Please Help-Bedtime Issues Worsening-ENW and NW

[Shiv52]

We did an 8-8 day and it was perfectly fine. I don't like to encourage wake ups before 7/7.30 because EWs can then be ridiculously early.

I think you need to just keeping plugging away with getting A times up and spacing the feeds. Until you've a bit of consistency it will be hard to work out exactly what's going on.

[JennVanessa1083]

Hi!

I was wondering what it means when a baby wakes up between 50-55 minutes? Easy to settle most times, but wakes up upset.

[creations]

This is quite tricky to answer in isolation, it really all depends how your overall routine looks and what changes you are making at the time and if it's a regular thing to wake at 50 mins.
For instance mine could wake up at a time after he had transitioned to his next sleep cycle at 40 mins but before his full nap was complete, he'd be upset, crying, and I could resettle him back to sleep.  He was UT for his nap.  Many times we say an UT baby wakes at the end of one sleep cycle and tends to wake relatively happily but it's not always the case.  This is why it helps to look at the whole routine and what LOs habits are.  A 50-55 min nap *could* be due to this.  But it could also be down to something else,  noise, too hot, too cold, an external sound waking him, pain, habit...

It could also be his natural sleep cycle length.  Tracy said sleep cycles were 40 mins long (my DS had exactly 40 mins), often on the forums we see 45 mins (possibly more so than 40 mins) but sometimes we find a LO with a 30 min sleep cycle which can really cause a confusion and I've seen a few of those over the years. It's logical that if there are some individuals with a 30 min cycle then there could also be LO with a 50 min cycle, yk?

Sorry, I know it's not the straight forward answer you might have hoped for but I hope this helps to explain why it is often difficult to look at times in isolation of the bigger picture.
xx

[JennVanessa1083]

Thanks for answering creations!

I figured it wouldn't be a straight answer but thought it was worth a try. I do have another post on the NW forum bc I am having issues with early evening waking a and bedtime.

Anyways, I have just pushed the A time to 2 hours for my LO (he's 16 weeks), it's been a couple of days now. Over the weekend, the routine was very loose due to visiting family so he took crappy naps yesterday. However, he slept 9 1/2 hrs straight last night but did still have early NW. All this to say that I'm guessing it's OT?

Funny thing is that his cycle was always 43-45 minutes. Is it possible that it changes as baby gets older?

[JennVanessa1083]

Thank you ladies!

We were away for the last two days so I was following the routine VERY loosely. Good news though, he slept 91/2 hours straight last night!! Of course he didn't finally fall asleep until around 11:30 but I'm hopeful that it will get better. I started stretching out feeds a bit and making sure he takes a full feed before BT. I used to just let him be asleep if he fell asleep but now I wake him up to finish then sing to him rather falling asleep on the breast.

His naps are doing better. Although I'm still having to resettle at times, but it is not difficult and I am not feeding him in between sleep cycles.


I will keep you posted on whether A times will help the bedtime issue bc bedtime is still a disaster.

[lily_layne]

That's a good update If he's resettling easily I would take it as a sign that you're on the right track for A times.

I think between establishing an earlier WU and extending your A times, BT should improve.

[JennVanessa1083]

I do hope so! Tonight was the same at bedtime. Actually still trying to make him fall asleep. I tried for 1.5 A right after CN bc he was yawning and fussy. I did his bath and bedtime routine which took 1/2 hr...he woke up 35 minutes later. Do you think his A May have been too long or too short? This is all so confusing.

[Shiv52]

Hope you'd a lovely time away! 

Resettling is not uncommon when you first move up A times and think about all the changes he is going through with not being fed. It will take a while for him to resettle himself. When you're resettling how long are naps. I had to resettle naps at 4/5 months for ages. I used to run in at 35 mins and stick a dummy in then ssh pat for a minute and then she'd make it through the transition.

Can you describe your nap routine? How awake is he going down. Is there a feed in the 10 mins before a nap?

[creations]

his cycle was always 43-45 minutes. Is it possible that it changes as baby gets older?

I think in Tracy's book she mentions that the cycle begins to lengthen at 6 months. I didn't see that in my LO and generally haven't seen it amongst the threads either really, not until 1yo.  There are several sleep sites/info sources that say by 1yo an infant's sleep cycle is similar to that of an adult.

[JennVanessa1083]

Hi Shiv!

Yes we had a great time visiting family 😃

As for the resettling, usually he can sleep about 1.5-1.75 after being resettled. Sometimes resettling can be as easy as helping him roll over or giving him a quick jiggle then he's back to sleep; at most it can take 10 minutes when he is OT.

Usually about a half hour before nap time I switch to low key so it can be reading a book, sitting and playing with hands, or looking at a toy. Then, 15 minutes before, I start walking around with him to get him drowsy then go to the bedroom and shutting blinds, white noise, put him zippy, rock him for a second until he's calm (zippy makes him excited). By that time he fusses to lay him down. He rolls over and sucks on his zippy and falls asleep.

I usually feed him 30-45 minutes before the nap.

[JennVanessa1083]

Hmmmm that's interesting maybe he was uncomfortable then...

Question: what do I do with A when baby takes UT nap? My baby just passed out (granted he didn't have the best night) a half hour before his A time ends. I have to wake him up to get the laundry so it will definitely resort to a short nap. He does 2 hrs but fell asleep cold at 1.5. Do I shorten next A to avoid an OT nap?

Thank you!

[Shiv52]

Sounds good lovely. I think it will just take a bit for things to fall into place and once you've the A time pushed and feedings separated you probably want to reduce the rocking a bit so he's going down a bit more awake so a couple of minutes off rocking as opposed to 15 but for now if that's working it is fab. You are much further on than I thought where independent  sleep in concerned so well done you guys!!!!

How is the 2 hour A time working out?  Do you think it is enough?  Too much?  What are you thinking about bedtime and wake up?

[Shiv52]

Just to let you know I saw your naps post and I've merged it here so all your info is in one place as I do think your naps and NWs are all routine related so it's better to have it in one place.

To answer your question depending on how long he slept you would shorten the A time a bit but when trying to establish a new A time there will be an element of OT and it's important to keep aiming for 2 hours as much as possible.

[JennVanessa1083]

Thanks Shiv! I appreciate it  Wasn't sure to post the nap question here but of course I like it all in one place since as you said it is routine related.

Yes I'm so happy my LO is learning independent sleep. Naps are no problem; it seems as though the zippy has helped him learn this skill as well as me attempting to give him more space to self soothe. He's been in the zippy since two months. Anyways, I agree with the rocking dwindling as time goes on.

Even though he self settles for naps, lately it's been hard at bedtime. It seems OT is the culprit as he wakes up 30 later crying or just really fussy. Then I'll put him down again and the same thing. Last night he finally fell asleep at around 11 and slept around 7 hrs straight so the NW have improved, yay!!

I think the A time is working pretty well although as I mentioned he will wake up at 50-55 minutes crying so I'm assuming it's OT? Which could be him still adjusting to 2 hrs A. Part of me thinks he may be able to handle more but I rather wait to see if his naps improve on 2 hrs.

I think for today I won't shorten A after the last nap bc I'm afraid of another UT nap. He napped for 40 minutes on his own. Would this be the right approach.

[JennVanessa1083]

Question: if LO takes a full nap instead of a CN for last nap, is it typical they won't go to sleep despite doing a full A time of 2 hrs?