Fighting sleep by standing up

[Bella89]

Hi there,
My DS is 8,5 months. He is on EASY from the start.
Drinks about 30oz of formula a day, has 3 solid meals. I have been watering down his formula at night to cut his last night waking. We are now on 5oz (3 dozes instead of 5, cut it overall also from 7oz). He had 1 night when he slept through the night 2 days ago. I think he is getting use to not eating at night.
Last 2 weeks 2 of his teeth erupted, and he learned how to sit on his own and stand up in the crib. Since then we have been living a nightmare!
He still has pacifier just for sleep. I take it out or he spits it out. He was always a good sleeper. 2 naps 3h overall. I held him in my arms, gave him paci, sang, put in the crib, and he fell asleep holding a tail of his stuffed donkey:) Now, it all changed.
He started refusing his naps, both of them and BT. The same routine, but when I put him down, he is able to stand up 20+ times and I lay him back down. I know he is tired, hiding his head in hands, mantra-cries.
He can wake 4-5 times at night and stand up. After I hold him for a while he falls back to sleep alone in his crib.
EASY:
6:30-7:00 WU
7:15- 7oz of formula
8:30-9:00 solids
10:00 S (today it was 11:00, I had to leave the house, so my mother in law rocked him to sleep)
11:30-12:00 WU and 7oz of formula
1:30 solids
3:00-4:00 S
5:30 WU and 9oz of formula
6:30-7:00 solids and formula top up
7:45 BT
8:30 Asleep

What the heck is going on?
Is he ready to 2:1?
Is he UT/OT? I really think I start putting him down in a good moment.
Is he processing all the milestones and it's the same as when he learned how to roll over?
Do I stay with him when he giggles and smiles or leave the room? Sometimes he throws stuff out of the crib and cries, sometimes bumps his head:/ Then I come in and comfort him.
And finally, what do I do? Do I lay him back down or let him stand, get bored and lay back on his own (I saw him doing that, but it takes longer)

Thank you, I would really appreciate your help :/

[Kellyjs]

We had a really rubbish time at this age wrt sleep too hun. It's like their little brains can't switch off!!

Yes, I do think an element of this is developmental but looking at your routine you could well be heading into 2-1 territory. Not saying he's ready for one nap just yet, for some the transition can take several months. It just means the. A times lengthen too much in order to fit in two decent naps in a day.

Unfortunately if it is developmental there's not much we can do. Saying that, the playing around at nap time could signal a little bit of UT. No, I'd leave him to play around if he's happy. Hopefully extending the A time should help with that. Also as long as he can get back down ans isn't crying I'd leave him to that too. Again, this should get better soon once we work on the routine.

Average A times vary a lot at this age, but I do think you've got room to push that first A a little. Perhaps just by 15mins? Had he always had such a long A to BT? And it is quite a long day overall, how does he do on 10hrs ONS? If this the norm or just recently? Xx

[Bella89]

Today, after lying him down from standing position almost 20 times I just left him be and left the room. He did not cry. I entered after 10 min and he was sitting with his head on the mattress like it just dropped on the bed. So I lied him down on his back and he still sleeps:)
No, the optimum he needs is 11 ONS and 13 h day, but because it takes so long to put him down it gets pushed later and later each day. Maybe I should start bed time eroutine earlier because of that?
Yes, his last A time was alwys the longest, but never that long. Again it's standing up messing his routine.
Today was:
7:15WU
10:30 put him to bed but fell aasleep 11:15
12:40 WU
3:30 started but 4:15 fell asleep
5:30 WU
7 started but 7:45 fell asleep
Thank you

[Bella89]

Another update:)
So I pushed his first A time to 4h and he did that without a problem. Putting him to nap was so much easier.
I seriously think leaving him, even standing up, alone in the room brings better results than putting him down every time he is standing up.

Last 2 nights he is waking 4-5 times at night and falls asleep after I lift him up in cradle position for a while. Except 5am. He wakes up, and just doesn't want to close his eyes Today I knew he was tired, ended up holding him in my bed for 1h and 15min. He would just stand up again.

What do you think I should do at night?
Pick him up/ not pick him up?
He stands there and screams for me, because he can see me sleeping.
Did I just bring AP to the table by holding him at night
I am so confused.

[Kellyjs]

To I don't think you've caused an issue hun. This is all developmental. If you don't want to continue bringing him into your bed though I wouldn't carry on doing it. As Tracy said, don't start something unless you want to carry on 

4-5 times at night could well be discomfort hun. Any teething going on or new foods you've introduced him too lately? Again, this could also be part of the developmental thing as well. My DD went through a terrible time at the age yours is now, in the end pushing the A time and riding it out really helped us.

I would use your words more that this age. In hushed tones as it is night time, lay him back down and say your sleepy phrase like 'it's night time darling, go to sleep'.

The 5am wu could well be indicative of teething or a need to push that first A. As you've only had the one 4hr A first thing, I'd hold that for a couple more days.

I think the routine you posted yesterday looks good. I'm wondering if we should look at capping that last nap a little though? Wdyt? Maybe asleep at 4.15pm for 45mins so awake at 5 so BT can be around 7.30/45, asleep by 8 xx

[Bella89]

No new food, but teething for sure.
I think it's a good idea. And also, if I let him sleep, just like I said on the other post with breakfast/supper question, it is very difficult to fit all the meals into a day.
It all changes so fast I don't keep up with fixing it:]

[Kellyjs]

It's crazy how much it changes doesn't it? Fwiw it really does get better once they are one nap. We had a good year of it being constant (ish). Aside from teething and the developmental stuff of course! Xx

[Bella89]

It is very hard. Issues are only getting worse with us.

Now he can wake up 10 times during the night. Stands up, cries, I pick him up cradle position, put his paci in and he falls asleep. Sometimes he can go 15 min without closing his eyes, sometimes he will shut them instantly.

With his naps, he is now fighting both of them. He seems tired after 3h A time (yawns, rub his eyes) so I put him down. We work on falling asleep for 1h-1,5h. He stands up, I pick him up, paci in, lay him down. He cries and tries to put both his hands in his mouth even if the paci is in. I pick him up, shh/pat and lay him down, leave the room. He cries and the paci and his toy is on the floor. And again and again.

I wish you could tell me if it's teething or paci issues. Do you have any advice?
I seriously doubt it's developmental, because he is standing for 2 full weeks now and I think he gt used to it now. Wdyt?

When he was little we had such good nights. Now, he is 9 months and I am sleepless. I feel like he made that on purpose ;] He is plain mean;)

[Kellyjs]

There is a regression around this age which coincides with a wonder week. Do you follow those at all?

I do think he's ready for quite a push in A time, although waking that number of times during the night would signal discomfort to me. I think you have a bit of both hun.

I would jump the A times straight to 3.5hrs as he's messing around so much. I know he'll show sleepy cues, but tbh I think it's time to push through as it's just causing you both issues isn't it? Xx

[Bella89]

At this point I am willing to try everything. Two days in a row I was not able to put him down for his second nap. Tried Pu/pd for 1.5 with a short break when I took him outside his room (low key time) then fed and bath. Last night he went to bed at 7, it's 5.30 now and he seems liter. I think I will put him down 6.30. I think he is maybe going into 2-1 as well as teething?!
What do you think could be discomfort? Things like cold, wet diaper ?

Hmm, no actually. Do you know when I can read about sleep regressions and wonder week ? I will look for it on the forum but any link would be appreciated Is it in the book?

You are right. I will extend his A time tomorrow to 3.5h minimum.I will let you know how it goes.

Thank you so very much !

[Kellyjs]

I've only seen the SR from posts on here, you'll see loads have posts about sleep issues with this age range. Personally I think it's a need to increase the A time as they seem to need a bigger jump around now. I'll find the link for the wonder weeks for you now. It is an external website but saved my sanity on more than one occasion. Just remember it is from due date and not from birth date to calculate it. http://www.essentialbaby.com.au/baby/baby-stages-of-development/the-wonder-weeks-20120426-1xni4.html

Yes, if you're hitting around 3.5hrs A more likely 4hrs A then 2-1 is definitely on the cards. It doesn't mean he's ready for one nap just yet, just that the A times stretch so much you can fit in two decent naps in one day anymore.

I would try medicating with ibuprofen before his first nap and BT if you can. Some find doing a dream med around 1am helps too, but I could never get that right. Even as a little baby DD always woke for her dreamfeed. In either case the meds at that time used to see her through to wu. You could always do it during a NW 6hrs after the last dose?

Let me know how the increase goes tomorrow xx

Eta and please se don't exhaust yourself with pu/pd for 1.5hrs. If it's not working after say 30mins, just give up, do some low key A time and try again in an hour ok? It will help you and him not get so frustrated. Pu/pd really won't work if the A time isn't right and he'll probably think it's a game  xx

[Bella89]

I think you're right. PU/PD is exhausting when done too long. At one point I didn't know what to do. I knew I reached my limit but was worried when I bring in DH it will make things worse. I think it broke me.
The reason I put him down then was my DH woke me up saying he fell asleep on the swing. He couldn't put him down in the crib becasue he started standing and crying...
It's like he is sending mixed signals

[Bella89]

He woke up 6 times during the night. At 1:30 I fed him (6oz of water, 2 dozes of formula instead of 6, we're watering down).Don't see any improvement on that but he was OT from the day I think. Didn't drain he's BT bottle either.

Today's first A time was 3h 45 min. He fell asleep wey better!!! Our routine is: I am sitting on my bed-lullaby then 3-5 min in quiet in my arms, and I put him to his crib. He closed his eyes as soon as I started singing so I put him down right away. He opened his eyes but fell asleep:)

Could that be a start of AP or are we ok if he falls asleep in his crib?

[Martini~]

Hi Honey. I am frankly speaking thinking AP has a role here, even if that started from wrong/too short A, I would say it's now because of AP. Almost 9mo, you shouldn't do any PU right now, only PD if not GW, if he can sit down by himself. You sticking back his dummy is also a kind of a AP. Can you explain in details step by step your settling process?

[Bella89]

Our routine is: I am sitting on my bed-lullaby then 3-5 min in quiet in my arms, and I put him to his crib.

Falling asleep happened once, I don't rock him to sleep. He usually falls asleep in the crib by himself.
He now stands up few times, so I pick him up and lay on his back again. Should I not pick him up when he is standing? Wdyt?
During the night I put him up cradle position, put his paci back in, lay blanket on him and put him down. Works 5/6 times. 1 time I still have to give him some formula.

Oh, and when I was so happy that he fell asleep he slept for 30min and I could not settle him back to sleep:( I ended up taking him outside in the stroller for his second nap because I was dredding putting him down

I was afraid paci ending is close. My intuition tells me it became a way of dealing with teething for him too