Advice on BF intervals - with they even out (do they need to?) & confession...

[Jules77]

Hi,

I've posted on here a couple of times now and tried to keep positive in my posts, but I think I need to be frank about things now. My second child is now 7 weeks old. Eldest is 3y4m. This is hard, really hard, the toughest thing I've ever done (and I have a very demanding job and enjoy endurance based exercise - doing hard stuff isn't something I shy away from...).

I've accepted now that I have some form of PND (although doctor still refers to them as baby blues - whatever we call it, I'm not myself at all, and cry lots, lose the plot for very little reason and often just want to walk away from it all). I'm doing my best to keep on top of things emotionally. Unfortunately I have seem to have one or two obsessions developing.

Sleep and what happens in between sleeps - eg feeding.

It is basically all I think about. I think my lo is pretty good generally, he latches ok (although pretty windy and grunts/seems unsettled when sleeping quite often), and I have worked out a way to get him to fall asleep without too many bad sleep associations. However, all I think about are the timings of his feeds and therefore when he will sleep, how long he sleeps for, is he getting enough food, when will he STTN, how can I help him STTN.

I think this all stems from the fact that I am not getting as much sleep as I need (DS1 was a great sleeper from about 4m and I've got used to a decent nights sleep for last 3 y) and I desperately want to get to STTN stage so that I can be 'normal' again.

So, the thing currently occupying my mind is whether he is getting enough food during the day and if this is impacting on NW and therefore my sleep (wow I sound so selfish....so sorry).

I would put down our 'typical' day, but we don't seem to have one I can pin down.

Our first nap of the day is in a pram so that I can do drop off for DS1. LO sleeps quite well at this stage and I usually wake him to ensure no more than 3.5 hours between naps.

The next interval will probably be 2.5 hours before next feed (so we go 6 hours from 1st feed to 3rd feed). Then, well, who knows. Most likely 2.5-3hr gap giving a feed somewhere around 3.30-4.00.

Then the evening is a law unto itself. Please bear in mind I have a 3 year old who needs picking up between 4-5pm and is very demanding of my time (understandably).

After 3.30/4.00 feed I now try to get LO to sleep by putting him in baby carrier for walk to pick up DS1. This should produce about 0.5-0.75 hr of sleep. LO then seems to want feeding at 5.30 (sometimes earlier) so I do. In order to ensure DS1 can get a decent bedtime too (and more often than not he wants me involved/partner is late home from work) I try to then feed LO again around 6.15/6.30 and have him in bed around 7pm so that DS1 can be attended to (if it is bath night - every other - I fit this in between feeds). I cannot seem to stretch this out yet to the BW 6pm/8pm cluster feeds so our last feed of the day is quite early. Not sure how else to manage things to be able to handle DS1 as well. Then its dinner and in bed by 9pm. My partner does dream feed with formula at 10.45pm.

LO usually then gets through to 2am-3am when wakes for a feed. Then its fingers crossed and who knows, sometimes through to 7.00, sometimes awake at 5.00, sometimes 6.00.

So, additional questions:

Should I try to even out the feeds to every 3 hours, or are they regular enough during the day? I guess I'm asking as I'm a bit worried that if I knock down the first nap of the day it won't get caught up later in the day.

Do you have any suggestions for the evening?  I guess my concern is that 6.15-6.30 is an early time for a last feed it may ultimately affect his ability to push his night feeds later on (or does the dream feed help with that). See, selfish me again, just wants to get more sleep.

Should I feed again at 8.00 after I've had dinner while LO asleep (sort of inline with BW suggestion for 4 weeks to 4 m)?

If I just need to chill out and let him get on with it please tell me. My brain goes round in circles on this stuff all day and night. In my work life I am very organised and totally in control of everything I do and the transition this time seems impossible to handle. But I'm trying, I'm not sure even if was a good idea to write this post as it just plays to my problems. I have seen my GP by the way, I see a counsellor for the first time tomorrow. Hoping it will help.

This all feels like one long ramble now so I'll stop. Thanks to anyone who manages to get to the end of the post.

Jules

[*Ali*]

Hi Jules and welcome to BW. 

 It sounds like you guys are doing just great so I really wouldn't worry about whether the feeds are exactly 3hrs apart. Those routines in the book are just guidelines/examples. There is no need to get your baby to fit into them exactly. Things will keep changing as LO gets older and goes through growth spurts anyway so no routine will stay the same for long. I think you are doing the right thing just listening to your baby and working around what you need to.

I am also a person who likes to be in control so I know how hard it is to let go when you are deal with babies who have their own agenda. It's taken my until my third to relax into it completely I think. just remember it won't be like this forever and soon you will have longer between feeds and sleeps to fit in more time with your older LO. Sometimes I would feed baby while reading to my older ones or I would sit with them nd do a jigsaw or homework etc. It's all about the multitasking with more than one child, isn't it?

Glad to hear you've seen the GP about your PND. I hope the counselling helps. Maybe check out our PPD board if you would like some support/handholding. Post Partum Depression

[Katet]

It sounds like you guys are doing just great so I really wouldn't worry about whether the feeds are exactly 3hrs apart. Those routines in the book are just guidelines/examples. There is no need to get your baby to fit into them exactly. Things will keep changing as LO gets older and goes through growth spurts anyway so no routine will stay the same for long. I think you are doing the right thing just listening to your baby and working around what you need to.

This ^^

The first few months with any baby is hard, but even my friends with 4 or 5 children says the first 6 months with the 2nd child was the hardest over all.  BF intervals are much harder to be on time because it is digested differently to formula & the research on the timing is now a bit outdated.

Lack of sleep is an issue, my thought would be if you only have DS2 during the day if the baby naps you nap too, the night feeds you have at the moment ( 6ish then 10.45pm then 2/3am & 5/6am) really are very good for a 7 week old who is BF.

As someone who struggled with PPD (caused by lack of sleep as the main issue) I think rather than try & get the magic feed/sleep patterns to help, look at where you can maximise your sleep within the existing time frame, it is actually easier to adjust a toddler than a baby, because the baby goes through so many growth spurts etc & the feeds change because of the demands on growth etc, also although not related to BF,  remember your toddler isn't going to worry about a tidy house or clean clothes etc they only care about Mummy being there for cuddles etc, so working out the "most important things for your time" (sleep being there) rather than the "should" was really my best move when working through my stress over being woken every 2 hours at night & the extra physical demands on my body being a milk source.

[Jules77]

Thanks both for your input. It is much appreciated.

I am doing must best to relax more with regarding to feeding and sleeping times.

First counselling session was odd, left feeling quite annoyed by the questions I'd been asked as they seem to be critical of my parenting, but I think in hindsight she was trying to work out what sort of person I am so will keep going with it. Thanks for letting me know about the PPD forums.

I'm also working on how to get more sleep. Going to try for a nap now in fact.

Thank you.

Jules