5 Month Old Nap Issues!

[jhs4ess]

Hi Everyone,

I've had nap issues with my LB since he was about 2 months old and I'm guilty of doing anything and everything to get him to have a decent amount of sleep during the day. I ended up having to walk around with him in his carrier to get him to sleep and then hold him in my arms and even then he wouldn't sleep longer than 45mins!

Last week I decided enough is enough so I have started doing PUPD with him in his cot, today was Day 2 and there wasn't any improvement from yesterday. I'm struggling with the EASY routine because firstly he isnt hungry first thing in the morning because he still has a NF between 3 and 5am, and then goes back to sleep until 7ish. He won't even entertain the idea of eating until at least 8am. Then it is taking a long time to get him to sleep using PUPD and then he is waking up after 20/30mins and no amount of PUPD will get him back to sleep. He looks as though he's about to settle back down and then he just starts chatting and playing as though he has gone passed the tiredness.

Because of this he is often ready for another nap when he is supposed to be having his next feed! Today I was trying to keep him up for the recommended length of activity time despite his short naps but he ended up so overtired!

Lastly and the thing that confuses me no end! At bedtime, I put him into his cot awake and he just goes to sleep! He does use a dummy but if he loses it he can settle himself. Last night I put him down at 18:15 and he was asleep by 18:30. He then slept until 04:45 when he woke for a feed. I don't understand if he can put himself to sleep and resettle himself when he wakes at night why he is struggling during the day?

Any advice anybody can offer would be greatly appreciated!

[lily_layne]

That's actually quite normal for an LO to be able to self-settle at night but not at naps - day and night sleep are controlled by different parts of their brains.

Can you post a typical day for me? It's possible you need a routine change as well as doing PU/PD.

[jhs4ess]

Oh really? I didn't know that, that explains that!

TBH we don't really have a typical day as we've been completely baby led. He tends to get up around 7pm and we start bedtime routine any time between 17:30 and 18:15. We've been trying to make it later but because of his nap issues he's ready for bed by then. He feeds every 3.5 to 4 hours and i've just been getting him to nap in his carrier whenever I thought he needed it.

The last 3 days i've been trying to use the 4 hour routine in the books but this is where I am having difficulty because of his napping. Today has been a funny day anyway because he woke up at 5:30 and I couldn't get him back to sleep but this is where we are so far:

05:30 wake up, left him in his cot to see if he would settle, gave him his dummy after about 20 mins. Still didn't settle, left him again and he just chatted and played until 06:50 when he began to fuss so I got him up.

06:50 Get up and nappy change.

07:00 Eat

07:45 Because he'd woken so early and was getting cranky I took him upstairs to start wind down.

08:00 Put him in his cot, after a few mins of chatting he started crying so went in and started PUPD. It took 15mins to get him to sleep.

08:15 - 08:35 Sleep - He looked as though he was trying to go back to sleep (video monitor) so I left him for 15mins until he started to fuss, went and tried to shush him but he wasn't having any of it so I got him up at 9am.

09:00-09:45 Activity - By this time he was showing tired signs and getting cranky so I decided to try for another nap before his feed. Took him upstairs and put him down at 10am. It only took 10 mins of PUPD to get him to sleep.

10:10-10:40 Sleep - Again he looked like he might go back to sleep so I left him but after 10 mins he was just playing.

11am Eat.

11:20 - 12:45 Activity

12:40 Wind Down - 20 mins of PUPD

13:10 - 13:30 Sleep. Again looked as though he wanted to go back to sleep so left him to it. He started crying after 10 mins.

13:40 - 14:10 PUPD He started to settle at 14:00 so I stayed in the room, looked as though he was dropping off but then all of a sudden he was wide awake again and chatting so I got him up.

He's now had activity until I feed him at 15:00 and I don't know when to try him again! He's having short activity periods because of the short naps but I don't know if I'm making it worse. I'm not sure why he keeps waking up after 20-30mins, do you think he is undertired or overtired?!

Thank you for your help!

[jhs4ess]

OK so he was very drowsy on his bottle and had been up for nearly 2 hours after a 20min nap so I tried him for a nap again at 15:20 and he's just cried for half an hour, worse than the first time I tried PUPD. He got himself in such a state he couldn't stop coughing so I had to stop. Feeling like a failure :-(

[lily_layne]

I don't have time for a detailed post right now but just needed to give you hugs and say you are NOT a failure! Remember that it's just sleep and a baby that isn't napping the way you want is not a judgment on your competency as a mother. You are doing the best that you can and that's all any of us can do.

I will try to pop back on tonight and look over your routine and help make a plan.

[jhs4ess]

Thank you so much!

[lily_layne]

The short naps sound like OT to me. Do you feel that you have the stamina for PU/PD or do you want to try something gentler? Have you tried sh/pat at all? Has he ever napped longer than 45 minutes? It is possible he may just be a short napper but we'll have to try getting him on a good routine before we know for sure.

If you're feeling that you can handle it (and if you have some help) I would try something like this:
WU: around 7
S: 9 (or 8:45 if he seems tired) - start PU/PD aiming for sleep around 9:15
If he wakes sooner than 10:15/10:30 try PU/PD for 30 minutes
S: 12:30/12:45 - start PU/PD aiming for sleep at 1. Try to get at least to 12:30 regardless of first nap. If he wakes sooner than 2:30, do PU/PD
CN: 4:30 - This meant to be a short nap of 30/45 minutes. Here I would give yourself a break and use the stroller or carrier. It's a good nap to get out for a bit of fresh air.
BT: It seems like you've done a good job adjusting BT based on how naps went and I would continue to do the same but aiming for no later than 7.

What do you think?

I also recommend reading over the links here: Pick Up/Put Down (PU/PD) - Everything you ever needed to know!

[jhs4ess]

I think I can do PUPD. I've tried sh/pat but it doesn't calm him down from crying. Once he is calm enough lying in his cot I put a hand on his chest and do the shushes. He has mostly napped for 45mins since he was about 2 months old but he wakes up happyish the first time but not the 2nd. I have managed to get him to nap for 1.5-2hours in the afternoon while holding him and rocking him through the transitions.

I don't know if you'll able to respond in time, not sure of the time difference but he has woken up at 6am this morning and I couldn't get him back to sleep so I've got him up when he started to fuss at 6:40 . Would you bring the nap times forward an hour to account for this? If I keep him going to 08:45 he'll just be OT again?

Thanks again.

[lily_layne]

I would put him down half an hour earlier at most. You are trying to set his body clock on teach him when to sleep so shifting times too much will interfere with that.

[jhs4ess]

That's what I did thank you. Both naps yesterday he woke up after 20mins and I couldn't get him back to sleep. This morning I think we've hit regression because it took me about 35mins to get him down and then he woke up after 20mins again. He looked like he was trying to resettle so I left him for 10mins but he started to look like he was getting frustrated so I went in and put my hand on his chest and started shushing but after a couple of minutes he just started playing! Didn't even get the opportunity to do PUPD because he wasn't upset.

I'm really struggling to get him through the day and to stick to the routine because I can't get a decent length sleep out of him. I feel like he's just getting more and more overtired. His nightimes have been more disturbed the last two nights too. 

Any idea where I'm going wrong? Or is it just a case of keeping going?

[jhs4ess]

Just thought I would post our day today in case it is helpful:

WU & E: 07:30
S: PUPD from 09:25 - 09:55 Slept until 10:15 unable to get him back to sleep.
E: 11:30
S: PUPD from 12:30-12:40 Slept until 13:00 unable to get him back to sleep.
S: Took him for a walk for a change of scene to get him to next feed and he fell asleep in pram at 14:30-15:10
E: 15:30
S: 16:30-17:10 in carrier.
Bath: 17:30
E: 18:00
Bedtime: 18:15

[lily_layne]

It is normal for there to be a regression after a few days. How many days have you been doing it now?

I'm not sure if the best course it to keep going as is or try something different. I will ask a few others to come take a look and see what they think.

[jhs4ess]

Today was Day 4. He actually went down OK for the 2nd nap but again woke up early. Although we put him down for bed at 6:15 he didn't manage to get to sleep until 7pm which is unusual. Thank you, I'll await your advice :-)

[jhs4ess]

Just thought i'd post our day today in case it helps. I just carried on with trying to do the routine you suggested, this is what we managed:

Woke up: 06:30
Got him up at: 07:00
E: 07:00
S: 08:30 - 09:00 Went to sleep completely independently within 5 minutes! Unfortunately still woke up 30mins later and couldn't get back to sleep.
E:11:00
S: 12:20-12:40 Again went to sleep completely independently but woke after 20 mins. He tried for 15 mins to get back to sleep. At 12:55 I thought he had actually managed it but at 13:00 he was awake again.
S:14:00-14:40 In pram on a walk.
E 15:00
CN: 16:30-17:00 in carrier.

Bath: 17:30
E:18:00
BT: 18:15 but he didn't manage to get to sleep until 19:30 :-(

I'm hoping he'll actually sleep in until 7am tomorrow morning as its the weekend and my husband won't be getting up early for work and disturbing him.

[lily_layne]

That's great that he went down for his first nap independently. That's good progress!

Have you ever tried wake to sleep? You would go in about 20/25 minutes after he's gone to sleep and wake him a bit. This "resets" the sleep cycle. You can also just try to be there and hold him through any jolts or sh/pat as soon as he starts to wake to try to get him to sleep before he wakes fully.

How dark is his room?