Please Help-Bedtime Issues Worsening-ENW and NW

[JennVanessa1083]

I am sorry to hear you have tendinitis. Sending you love and a speedy recovery.

You are so right. I haven't been consistent. I thought he would emerge with a  consistent natural wake up time but I was wrong. I guess I just felt bad waking him but it has definitely not helped anything.  So to be clear even if he has an awful night still stuck with wake up?

I'm totally new to this; would I still push for A of 2.5? I'm assuming yes. Did you mention one of your LO required a short A to bed. I think mine may require 1 hr after his CN. Is that common?

[lily_layne]

How old is he now?

I think set naps might be less stressful for you than A times - naps are at the same time each day (at most 15/20 minutes earlier if an ewu or short nap).
If he's 6 months or older, I would try this:
WU: 7
S: 930-11
S: 1-230 (or whenever he wakes)
CN if needed (may push BT a bit later)
BT: 7

If he naps later than 3, I would do ebt 3 hrs from wu. I think you were aiming for an 8 wu, so you could adjust accordingly but most baby routines suggest a 7/730 wu as being best for setting their body clocks.

[Shiv52]

We did 8am wake up.  It worked great.

So our day would have looked something like:

8am wake up
10.30am nap
12 wake up
2.30 nap
4 wake up
6.30 CN
7pm wake up
8.30/8.45 bedtime

Mine didn't do 12 hour nights.  The later bedtime suited us as my DH worked late and was only home at 7pm but when DD2 came  along she did a 7.30am start to the day but went to bed earlier to match Dd1.

I know lots have success with EBT but it is important to remember that EBT is a tool to be used for a short time while you are sorting routines. If you do the same bedtime for more than 5/6 then it is no longer EBT and is just bedtime.  And then lots of people get themselves into bother as the day is just too short long term and lots of LOs don't do longer nights longer term. So it is a good tool if you get CN refusal but  I have found personally and also through people's experiences on here that you need to be be sure that night sleep is increasing with EBT and not just giving you a night the same length or only slightly longer as that will mess everything up longer term.   We could have done EBT once in a while when they were really tired and get 12.5/13 hour nights but if we'd tried again the following night we'd have ended up with a supposed 7pm EBT but a 6 am wake up, 2 hours earlier than normal.

[JennVanessa1083]

Thank you ladies for the reply!

Lillian- my LO is just about to be 5 months in a couple of days so not sure if set times would work for him

Shiv- My LO sounds like yours as he has never actually done 12 hour nights; the most is almost 11 1/2 hours. My routine looks similar to gods except with the consistency. Also, my A before bed is an 1 hr but I'm scratching my head on whether he is UT or OT by despite the shortened A, he still wakes up in 30-45 minutes is basically treating BT like another CN I'm hoping waking him up consistently will start to regulate his body clock where he will treat BT like well like BT. I'm also wondering if because he was catching up from accumulated OT, he needed a shortened A to 1 hr because last night his A was 1:15 and he woke up 30 minutes later not crying. He just popped up and took about an hour to go back to sleep for the night. So it would seem like UT behavior but the sleep length says OT. That's where I am all types of confused! Lol

So I'm wondering if my LO would benefit from a 13 hour day rather than a 12?

[Shiv52]

I think even aiming for 12.5 is good. And if you need 13 as he needs a tad more A time after the CN then that is ok.

I do think you need to pick a set wake up for the day and go for it. He seems to need a good amount of A time to be tired enough to sleep at bedtime YK?  I'd probably stick to 1/1h15 after the CN for now while you are waking him in the morning. I do think maybe things a bit more set in terms of wake up may help things even out a bit.   

This is such a tricky time. I found it so much easier once mine were upto 3 hours A time at 6 months and moved to 2 naps of 1.5 hours. And I'd say it won't be too long until you are there.

Hugs. You'll get there xxx

[JennVanessa1083]

Thank you Shiv!

I keep telling myself that it's a phase and that I'm doing the best I can. Hopefully 5/6 months will be much easier in terms of sleep.

Hopefully with waking him up consistently and the new A time will help. It's interesting because he seems to have these wakings 1/2 hr after BT then  hour long wakings from like 9 or so until 10 or So. He is wide awake and resisting being put back to sleep then cries. It's just throwing me for a loop and me being me, I want to just understand why lol but maybe it's one of those things where I won't understand and it is part of his 4 month phase.

[Shiv52]

I know. It's frustrating not knowing why! I think if you can get him up consistently and apply the routine bedtime should get easier. O

Still pally the same as before.  If he short naps reduce next A time slightly and if you need to do an odd early bedtime do. I really found though set naps within reason and set bedtime really helped us xx

[JennVanessa1083]

Yes! I'm realizing he needs consistency which is interesting for me Bc naturally I'm a go with the flow type person but it's not helping him at all lol

Question: if he starts waking himself up on his own I should stretch the A before BT from 1/1 15 minutes to 1.5 right?

The last 3 days he has woke himself up at 7:30 so I'm thinking he may not be tired enough after the CN. He's averaging 11-11.5 hrs of night sleep.

[Shiv52]

Yeah once things even out you may well need a longer A time after the CN. Once it starts to get too long that's when you would look at moving to 2 naps.  How long are you letting him sleep for the CN at the minute? Mine always seemed to need a ridiculous amount of time after even a short nap.

11/11.5 night sleep is great...just want it starting at a more reasonable time!!

[JennVanessa1083]

Haha yes!!! Reasonable time would be absolutely splendid then me and the hubby can have some quality time again. We lost an hour last night Bc he was up so it was below his usual 14.5 average of daily sleep.

When you say even out do you mean he's waking up consistently for a few days or night sleep is between 11-11.5? I agree that he may need longer very soon if not tonight. He seems to need longer A time for naps in general which is why we are at 2.5 but CN is s mystery. Currently, he does 30-35 minutes but I'm thinking of capping at 30 to make it consistent and easier.

I have been doing 1-1.25 A before BT but he still treats it as a CN ranging from 30-45 minutes. Maybe he isn't tired enough?

[Shiv52]

Sorry I mean once he's getting up at a set time you should start to get that good long stretch starting at a reasonable time.  You may have a few shorter nights initially until he starts to realise bedtime is bedtime and not a CN but the longer day should help short that out.

Let me know how you go xx

[JennVanessa1083]

Thank you Shiv!

I'll keep you posted!

Xx

[JennVanessa1083]

So I forgot to mention that my naps are shortened by a bit deposite the 2.5 A. Not sure if I should work on any tweaks. This is how today went:

NW 9:24, 10:14-11:24, 4:48am

WU: 7:38 am
E: 8:10 am
A
S 10:06-11:36 am (A  2:28; not enough wind down; was irritable and didn't settle had to hold him; woke up at 33 minutes crying resettled in my arms put him down then he cried again resettled in my arms)
E 11:53 am
A
S 2:05-3:26 (A 2:29; cried a bit self settled while I jiggled the mattress)
E 3:38 pm
A
E 4:53 pm (top up)
A
S 5:46- 6:32 (A 2:20; self settle but was fussy and moving a lot; jiggled cot to calm him down then shh pat)
E 6:38 pm
A
E 7:53 pm (top up)
S 8:12-9:27 pm (A 1:40; jiggled was fighting sleep and hyper; woke up at 37 resettled; maybe UT)
E 9:40 pm
S 9:50-

[Shiv52]

It can take a few days to lengthen so I wouldn't tweak any more for now. 2.5 A time and set wake up is enough change for now x

[JennVanessa1083]

Ok sounds great! Will keep you posted

One great note, LO slept great. He woke up a half hour after BT but resettled quickly. Then only woke up twice later at night to eat then went straight back to sleep. A big improvement from 1-2 hr NW!

Today he got shots so his sleep is all over the place so we will pick right up tomorrow