Weaning 19 month old from co sleeping

[Mel_bhs2010]

He hated his crib so for survival we coslept..we recently bought a toddler bed and let him "help" put it together and he loves it..with done nursing and soothing he had fallen asleep in it the past 3 nights, but it hasn't been more than 2 hours and after he crawls into my bed to nurse and we both end up falling back asleep..I eventually want him to sleep through the night in his bed in his room.

For now, due to a lawsuit I won't get into, our big family bed was taken and were stuck with a full size in the living room.I'm sleeping on it, hubby is on the couch, and son is in his bed until he wakes and crawls into bed with me.I want to do this as gently as possible..
Any tips?

[Mel_bhs2010]

He's a typical baby, usually a deep sleeper
He wakes at 8 every morning, but his naps vary..if I'm working he sleeps about 1-3 on a good day but if in home he sleeps about 45 minutes and naps around 12 on a good day.  I try to get him in bed by 8 but he usually finally sleeps around 10

[cath~]

Hi there and welcome to BW

We can certainly help with some gentle techniques to get your DS sleeping more in his own bed.

Since he hasn't been an independent sleeper before then Gradual Withdrawal (GW) would be the technique we'd recommend.  This is describe in more detail here:
Toddlers: Walk In/Walk Out vs. The Gradual Withdrawal Method (HOW TO CHOOSE)

Have a read and let me know if you have any qns about how to implement it for your DS.

Also, how do you currently settle him for naps and BT?  What's his BT routine like?  This will help us advise the best way to get started with GW.

You can use the same method that you use to settle him at BT (i.e. whatever stage of GW you're at) to settle him when he wakes at night.

I try to get him in bed by 8 but he usually finally sleeps around 10

What happens during those 2 hrs?  Does it make any difference how long his nap has been during the day?  It might be that you need to pull BT a bit earlier, esp on days when he's only had a 45 min nap.  Taking that long to nod off could be a sign that he's overtired (OT).

Oh, and if you want some inspiration/insight from other people who have had success with GW, this is a great thread to read:
Success Stories for Sleep Training (please post link here)

[Mel_bhs2010]

Thank you :-)
His usual routine is a snack, (because if not he wakes up started at about 3,) bath, story and song, then nurse to sleep but I'm trying to gently wean him from that, too.

For naps if in home he asks to nurseif I'm home, if not he usually watches tv until he sleeps, if his daddy puts him down for a nap he sleeps on his chest.

From 8-10 he tries to get me to play, last night I tried to put him to bed at 10 and avoid the mess and he was asleep in less than 10 minutes..but he woke at 12:45.
I can handle a late bedtime if he would just stay asleep all night..He comes to me for comfort and I don't know how to tell him he doesn't need me without breaking his heart...He had a lovie.but when I try and give it to him in the middle of the night he throws it away and points to it and says it's mean.

Thank you for your response reading through the material now

[cath~]

Ah, have a read of this link too:
Gentle Removal Plan

I think the first thing to work on is to get him nodding off initially with less help.

Let me know what you think when you've read through everything.

[Mel_bhs2010]

I like the gentle removal plan for middle of the night wake ups, what do you think of his daddy putting him to sleep at the first part of the night, so he doesn't have access to the breast?
Or should i just continue to gently remove the breast? The past 2 nights he has been soothed with it but fallen asleep without it.
I like the gradual withdrawal method but for now we are all stuck in the living room, at least until the end of the week.

[Mel_bhs2010]

I'm just so overwhelmed and scared it's gonna hurt our bond..but we've had to down size our bed and there's no room, I also think it's just time..

[Martini~]

Honey if I may support. Yes it will change something in your life but if you do it gently it doesn't mean that it will break his trust in you. Imagine that there are things in your life which he wants but not always are good for him or for you. He will protest if you take them away but it doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. So I would think about it as a next stage of raising your child.

Of course it should be done only if you want to do it. Sleeping with a child in smaller bed is also possible. Do think of your reasons why you want to change it...

[Mel_bhs2010]

Well there's a few reasons
we went from written to full sized bed, and now daddy is on the couch..
I wake him up more often than he wakes himself up
I have a bad back and when he's in the bed I sleep a certain way, and then my back hurts all day
We're thinking of another and while we won't cosleep as long, I'd still like to cosleep with the next one..
We've been thinking about it for a while, I think it's finally time lol

[cath~]

what do you think of his daddy putting him to sleep at the first part of the night, so he doesn't have access to the breast?

I think that's a great plan if you're all happy to go with that. 

Otherwise, you can use GR plan at BT as well, not just for NWs. However, if he can get used to going down without a BF with your DH for a few days then I think that if you then did BT, you should not BF.  He would likely protest at first but you would be there with him and reassure him that it's OK.  I'd think that after maybe around 3 days of him asking to BF (protesting) when you put him down he'd stop asking and accept the new way of nodding off.  (I have BTDT with my DD2).

I like the gradual withdrawal method but for now we are all stuck in the living room, at least until the end of the week.

You can still start with GW.  Eg each BT try to settle him with a bit less contact and then start to sit further away from him as he nods off.

I'm just so overwhelmed and scared it's gonna hurt our bond..but we've had to down size our bed and there's no room, I also think it's just time..

So long as you stay with your LO to start with (i.e. don't to CC or CIO) then no, stopping BFing him to sleep will not hurt your bond.  You will be there with him to give comfort (e.g. with your voice/a reassuring hand/cuddle) and assuring him that he can nod off without needing a BF.


Let us know what you decide to do and we're all here to hold you hand and help you through it

[Mel_bhs2010]

I think I'm gonna do GR and just do it myself, I think if I had my husband do it, then it would be harder on the baby. The routine has always been bath and book with daddy and song and bed with mommy and switching it might confuse him.

[Mel_bhs2010]

He has fallen asleep without it in his mouth the past 2 nights, but he still wants to nurse in his bed, I'm gonna see if he will nurse, then lay down without too much heartbreak..
Do you think that is too far from what he's used to?
Thanks for all your support and help! I really need it lol

[Mel_bhs2010]

He had a short nap today so I tried getting him to go to bed earlier but he was having none of it, fought until 10 but finally fell asleep, just woke up a little bit ago (10:45) but settled immediately when he saw me and let me pat him back to sleep..which probably took under a minute..He's such a good boy..

Btw,I got a new phone and autocorrect hates me..That's why at least one word in all of my posts don't make sense lol

[cath~]

He has fallen asleep without it in his mouth the past 2 nights, but he still wants to nurse in his bed, I'm gonna see if he will nurse, then lay down without too much heartbreak..
Do you think that is too far from what he's used to?

I think you should give it a go and if it's too big a step for him then take a smaller step instead. 
With GW, I find it's always good to try to find how much you *can* push your LO as it can make the whole process much quicker, less drawn out and, in the end, easier on everyone.  Does that make sense?

settled immediately when he saw me and let me pat him back to sleep..which probably took under a minute..

that sounds good   However, with the short nap, fighting BT then waking 45 mins after, it does sound like classic OT.  If you get such a short nap again, I'd be inclined to try BT even earlier to see if that helps.

I got a new phone and autocorrect hates me..That's why at least one word in all of my posts don't make sense lol

I have the same problem with my phone too!  Such a pain

[Mel_bhs2010]

He wasnt ready to have no Boobie before bed, I have out to him until he was released enough to go without it, and after about ten minutes of blinking and holding the boob he finally pushed me away and fell asleep, how early would you suggest?

He woke again at 1, after I settled him after that he slept until 830..what time would you suggest bedtime on good nap days, and what time on bad nap days

[cath~]

what time would you suggest bedtime on good nap days, and what time on bad nap days

well, it depends a lot on what his sleep needs are and when he naps, but if he's average, say, then after a 8am WU and a 2hr nap (not too late in the day) then BT around 9pm would probably be typical.  If he has a short nap, say 45 mins, then I'd try for BT around 7.30pm.

Do you have a feel for whether he's low, average or high sleep needs?  When does he usually nap?

What time does he usually nap?  Did you say that BT was always the same (in terms of how quickly/easily he settles) regardless of nap length?

[Mel_bhs2010]

12/12:30 with me and 1/1:30 without me are when he usually naps, hes usually pretty easy to settle until the change but I think that's more in correlation to how I've weren't about it rather than the way he sleeps, warm mommy bed and nursing. He usually tells me when he's tired, I rarely have to notice signs of naptime, the only times I've witnessed those are times when I absolutely couldn't put him down, he had always given me some cue right as he gets slept, and since he started walking he would actually tell me night night and take me to where he knows a bed is for naps and if we end up staying somewhere close to start of his BT routine

He skipped a nap altogether today and went to bed about 8, he had a three hour nap yesterday and wouldn't settle until nearly 11.  I'm not here for his naps and I feel like this isn't working..I'm a little discouraged today.

[Mel_bhs2010]

This week he has gone to sleep in his big boy bed everyday without the boob in his mouth, I feel like I'm stuck on step 1 and I'm unsure of what step two is

[cath~]

This week he has gone to sleep in his big boy bed everyday without the boob in his mouth, I feel like I'm stuck on step 1 and I'm unsure of what step two is

so ATM are you feeding him until he's sleepy and then put him down in his bed?

Does he nod off with you just sitting next to him or do you have a hand on him or any contact?  That will affect what the next step is.  If you have some contact with him, try to gradually reduce that.  If you don't have any contact with him, try sitting a little further away from him as he nods off.

How sleepy is he when you put him down?

[Mel_bhs2010]

He's very sleepy when I put him down, but the contact changes daily..some days he had to be touching the boob..but 2/3 he had no contact but has to be looking at me. If I move he gets up and we start over.

Today his room is all the way put together..He has played in it all day and "helped" me move his bed in there. Pretty nervous about tonight.

I let his sleep with me last night all night because he was OT, he didn't nap for the babysitter and even though bt started at 6 right after he had some food, he fought and fought until nearly midnight and I just let him sleep with me..and bore I feel super guilty that I gave in "/

[cath~]

Please don't feel guilty at all!  You did what you both needed.  There is nothing wrong with co-sleeping when it helps everyone.  I think Tracy Hogg said something like "it's only a problem if it's a problem".  It's so tough being a mum.  You shouldn't heap extra guilt on yourself for simply sleeping with your baby.  Please don't feel bad sweetie

Since he's moving to a new room - I'd keep your BT routine the same and don't introduce any further changes for now.  The new room will be a big enough change for him already.

However, once he's settled in it and accepted that this is where he's sleeping, then you can work on the GW a bit more.  Try to stop the contact with you completely as a first step (you can still give him a reassuring pat/rub if he needs it, just try not to make it constant contact iyswim, so he nods off without it).  Then gradually move your sitting position further away from him.  I mean over the course of days/weeks, not during a single BT.  Does that make sense?

((hugs)) and lots of vibes for a good BT in his new room xx

[Mel_bhs2010]

Thank you, I feel a little better about it..maybe he's just not ready yet..i feel awful for pushing him to go into his bed in the first place but when he stays the whole night in my bed my back hurts so bad. We're looking into new bedroom suits and I might get a king size to accommodate him..

he was a little scared of his room so I moved his bed back into the living room and he played in it immediately, I'm gonna give him a few more days to get used to his room and try again, he immediately got up to pay in it this morning so that's a good sign.

[Mel_bhs2010]

Reread some posts and I'm so embarrassed at the way auto correct makes me sound..I'm literate! I promise! Just not good at proofreading I suppose lol

[cath~]

k you, I feel a little better about it..maybe he's just not ready yet..i feel awful for pushing him to go into his bed in the first place but when he stays the whole night in my bed my back hurts so bad. We're looking into new bedroom suits and I might get a king size to accommodate him..

you have to do whatever works for you all as a family.

What I meant was don't feel bad about co-sleeping, esp if it's what you both need (like the other night).  However, when it's not working (because it hurts your back, you're not getting enough sleep..) then also don't feel bad about finding a gentle way to help change things so that the whole family gets the sleep they need.  It's totally your decision.  And don't feel bad about whatever decision you make

he was a little scared of his room so I moved his bed back into the living room and he played in it immediately, I'm gonna give him a few more days to get used to his room and try again, he immediately got up to pay in it this morning so that's a good sign.

sounds like a good plan x

[cath~]

Reread some posts and I'm so embarrassed at the way auto correct makes me sound..I'm literate! I promise! Just not good at proofreading I suppose lol

Don't worry - we're used to ready all sorts of crazy typos/autocorrects here! 

[Mel_bhs2010]

I just feel bad because he's pushing back so hard, but the hardest lesson as a parent, for me at least, is that just because he doesn't like it or is scared of it doesn't mean it isn't good for him.
He went to sleep in his room last night after an hour of fighting. I told him to get in his bed last night and he tried to get in mine. He woke up at 1 am freaked out because for the first time he was alone, but came right to my bed and thats where he spent the rest of the night, which I can handle part time cosleeping for now.

Tonight he went to sleep after a half hour of fighting, so that's good, he also got a new night light that shows pictures of Mickey mouse on the ceiling and he kept saying "look!! The sky!!" He doesn't really know who Mickey is but it helped him tonight, I think.  We also got a baby monitor and showed him you can talk to it from the other room but I don't think he understood much of that..we've stayed on this step and I think I can actually handle it for now..I might move on to the next step Monday or Tuesday because those are my days off and I can handle less sleep those days..

My silly boy woke up at 1 am and freaked out, but while he was crying he decided to play with his favorite truck haha..He was quite the sight crying his eyes out and screaming like he was being murdered (he's a drama king lol) but also rolling his truck around on the floor lol he even tried to bring it to bed. He's too funny I don't know how I ever smiled without him

[Mel_bhs2010]

He woke again at 1am with no tears, just came right to me
I asked him if he wanted to go night night and we have a silly night night song and March we do in the way to bed, well tonight he led and got straight into bed. I'm not sure how long it took tonight because I forgot to check the time when he finally let me leave, but I can definitely see done purges on his bedtime and my back!

[Mel_bhs2010]

See some Progress*

[Mel_bhs2010]

He woke at 12 whining but I used the talk back feature of our baby monitor to shush him and he fell straight back to sleep, and then woke again around 230 and crawled into bed with me. I think with less touch to go to sleep the longer he will stay in bed but I'm not sure, I'm fine with part time cosleeping though. At least for now, my job is seasonal and I think he misses me while I'm gone so I think I can handle the partial cosleeping until I'm through working. Then he will have me all day long and won't need as much connection at night

[cath~]

Hi,

Sorry for not getting back sooner. It sounds like you've been making great progress!

I can handle part time cosleeping for now.

and that's totally fine if it works well for you

while he was crying he decided to play with his favorite truck haha..He was quite the sight crying his eyes out and screaming like he was being murdered (he's a drama king lol) but also rolling his truck around on the floor lol he even tried to bring it to bed. He's too funny I don't know how I ever smiled without him

LOL!  He sounds like a lovely character

So pleased to read your updates.  Let me know if you have any other qns

[Mel_bhs2010]

Last night was rough..we were out and about and wouldn't made it home by bedtime if we hadn't gotten stick in traffic, apparently there was an awful wreck on the interstate and we were stuck with a sleepy baby and didn't get home until 11, he went back and forth from wanting me and hating me, and from crying and watching cartoons on my phone.
We got him in bed at 11 and he fell right to sleep, he stayed in bed until 2am and came to me and woke up for the day at 9:30 this morning

[cath~]

Ah, that sounds like a tough evening! 
Hope tonight is more "normal" x

[Mel_bhs2010]

Thanks!