either let her cry or pat her if I want.  She also said that her bedtime is too early and that she should go to sleep around 7:30 and that might stop the middle of the night wakings.  Needless to say, I don't necessarily agree with her, as everything I've read in books and online has said that it's normal for EBF babies to wake up at night to feed (especially since she's only in the 37th%ile for her weight right now), and a bedtime of between 6:30-7 is appropriate.  I'm considering switching doctors at this point.  Is it horrible that I trust the opinion of someone online who I've never met (you  ) over the doctor?

[Kellyjs]

So sorry hun, I think I missed your post!! Oh dear, please accept my apologies.  . I've had a hectic few days and haven't checked my messages properly.

How's it going now? I personally don't accept the opinions of doctors when they suggest to let a LO CIO. Unfortunately here that's what midwives, health visitors and doctors suggest because they don't know any better.

You're totally right, I would expect 2 feeds a night at this age, some continue to until solids are firmly established. I really don't think you have a prop issue as she falls asleep independently otherwise xx

Eta just thought, I would be more likely to feed at 1am than 4am anyway as otherwise it'll be less likely for her to be ready for her first feed of the day! Grrr to that doctor!!! Xx

[mommykay410]

No worries!  We had a busy weekend here too.     Thank you for confirming my opinion on the doctor...definitely not a fan anymore.  We've been doing much better with our sleep here!  Saturday she took 1hr 25 min first nap, 1 hr second nap, and then a 10 min catnap with me rocking her as we were at my in-laws house.  She did get up twice to eat, at 9 and 3:30, but she wasn't really eating much during the day, so I knew that would happen.  Yesterday she took a 1hr 45 min first nap and then the rest of the day was all over the place because we drove an hour to my dad's house and she catnapped in the car twice and once at the restaurant during dinner.  But she went down great at 7:25, got up at 4 to eat, and then was up happily at 7:05 this morning.  So the increase in A time was what she needed again!  I think you were right that the shots helped her to catch up on some of that OT sleep too.  I'm hoping that she will continue these longer naps this week and then we can skip the catnaps!

[Kellyjs]

Yay, great news hun. Well done you! You know your LO best, trust your instincts. Neither I nor a doctor can tell you what's best for her ok? You knew she was distracted that day out and was well prepared for an extra feed, great mummy instincts. Hope it continues to go well, do pop back if you need to xx

[mommykay410]

Well apparently I spoke too soon again because those long naps only lasted 2 days    I know we were dealing with some teething issues this week a few days, but still nothing to show for it.  Monday she napped 1 hr in the morning but then 20 mins and 18 mins, Tuesday was 1 hr, 30 min, 30 min, Wednesday 45 mins and 45 mins ending at 2:45pm and then refused catnap, Thursday 50 mins and 1 hr then refused catnap (Those days were all 2 hr 45min/50min A times).  Friday 30 min and 55 min, refused catnap (3 hr A time), and Saturday 1 hr morning then 35 mins afternoon with 3 hr A times.  WU has been anywhere from 6:20-8, but I always feed her around 6:30 and have her in bed sleeping by 7.  She almost always falls asleep while she's eating though since she ends up with such a long A time from 2nd nap to bed when she refuses her catnap.  We change the clocks back next weekend so I'd like to try to push her bedtime this week so she's not waking up at 5:00 in the morning with the change, but I'm not sure how I'm going to keep her up long enough to push it later if she is not napping enough during the day.  She's getting around 10.5-11 hours at night, but only usually a total of 1.5 hours daytime sleep.  Should I be trying to extend her A times even longer than 3 hours?  And if so, what's the longest they should be at this point (6.5 months)? 

[Kellyjs]

Oh no, sorry to hear this hun. How old is she now exactly?

She's obviously refusing the cn's more often than not now isn't she? We might have to bump up the A times again so there's not too lomg of an A time before BT wdyt? Xx

[mommykay410]

She is 28 weeks now.  Yes, I've pretty much given up on the catnaps for the most part.  If her second nap ends too early I try to put her down for it, but when she cries and I go up to shhpat she ends up just playing with my hand and smiling at me, so I don't fight for her to go down since it's usually after 5:00 at that point anyways.  Yesterday her naps were 30 min and 25 min, and then she fell asleep for about 30 mins while nursing around 4:30, which was helpful in getting us to a little later bedtime.  Her A times yesterday were around 3 hr 10 min.  I think part of the reason she is waking up early is because she's hungry.  I'm struggling a bit with when to nurse her with the longer A times.  If I feed her right before nap she ends up falling asleep on me and then doesn't want to go down for nap when she's done eating since she took some of the edge off. 

She's also been getting up 3x a night, which I'm not sure the reason for.  She almost always falls asleep while nursing before bed and then I can't get her to burp or take a full feed.  So if I lay her in her crib at 7, she is already asleep and then has been getting up at say 9:00, 11:15, and 4 for the past couple nights.  Each time I feed her but she falls asleep while eating, so I don't know how much she's eating at that point, and again I can't get her to burp, so then gas becomes a problem.  Today she woke up at 7:15 and napped from 10:25-11:00.  She didn't wake up happy, but I couldn't resettle her so I got her up and fed her.  I was going to try for a little bit longer A time this morning, but she was really fussing so I put her down.  When she takes such a short nap, should I still keep her A time the same to the next nap, or just watch for cues?  She has got to to be getting OT again soon.  She is cranky as can be right now.

[Kellyjs]

Oh (hugs) hun, I hate the crankiness! Have you checked for teeth at all? This is sounding suspiciously like teething behaviour.

Ok, she might be too shattered to take a full feed before BT as you say. This is inevitable during transitions. I think with the increased. A time you're on now it should be good and provided she does take longer naps should keep the length of day nice too. I wouldn't increase it again just yet.

Would you mind trying medicating with ibuprofen 20mins before her nap tomorrow to see if it makes a difference?

And yes, we have to be a bit creative with feed times when the A time increases so much. It can lead to an EASAE or AEAS for a while. I would try and do a top up feed 20/30mi s before her nap is due if a feed is due in the middle of it, then perhaps you'll be able to squeeze in a little A time in between xx